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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1071
club29 wrote:
The players have seen off countless coaches (assistants included). Our problem isnt the coaches it is the list managers. We don't have enough talent spread across the team.
Even our good players lack the ability to be super fit, elite runners, skilled in kicking, skilled in decision making, follow a plan, gain confidence, stay confident and have the want to win.
We bring in the wrong players.

The coaches do get caught up coaching around these deficiencies in the list. Playing the hand they are dealt. But I wouldn't be changing coaches without doing a massive list redesign.


This. Doesn't matter how you cook your sausages they are still (very ordinary) sausages.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:03 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 258
Location: melborne
billc3 wrote:
Smothers....
We were continually having kicks and handballs smothered...
I think we smothered one of theirs...
Tells us about the delay in releasing as players TRY to decide what to do...

Dumb strategies stuck with all night... Especially in the last??

Players tentative and making dumb decisions
We played better against Brisbane and Collingwood because we had to account for what they would do... Clearly we thought we don't have to worry about what Sydney (Saints, Dogs ) would do because we're better than them.... :slapshead:

Coaching staff haven't worked out it is easier to counter something you know is going to happen...

Don't FN mention inside 50 stats... The way we are getting them makes them irrelevant

Still too POed to get into the analysis

Go Blues!

I agree so many smothers of our kicks and handballs! Fair chance it comes down to we don’t train with enough defensive intensity….


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:56 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10059
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Your assessment is interesting and undeniable incorrect.
Have you even watched these guys play for the other teams. Blind Freddy can see they can play and that we have NFI. Maybe switch on watch the 2nd half of the Hawthorn V StKilda game. Might help.

Actually I forgot, you’re happy with our top 10 Saad trade. I’ll let it be.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Looks to me more a cultural/development issue. Players that leave us seem to improve almost immediately

How many of our players have improved this year?


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:56 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 233
sos f...k.. our club have said this many times all those poor selections has set us backwards ,our overrated list is not good enough simple and we need to trade /recruit well hopefully Austin can nail some players .
I knew we are stuffed 1 during practice games i saw nothing different from 22 season 2 against Roos when they kicked last 4 straight goals


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 4:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2076
Location: Melbourne
Maybe this will help with our feeling of perennial disappointment:

https://www.wikihow.com/Cope-when-Your- ... Team-Loses

Quote: "Call your friends who are also fans to let off steam and cope with the disappointment of a losing team. Consider joining a fan club or online forums to talk more about your disappointment and even brainstorm ways to fix what went wrong. If you are going to suffer, it’s better to do so with other fans."
Go Blues!
I wish it was only a game :smoking:

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 4:40 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7778
Pros:

Were the better team for 3 1/2 quarters. But you can't win, if you can't kick more than 6 or 7 goals.
Weiters, Walsh, McGovern.
Charlie was fantastic in the air, but his kicking was rubbish.
Liked the game of Boyd and Cottrell. They're the future.
Got a bit more rebound from Saad.
Motlop was in the play a lot. But he gets tackled a lot. It's a problem that 2 of our 3 small forwards aren't quick.

Cons:

General lack of confidence.
Terrible set shot finishing again.
Hammered at centre bounces again. It's become a real problem this year.
Unwillingness of our forwards to contest in the last quarter when out of position.
Injuries and bad bounces.
I thought Harry might have turned the corner last week. But his goalkicking was back to its horrible worst. By the end of the game, it looked like he didn't want to get it anymore.
Why do we keep playing Kennedy at half back?
Durdin and Owies.
Stack of others who under contributed. Like Kemp, TDK, Hewett (before his injury), Hollands, Kennedy, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2032
I didn’t see the match, but going by the comments it looks like the forward entries is the key problem.

Maybe instead of the bombing long option.. which is being swallowed up by defenders… they need to get 15 m marks to forwards leading 45 m out.
Both Curnow and McKay are good at that range.
Is OBrien good for these small kicks to leading forwards?

To get over the depression there is a way out!
Support Carlton in the VFL.
They have a good chance of playing finals. (Top 10 in the VFL)
The last finals match I went to was way back in 2013..,
A long time ago.

I don’t even watch other AFL teams anymore.
Last non-Carlton match I partly watched was Bulldogs vs Port rd5.
Just going to watch the VFL from now on. Not any AFL.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Your assessment is interesting and undeniable incorrect.
Have you even watched these guys play for the other teams. Blind Freddy can see they can play and that we have NFI. Maybe switch on watch the 2nd half of the Hawthorn V StKilda game. Might help.

