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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Young should not play back under any circumstance.

Our back line has performed superbly without him.

Weitering is back to his absolute best.

Why play with what has improved since he left?

Ok, well somebody will have to give Weiters the heads up that, come Saturday night, he’ll be shit again and we should trade him. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Young should not play back under any circumstance.

Our back line has performed superbly without him.

Weitering is back to his absolute best.

Why play with what has improved since he left?


You seem to be blaming Weitering's form on Young. Is that right?

I know Young's shortfalls at a backman. But dropping Young from the backline isn't the reason for our recent improvement.

Whilst the backline has been good recently, I'd like to remind everyone that our backline hasn't been the problem this year.
Our mids leaked like a sieve and the onslaught the backs faced was not their doing. Have a look at the recent change in attitude from our midfield group, and in particular Cripps. He is playing team first footy, bringing in other players and the whole midfield group is playing selfless and great defensive footy. That alone improved us more than Young does and doesn't do.

Not only that, in the last few weeks we have seen the introduction of 3 new forwards: Fogarty, Cuningham and Martin.
I dont know anyone who suggests they haven't made a huge difference to our team. I'm sure those changes have had a lot more to do with our change in fortunes than Young. Getting rid of the fan faves, the midgets who were not contributing enough, Fisher Motlop and Durdin, has had a bigger impact on our change of fortune than Young and the backline.

And Harry and Charlie have changed with their 'team first' footy, looking for players in better spots to shoot for goal instead of pinging them from difficult angles and kicking more behinds than any other players in the comp. Ive also noted, like others, Harry's newfound confidence. Kicking winning scores has been the big difference. Our backline is still the 4th best in the AFL, with or without Young.

I want to defend Young, because he's still young, who lost a bit of form, a ong with confidence after facing a barrage in the backline most of the year because of an out of form or selfish midfield group, and isnt as useless as some think. I don't want Young to be a whipping boy aged 23yo. He hasn't been the problem.

Cincotta has pushed out Cowan at HBF. I wouldnt mind either. Cincotta's running is what we expected from Cowan and that will come. In fact Cowan's found his mojo in the VFL.
Boyd has filled the role Williams would be playing, but has also freed up Doc. He was always in many Best 22 teams at the start of the season.

Lets face it, the only change of note to the backline has been Kemp replacing Young. That's it. Kemp played well in GCS game, OK in another couple, but if all his panic stricken moments (like Young), clangers and kicks to the opposition were committed by Young, its really obvious you wouldn't hear the end of it. Does anyone remember the Sydney game with Kemp as the 3rd tall? We lost that game because of bad kicking by the forwards, but we also let the Swans big boys off the leash to kick 4 goals.

IMO, the omission of Young from the backline, for Kemp is not the reason for our wins. Both are young players learning their craft. I'm happy to be trying things, and imo Kemp, like Young is on trial. Kemp has only played 8 games, so for me, the jury is still out. Like it is with Cowan, and Young. Kemp will be reminded what its like to be playing against huge forwards this week, if Port win the midfield battle.

For me, Young is much taller than Kemp, and with that there's advantages. Young is the better mark, but doesn't take the game on and plays it safe (high efficiency, slow decisions), whereas, Kemp is more mobile and is a risk taker. He takes the game on and hits the opposition with his kicking too often for my liking, (turnovers in our defensive half) but he's still young. Both offer positives and negatives. Neither is a star. Neither are the reason for our recent improvement imo. Wouldn't make a difference to me which was selected TBH.

Lets win the midfield battle. Kennedy will be a huge loss.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:07 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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17th Premiership wrote:
Also we are getting rid of the ball really fast. A number of times in the past few weeks I was sure we were about to be caught by an (unseen) opposition player but then our guy handballs or kicks.


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THIS!

This is the biggest change I have seen in the last few weeks.

Speed of hand and connectivity ... with momentum heading forward.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:31 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Living in hope.

Go Blues! :mad:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
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Weitering plays his 150th game this week, hope he goes well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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We will either win or get our pants pulled down.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:47 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Weitering said in his presser

Quote:
“Brodie Kemp, he’s probably a bit undersized to be playing a key position but he’s certainly held his own the last four weeks.


