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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:32 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3026
Mickstar wrote:
london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover


Yeah , you can't have everything . Reckon overall he has been a big plus .

:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:33 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
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We gave up a 3rd rounder and aren't paying him much too.

Overall, it's a win.

It's not like we sold the farm to get him like Brock McLean back in the day.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:36 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
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Selection will be a conundrum.

At this stage we've got to make two forced changes, replcing a small defender and a tall forward.

The most like-for-like replacement for Boyd is Docherty, but he's playing well on the wing and I'd be reluctant to move him.
The next cab off the rank would probably be Marchbank, if your philosophy is to replace a defender with another defender (regardless of height). However, the backline mix has been working well, and going a bit taller might not suit us. That leaves Cowan. However, going with Marchbank does give you a bit more flexibility to throw McGovern, Kemp or even Marchy forward in an emergency.

As for replacing Harry, the next tall-forward on the list is... Lemmey. But I'm not sure he's ready to play. You could give him a taste against West Coast, but we're actually looking at a six-week solution, and I'm not sure he's it.

Assuming Owies is fit, then the answer is actually Motlop. Owies didn't lose his place in the side so he's an automatic in and Motlop, the late replacement, is the next most dangerous forward we have. I'm a bit concerned that Motlop kicked four goals on the weekend in a 20 minute burst and was largely unsighted otherwise. And I think he has some pretty serious flaws I his game... AND the forward line wasn't functioning that well when we played he and Owies together earlier in the season... But it would also be hard to drop a kid who just kicked four goals.

However, going properly small in the forward line does put a lot of pressure on Charlie, then Silvagni, then Martin... it has a flow-on effect, and we saw on the weekend the lack of an extra tall target did cause us some conerns kicking down the line and out of defence.

I think the ruck mix is working, and I don't think TDK up forward even 50% of the time is really the right answer. And Pitto has never shown any ability to play anywhere other than the ruck.

So...

OUT: McKay, Boyd
IN: Motlop, Marchbank

B: Newman - Weitering - Saad
HB: Kemp - McGovern - Cincotta
C: Acres - Cripps - Docherty
HF: Walsh - C. Curnow - Martin
F: Owies - Silvagni - Motlop
R: TDK - Cerra - Hewett
INT: Marchbank - Fogarty - Cottrell - Cunningham
Sub: Dow


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Mickstar wrote:
london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover


Yeah , you can't have everything . Reckon overall he has been a big plus .


100%. His kicking is frustrating but he is playing some great football and been a big bonus


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:15 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Melbourne
I'm not sure Owies is an automatic in. He just lacks leg speed and I think its him or Fogerty for the one spot. They are both workers who arent blessed wiith an over-abundance of speed or skill.

If we dont want to move Doc off the wing, then Cowan probably comes in.

I dont think we can go as small as this again so Young comes in and Jack plays as a forward. Young does give some coverage down back too and would allow us to play Gov forward if we wanted to. I think then we have two back up rucks for TDK in Young and Jack.

I watched the WCE game and they were better. Barrass and McGovern will double team Charlie if we dont have another target up there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Narre Warren VIC
Surely its time to bring on Marchbank??? or is he injured again?


He would be perfect replacement for Boyd. Can play tall & Small, not to mention he is a great intercept mark!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:04 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover

I get your point however a HB does the same role just from further in defence.
Using last game as an example, he spent 70% of his time in the defensive half of the ground, his kicking eff. was 52.9%, he had 6 clangers out of 24 disposals (25%) and 10 turnovers in total with an overall disposal eff. of 66.7%, a little more than occasional. And IIRC most of those clangers were in the offensive half of the ground.
His yearly stats are also pretty similar but a bit better.
What was interesting about the last game was he had 0 one percenters and only 7 pressure acts as opposed to Walsh who had 33.
He also had 7 intercept possesions and more kicks than handballs which explains his kicking eff. % drop.
And also IIRC he was prominent in the first quarter and part of the second then went missing until the 4th.

So what do these stats mean to me.
He's already spending most of his game time in the defensive half anyway and a move back a bit further is not that far a stretch to cover Boyd.
He's a defensive type player that is ordinary by foot which is costly at times when he is playing the spacing role, playing off of HB and breaking lines could be the perfect role for him but at the least he could cover Boyd for a couple of games, rather than moving Doc who is better by foot.
His biggest asset is his body size, he's like Crippa with a tank and the same unreliable leg.
Maybe he needs a run in the middle instead with Crippa up forward to replace Harry.

Moving Doc on the other wing has been a revelation for our ball movement because unlike Acres he is better by foot and more dangerous when in the spacing role, has less clangers and turnovers and can still play the defensive sweeping role easily. This has given players like Walsh and Cotts the space to move more into the offensive part of the wing and at contests, either on rotation or coming in from the centre or HF and create better entries into the F50, an area we have been lacking in for a while.

Anyway it's just a suggestion based on stats and the eye test.
FWIW I'd have Acres possibly in the top 10 players at the club, definatley not the top 6 though, that's a bit of a stretch for me.
I know the B&F is more based on consistency and he has been that, so not sure about that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Traveller86 wrote:
We gave up a 3rd rounder and aren't paying him much too.

Overall, it's a win.

It's not like we sold the farm to get him like Brock McLean back in the day.