Actually I forgot, you’re happy with our top 10 Saad trade. I’ll let it be.


Look I'm upset with the loss. I wasn't last night, because I had good company and plenty to drink, but I am appalled today. Everyone is.

Your attack on the poster isn't making me feel better. No need to be a smartarse surrey.
Capiche

Sorry, I dont get the Saad slur. But FFS keep it civil.

You have missed my point about first rounders.

Clarkson built his Hawks dynasty with kids who had great skills.

Now remember, I'm not writing about you, or calling you a dill. I'm making a point about our playing group and the bloke who put it together. I'm not the first. I responded. You missed the point. You dont like it? Leave it at that. Simple.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Looks to me more a cultural/development issue. Players that leave us seem to improve almost immediately

How many of our players have improved this year?


I think there is something amiss at Carlton. But these blokes haven't improved. They are the same good players. Setters probably getting more time, and Stocker did something about his attitude towards fitness.

I thought Setterfield and Stocker were good players. I expected more from them being first rounders. They didnt look like first rounders when at carlton, and I still think they are good players and still dont look like first rounders and imo not much better players now than when at Carlton TBH. Lets not all of the sudden call a Back Pocket player a star till he is. Neither are stars. They are solid citizens.

Why we've ended up with umteen inside mids all picked by SOS? Coz he didnt have faith in his judgement the first, second, third.....time?

Something not right with his philosophy and SPS isn't a star. He was pick 6. LOB isnt a star he's pick 10......its been discussed adnauseum.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1890
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Looks to me more a cultural/development issue. Players that leave us seem to improve almost immediately

How many of our players have improved this year?


I think there is something amiss at Carlton. But these blokes haven't improved. They are the same good players. Setters probably getting more time, and Stocker did something about his attitude towards fitness.

I thought Setterfield and Stocker were good players. I expected more from them being first rounders. They didnt look like first rounders when at carlton, and I still think they are good players and still dont look like first rounders and imo not much better players now than when at Carlton TBH. Lets not all of the sudden call a Back Pocket player a star till he is. Neither are stars. They are solid citizens.

Why we've ended up with umteen inside mids all picked by SOS? Coz he didnt have faith in his judgement the first, second, third.....time?

Something not right with his philosophy and SPS isn't a star. He was pick 6. LOB isnt a star he's pick 10......its been discussed adnauseum.


I have said previously but those early draft pick midfield misses from SOS was our biggest downfall in terms of a rebuild that gets us into contention.

We implemented a scorched earth policy with our gutting of the list and was heavily reliant on nailing those picks in the draft

Add poor player development and I think we are currently in no man's land


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:15 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:30 pm
Posts: 3946
Charlie’s mark on his back and then having a laugh when he got up to kick it and then spraying the kick is Carlton thru and thru. Play and think they are millionaires but are really paupers.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:45 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 865
Stefchook wrote:
Pros:

Were the better team for 3 1/2 quarters. But you can't win, if you can't kick more than 6 or 7 goals.
Weiters, Walsh, McGovern.
Charlie was fantastic in the air, but his kicking was rubbish.
Liked the game of Boyd and Cottrell. They're the future.
Got a bit more rebound from Saad.
Motlop was in the play a lot. But he gets tackled a lot. It's a problem that 2 of our 3 small forwards aren't quick.

Cons:

General lack of confidence.
Terrible set shot finishing again.
Hammered at centre bounces again. It's become a real problem this year.
Unwillingness of our forwards to contest in the last quarter when out of position.
Injuries and bad bounces.
I thought Harry might have turned the corner last week. But his goalkicking was back to its horrible worst. By the end of the game, it looked like he didn't want to get it anymore.
Why do we keep playing Kennedy at half back?
Durdin and Owies.
Stack of others who under contributed. Like Kemp, TDK, Hewett (before his injury), Hollands, Kennedy, etc.
Balanced and thoughtful.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:47 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 865
Sydney Blue wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
We have a good enough list to follow a game plan, it’s obvious that either the game plan is rubbish, or it’s too difficult to follow.
Do you think for one minute that as a collective the players rejected the game plan and started playing good football and winning games that Voss would reprimand them.