Quote:
“Mitch McGovern is playing consistent football, guys like Jordan Boyd and Alex Cincotta who people didn’t really know much until they came into the side and they’re doing an unbelievable job for us – I’m really proud of the backline and they’re standing tall.”


Quote:
With the likes of Jack Silvagni and Lewis Young in the ruck and Brodie Kemp putting his body on the line in defence, Weitering lauded his teammates for coming in and playing a role – no matter the position or circumstances.

Being able to build strong synergy with the same players week in and week out has been a big positive for Weitering, who is relishing the chance to get back to what he does best in the defensive 50.

“We’ve had some role players come in like Lewis Young and Jack Silvagni, just doing their job for us and it’s been really good,” he said.


https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1378207/-we-never-lost-confidence-weitering-assured-ahead-of-game-150

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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BigBlueWave wrote:
Living in hope.

Go Blues! :mad:



Belief more than hope BBW.

But lets hope for the best. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:35 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Quote:
This belief [Carlton have turned the corner] is based on an offensive resurgence. Where, through rounds 8-13 they ranked 17th for scores inside 50 and 18th for goals per inside 50, they are now second and first respectively over their past three games. They have surged from 15th for marks inside 50 to equal fourth, the flow on being a lift from 15th to third for shots at goal.
But what has really buoyed spirits is a sudden ability to convert. Through rounds 8-13, they were 18th for shots and set shots at goal accuracy. In a dramatic turnaround, they now rank third in both categories.
Carlton’s resurgence

Rnds 8-13 Rank Rnds 14-17 Rank
Inside-50s 50.3 13th 56.3 8th
Marks inside 50 10.0 15th 15.3 =4th
Scores per inside 50 % 38.7 17th 50.3 2nd
Goals per inside 50 % 14.6 18th 29.0 1st
Shots at goal 21.7 =15th 30.7 3rd
Points 56.2 17th 110.0 1st
Shot at goal accuracy % 33.8 18th 53.3 3rd
Set shot scoring accuracy % 47.4 18th 72.7 3rd
Source: Champion Data

“We just looked at, a lot of teams are trying to play the game in their front half, and spending more time in your front half is ideal,” Weitering said.
“And probably shot quality as well. We just want to get it to guys in better positions where it’s 30 metres out in front or 40m out in front, as opposed to 45m out on the boundary. We are just trying to get guys playing a front half game, intercepting from the defence as well, is a big part of that.”


Quote:
Collingwood great Nathan Buckley, who said in the pre-season he did not expect the Blues to break their decade-long finals drought, has also noticed other key contributions.
“The ins that have come in, [Jack] Martin has been significant because he’s a gap between their talls in Curnow and McKay and their smalls. I think he and [Jack] Silvagni have been impact really impactful in that last little period,” Buckley told SEN.


https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-stats-that-show-why-the-blues-are-back-in-the-finals-hunt-20230710-p5dn6y.html

Prior to our recent wins we were 18th for goals per inside 50. Now we are 1st.
We were getting it i50 but not converting. The backline was not our problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm worried about Powell pepper. Having a brilliant season

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:30 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
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A poster on BF says;
MGovern unlikely at this stage
No Kennedy
TDK back.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
CK95 wrote:
I'm worried about Powell pepper. Having a brilliant season

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Been playing largely as a defensive forward so expecting him to go to Saad and try to nullify him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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How many vfl games has Marchbank played?

If 3, then I suspect he might come in for McGovern. Port has some talls with Finlayson, Marshall and Dixon.

Weitering/Dixon, Marchbank/Marshall, Kemp/Findlayson, Cincotta/Powell.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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McGovern would have been good for Finlayson. But as said above, doubt he'll play

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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bondiblue wrote:
For me, Young is much taller than Kemp, and with that there's advantages. Young is the better mark, but doesn't take the game on and plays it safe (high efficiency, slow decisions), whereas, Kemp is more mobile and is a risk taker. He takes the game on and hits the opposition with his kicking too often for my liking, (turnovers in our defensive half) but he's still young. Both offer positives and negatives. Neither is a star. Neither are the reason for our recent improvement imo. Wouldn't make a difference to me which was selected TBH.