:lol:
True.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:13 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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PercyJones wrote:
I'm not sure Owies is an automatic in. He just lacks leg speed and I think its him or Fogerty for the one spot. They are both workers who arent blessed wiith an over-abundance of speed or skill.

If we dont want to move Doc off the wing, then Cowan probably comes in.

I dont think we can go as small as this again so Young comes in and Jack plays as a forward. Young does give some coverage down back too and would allow us to play Gov forward if we wanted to. I think then we have two back up rucks for TDK in Young and Jack.

I watched the WCE game and they were better. Barrass and McGovern will double team Charlie if we dont have another target up there.

Fair points.
Especially going too small.
If Owies comes in it's at the expense of Motlop, can't see that happening.
Fog had 23 pressure acts last week and 6 tackles, can't see him being moved on either.
I think they will most likely rest Owies for another week.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Owies is a much better small forward than the rest. He has more impact and is bigger. He has to come in to retake his spot.

Given we are playing West Coast, we can afford to play them all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:22 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
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The key to this game is really to treat it in the same way as we treated the Port game. I get WCE are a basket case but we need to keep the momentum up for this last 6 weeks and I wouldn’t be doing anything that risks our momentum. Percentage could well be a factor against Richmond or Geelong come the end of Rd 24.

Play our best 22 fit players. Don’t rest fit players. If a player is injured or sore to the extent they wouldn’t have played against Port, then don’t play them.

I’d be looking at like for like replacements to the extent possible. Doc is playing well on the wing so I’d be bringing Cowan in for Boyd so as not to upset the structure. I can see arguments for Marchbank too although that makes us pretty tall down back.

The biggest question is how do we replace H. Last year we didn’t replace him with a tall and that worked ok but it puts a huge burden on Charlie. The only like for like replacement on the list is Lemmey and he’s not mature enough to play yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing…


He has been playing wing. Docherty on the other wing with Cottrell as the rotation. Walsh is predominantly playing midfield/half forward

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:34 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Walsh's heat map from last week was centre and wing.
Freo game was Centre and HF/F pocket.
Hawks game was mainly wing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:35 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Agreed with david31 and others: play the best available team, the only concession I'd make for WCE is that if a player is doubtful/playing through injury then "manage" them, but don't rest players pre-emptively. That's what the week before finals is for!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Cripps as sub :lol:

If we are [REDACTED] we bring him on


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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GreatEx wrote:
Agreed with david31 and others: play the best available team, the only concession I'd make for WCE is that if a player is doubtful/playing through injury then "manage" them, but don't rest players pre-emptively. That's what the week before finals is for!


Rest them when the game is out of reach

% is important


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover


You just have to look at CB to see who the starting wings are: Acres and Docherty is pretty obvious.

Easily in out Top 6 imo. Played one bad game in round 1. he was embarrassed into form.

Such a strong body and runs all day. Has a great defensive mindset, and love the way he runs through traffic brushing off hands.

Despite his clangers by foot, he's so valuable. As long as his clangers are not in the backline, we are fine. hence, no thanks Acres at HBF.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:19 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
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Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
david31 wrote:
The key to this game is really to treat it in the same way as we treated the Port game. I get WCE are a basket case but we need to keep the momentum up for this last 6 weeks and I wouldn’t be doing anything that risks our momentum. Percentage could well be a factor against Richmond or Geelong come the end of Rd 24.

Play our best 22 fit players. Don’t rest fit players. If a player is injured or sore to the extent they wouldn’t have played against Port, then don’t play them.

I’d be looking at like for like replacements to the extent possible. Doc is playing well on the wing so I’d be bringing Cowan in for Boyd so as not to upset the structure. I can see arguments for Marchbank too although that makes us pretty tall down back.

The biggest question is how do we replace H. Last year we didn’t replace him with a tall and that worked ok but it puts a huge burden on Charlie. The only like for like replacement on the list is Lemmey and he’s not mature enough to play yet.

Cripps is KP size so play him forward and give him a chance to sharpen up his goal kicking. It will also take some of the mid field stress out of his game hopefully. Being a bull he will take pressure off Charlie.

Keep Dow to replace Cripps as an inside mid.

Cowan to replace Boyd if necessary.

Binns in simply to see what he can do.

No to Pittonet as an old fashioned slow lumbering ruck he is not suited to our new style.

Smallish team so Marchbank as sub.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:23 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is a much better small forward than the rest. He has more impact and is bigger. He has to come in to retake his spot.

Given we are playing West Coast, we can afford to play them all.


I agree.

I thought it was surprisng and great Motlop kicked the 4 goals being in the right spot. Something that hasnt been 'normal' to happen for him over the last 2 months.. he's doing his apprenticeship.

Couldnt care if Motlop is retained for Eagles and Owies rested, but FP is Owies for consistency.

I wouldnt want young Motlop or Durdin playing against Pies in a fortnight. They are very physical and defensively minded.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is a much better small forward than the rest. .
.

Might be true but equally I cannot ever see him snagging 4 in a half

Motlop and Little Durds should go past him in the next 2 years

You are right in so far as he has runs on the board and is our most consistent small forward but it is hard to drop a guy who kicked 4 in a half to help set up a win against the second team on the ladder

Good problem to have though


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