This what we are seeing is poor execution poor skill and a complete lack of confidence and the ability to handle expectations

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I agree with this.
If the players executed properly last night we would have won comfortably.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:51 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 865
keogh wrote:
Teams do not give Cripps any space
If Cripps doesn’t have possession it’s off to the races

He needs a change of scenery
Our best player is wasted up forward
Swap their roles
Saad is tagged every week
So give him a different role
Play him
As a mid or wing
Last night Papley played as a mid
Other teams mix it up
We don’t
Play Kennedy up forward
I would like to see DeKoning down back
Bring Dow in to play mid on the basis he simply deserves it
Play Binns instead of Acres
I would like to see Owies in the middle and Durdin

The worry with Voss is he is obviously stubborn
Like Teague
We weren't far from clicking in the first half. But now the prospect of finals is fading fast I'm in favour of some creative adjustments, such as Keogh suggests.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:06 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2582
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Setterfield and Stocker say hello. Others like TDK, Dow, JSoS, etc. will follow and thrive.


Rebuild started in 2015. Its now 2023. What have we got to show for it?

Stocker :lol: Round 1 pick for a Back Pocket.

Setterfield :lol: round 1 pick for a hot n cold 3rd string medfielder

We got rid of them for a reason.

Dow :lol: round 1 pick for a butcher

JSOS was a Father Son. SOS didnt pick him

TDK :lol: He's not a good mark, not a good kick, hasn't made it, may improve, and I don't think he will be a star. He's tall. I know Kane Cornes rates him.

You're happy with SOS selections. That's OK. I'm not at present. Happy as a funeral.


Your assessment is interesting and undeniable incorrect.
Have you even watched these guys play for the other teams. Blind Freddy can see they can play and that we have NFI. Maybe switch on watch the 2nd half of the Hawthorn V StKilda game. Might help.

Actually I forgot, you’re happy with our top 10 Saad trade. I’ll let it be.


Look I'm upset with the loss. I wasn't last night, because I had good company and plenty to drink, but I am appalled today. Everyone is.

Your attack on the poster isn't making me feel better. No need to be a smartarse surrey.
Capiche

Sorry, I dont get the Saad slur. But FFS keep it civil.

You have missed my point about first rounders.

Clarkson built his Hawks dynasty with kids who had great skills.

Now remember, I'm not writing about you, or calling you a dill. I'm making a point about our playing group and the bloke who put it together. I'm not the first. I responded. You missed the point. You dont like it? Leave it at that. Simple.



Yep no need to turn on each other we are all hurting.
Personally i think it's a combination of issues.
The players and pick that we have targeted have been very average but afterwards our development of these players as a whole has been well mismanaged along with years of confusing gameplans, structures and selections.
How many times have we been perplexed by these decisions.
We won't get anywhere until we get a focused and tough coach like a Ferguson, Belichick or something of that ilk.
Just my 2 cents


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: threeohfivethree
Take out the West Coast game and our percentage is 83.47.

We officially suck.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:53 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
When you invite a Carlton forward over for dinner.....lol.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:54 pm 
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John James
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 638
Keithy wrote:
Where do you start

Playing Kennedy in the backline 3 or 4 times this year and has played poorly when in the midfield we are a lot better

Doc in the midfield simply isn’t working so why persistently go with it maybe should be played on a wing

Why was Harry deep forward all night and Charlie further up should have been swapped need Charlie closer to goal

Our small forwards have absolutely no idea you very rarely see them crumbing at the front hitting it with pace they are always caught underneath our tall forwards

How we ever chased Acres is beyond me he no good at all slow / poor decision maker / turnover king should be dropped for good

Why we gave Pitto 4 years is a joke he is just a tap ruckman who has no influence whatsoever

None selection of player who’s form in the VFL warrant selection is a joke all Voss is doing is making himself look stupid for not playing them

And Voss game plan is like watching football from the 1980 just kick it long

We are the laughing stock of the AFL thanks to voss and the poor standards of football club has

I’m done watching them and no more membership for me


The Dogs game I think it was, he gifted them the first goal of the game with a turnover, continuing on from the previous week, and that was the only moment in my long years of attending Carlton games that I considered leaving after a few minutes of play. I stayed until the bitter end but it didn't get much better. That moment epitomised for me the inability of some of our supposedly better players to learn anything of their foibles or work on them. Acres has been a particularly huge disappointment for me. He starred against West Coast but really...who hasn't lately?

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