Lets win the midfield battle. Kennedy will be a huge loss.


I agree with most of your assessment. I see Kemp becoming a top line player. I still believe he can play further up the ground. I saw him play mid as a junior and he was elite before he did his knee. This is the first time he has been fully fit and getting consistent games since being recruited

As for Young I have my doubts. Lacks agility and is slow with ball in hand. I think he is a handy back up as he can play several roles but has too many flaws to be a consistent best 22 player. I believe he disrupted the flow and teamwork of our backline. Not the reason we have improved but it has defintely helped. Our backline is working so well as a group now. I sadi it early this year but during the pre season Durdin was miles ahead of him. Just a pity he gets injured

I think this is the reason we are looking at Himmelberg McKay Barras etc as options


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:02 pm 
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Robert Walls
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FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
For me, Young is much taller than Kemp, and with that there's advantages. Young is the better mark, but doesn't take the game on and plays it safe (high efficiency, slow decisions), whereas, Kemp is more mobile and is a risk taker. He takes the game on and hits the opposition with his kicking too often for my liking, (turnovers in our defensive half) but he's still young. Both offer positives and negatives. Neither is a star. Neither are the reason for our recent improvement imo. Wouldn't make a difference to me which was selected TBH.

Lets win the midfield battle. Kennedy will be a huge loss.


I agree with most of your assessment. I see Kemp becoming a top line player. I still believe he can play further up the ground. I saw him play mid as a junior and he was elite before he did his knee. This is the first time he has been fully fit and getting consistent games since being recruited

As for Young I have my doubts. Lacks agility and is slow with ball in hand. I think he is a handy back up as he can play several roles but has too many flaws to be a consistent best 22 player. I believe he disrupted the flow and teamwork of our backline. Not the reason we have improved but it has defintely helped. Our backline is working so well as a group now. I sadi it early this year but during the pre season Durdin was miles ahead of him. Just a pity he gets injured

I think this is the reason we are looking at Himmelberg McKay Barras etc as options



Agree with you 100% FB.

I was a big fan of Young last year and certainly haven't written him off yet, but he really needs to work on his strength, agility and decision-making. Luckily he has time on his side and it is not too late for him.

Much happier having Kemp in the back 6 at the moment. He fits with what we are trying to achieve with fast ball movement.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:23 pm 
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Robert Walls
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bondiblue wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Young should not play back under any circumstance.

Our back line has performed superbly without him.

Weitering is back to his absolute best.

Why play with what has improved since he left?


You seem to be blaming Weitering's form on Young. Is that right?

I know Young's shortfalls at a backman. But dropping Young from the backline isn't the reason for our recent improvement.

Whilst the backline has been good recently, I'd like to remind everyone that our backline hasn't been the problem this year.
Our mids leaked like a sieve and the onslaught the backs faced was not their doing. Have a look at the recent change in attitude from our midfield group, and in particular Cripps. He is playing team first footy, bringing in other players and the whole midfield group is playing selfless and great defensive footy. That alone improved us more than Young does and doesn't do.

Not only that, in the last few weeks we have seen the introduction of 3 new forwards: Fogarty, Cuningham and Martin.
I dont know anyone who suggests they haven't made a huge difference to our team. I'm sure those changes have had a lot more to do with our change in fortunes than Young. Getting rid of the fan faves, the midgets who were not contributing enough, Fisher Motlop and Durdin, has had a bigger impact on our change of fortune than Young and the backline.

And Harry and Charlie have changed with their 'team first' footy, looking for players in better spots to shoot for goal instead of pinging them from difficult angles and kicking more behinds than any other players in the comp. Ive also noted, like others, Harry's newfound confidence. Kicking winning scores has been the big difference. Our backline is still the 4th best in the AFL, with or without Young.

I want to defend Young, because he's still young, who lost a bit of form, a ong with confidence after facing a barrage in the backline most of the year because of an out of form or selfish midfield group, and isnt as useless as some think. I don't want Young to be a whipping boy aged 23yo. He hasn't been the problem.

Cincotta has pushed out Cowan at HBF. I wouldnt mind either. Cincotta's running is what we expected from Cowan and that will come. In fact Cowan's found his mojo in the VFL.
Boyd has filled the role Williams would be playing, but has also freed up Doc. He was always in many Best 22 teams at the start of the season.

Lets face it, the only change of note to the backline has been Kemp replacing Young. That's it. Kemp played well in GCS game, OK in another couple, but if all his panic stricken moments (like Young), clangers and kicks to the opposition were committed by Young, its really obvious you wouldn't hear the end of it. Does anyone remember the Sydney game with Kemp as the 3rd tall? We lost that game because of bad kicking by the forwards, but we also let the Swans big boys off the leash to kick 4 goals.

IMO, the omission of Young from the backline, for Kemp is not the reason for our wins. Both are young players learning their craft. I'm happy to be trying things, and imo Kemp, like Young is on trial. Kemp has only played 8 games, so for me, the jury is still out. Like it is with Cowan, and Young. Kemp will be reminded what its like to be playing against huge forwards this week, if Port win the midfield battle.

For me, Young is much taller than Kemp, and with that there's advantages. Young is the better mark, but doesn't take the game on and plays it safe (high efficiency, slow decisions), whereas, Kemp is more mobile and is a risk taker. He takes the game on and hits the opposition with his kicking too often for my liking, (turnovers in our defensive half) but he's still young. Both offer positives and negatives. Neither is a star. Neither are the reason for our recent improvement imo. Wouldn't make a difference to me which was selected TBH.


Lets win the midfield battle. Kennedy will be a huge loss.


Good post for the most part Bondi, but I disagree wholeheartedly with the highlighted section.

Kemp's addition to the team has been a breath of fresh air and has added much-needed drive from the back half. His willingness to take the game on with quick decision making, run and carry has been a real highlight for me this year. It has sped up our D50 exits massively compared to Young's "safely, safely" approach. Kemp also seems to work a lot better in tandem with Weitering to allow him to take incept marks, whereas Young spoils at every opportunity and quite often gets in Weitering's way. Yes, Young is a better mark and better spoiler than Kemp, but that is about where it ends.

You seem to be suggesting that Kemp is a turnover merchant, yet the stats don't appear to back that up. Kemp has a slightly higher kicking efficiency (72.4% vs 72.1%), they average the same number of clangers (2.4/game) and Kemp averages one more turnover (3.5 vs 2.5/game). Given that Kemp averages more possessions per game (16.4 vs 13.9) and is by far the bigger risk-taker, I would say that he wins in the stats department overall.

I am not writing Young off by any means, but Kemp has a very high ceiling and will only get better after only 8 senior games. Young has known deficiencies that he needs to work on in order to force his way back into the defensive structure IMO. Maybe we would be better off working on his ruck craft?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
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Agree with Mil Kempy had been impressive yes makes a few mistakes but takes the game on

Is a good size and has pace will only get better and is a very good mark

Disposal is a lot better than young who I also like but not much surety when the ball is in hand
Will be much better our backline when he boyd and sink play more games


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:41 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
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Also maybe Im getting old and yes crabby but dont get the love for Marchbank I certainly wouldnt be promoting him needs to show at least some durability in the vfl and good form in the vfl
Can only remember one really outstanding game when he played on the wing
Certainly in limited senior games last year he was no where near the way Kemp has been playing this year and certainly should not dislodge Young from the team
I thought it was a mistake to bring him back last year


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Young is 24, he's been in the system for 7 years.
Harldy learning his craft.
I'd rather him in the ruck or in the 2s at the moment.
I'd prefer JSOS in McLovin role and TDK sharing ruck with Young though, if TDK is good to go.

Kemp has been a welcomed surprise for me and great for ball movement out of defence.
Yes, he makes mistakes but not our worst.
If we want to start judging players on disposal quality, look no further than "Moon Ball" Acres.
Kicking eff. - 65.1%, Clangers - 3.9/game, Turnovers 4.7/game.


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