TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)

Hornet wrote:

You kick one goal in a half of football... under a closed roof... you get what you deserve.

I read in the game thread that the coach deserves credit for the changes after half time... well, who gets the credit for the first?

We lost the 1st half by 18 points
We lost the 2nd half by 2 points

Yeah right...winning changes. Thanks Vossy. Revolutionary. :roll:

Brad Lloyd on 3AW

Tough night to score
Didn't capitalise on work
Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on
McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking
Missing too many targets
Ball movement improved last night
Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else
Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals
Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition
Understand supporter frustration
Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve
People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape
Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field
Club needs to stay united

Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician
Mumbled a lot

Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems

Brad Lloyd on 3AW

Tough night to score : was it 21 inside 50s in the first half or was it the first quarter. Regardless 1 goal in a half is completely unacceptable
Didn't capitalise on work
Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on
McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking If thats the case the either the work he is putting in isnt effective, the forward coach isnt helping and his confidence is completely shot. Maybe its all three?
Missing too many targets
Ball movement improved last night
Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else No need? So the club is happy to accept the sheer incompetence of his coaching because there has not been any improvement
Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals His comments were fine? Another clear example that not only do the players accept mediocrity the clubs board does to.
Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition Reviews? If they are happening then there has not been any proactive action to fix execution.
Understand supporter frustration
Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve
People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape Another example of accepting mediocrity
Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field There has been no evidence of a united or connected playing group. Thats a FACT Brad.
Club needs to stay united

Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician
Mumbled a lot

Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems

bondiblue wrote:

Hornet wrote:

We lost the 1st half by 18 points
We lost the 2nd half by 2 points

Yeah right...winning changes. Thanks Vossy. Revolutionary. :roll:

You're usually the beacon of positivity BB.

FWIW, I actually thought Motlop was good and I really didn't expect Cripps to kick a banana on his non preferred - hard pressed getting him to kick straight directly in front.

Too many wrote off Ross Lyon as being a has-been. They also didn't like his negative game style or demeanour in press conferences. I wanted him (but we'll never know whether that would've been the right decision) and I feel we'd be happier with our players executing his defensive mindset than generally playing with a sense of malaise, complacency or being generous just a lack of confidence. At least for mine, if he was coach in our current predicament I also feel his press conferences would be based more in reality and connect with our supporter base than Voss' who's disingenuously positive demeanour (until today) seems more akin to a reformed thug that's found Jesus or someone heavily medicated on SSRI's (and I'm not making fun of the latter).

We are a basket case. To me we seem reflective of our day and age where getting participation trophies are akin to real success. We seem like a club that puts more emphasis on social justice than the bottom line, which is actually winning - you can't achieve any ESG quotas if you're not profitable. This is the age where meanings and terminologies are redefined and those with little knowledge of history and experience think they know better - like kicking around the corner and managing with kid gloves (no determination to implement consequences). Sure it's a longbow.

Anyhow, I'm queuing Blue Vain for a comprehensive post on this game and a long overdue multi-paragraph analysis or where we sit as a club and what the light at the end of the tunnel might entail. I'm all but lost.

Stefchook wrote:

Cons

Acres, Motlop, Cripps, Cincotta, McGovern, Hewett, Durdin, JOS.

Got shot down a couple weeks ago when I agreed with another poster that Motlop isnt an auto selection, because his form had been flakey the previous 2 weeks in a forwardline full of midgets.

Getting rid of one midget, Fisher, didnt go far enough. Two midgets is plenty.

Apart from that one super tackle last night, Motlop had 8 disposals an 50% Def.

FF Owies
CHF Durdin

Enough is enough with the midgets. They are not marking forwards.

Cripps, Harry and jack kicking for goal is C Grade. They are full time footballers. WTF.

wasthesonofapreacherman wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

Hornet wrote:

We lost the 1st half by 18 points
We lost the 2nd half by 2 points

Yeah right...winning changes. Thanks Vossy. Revolutionary. :roll:

Yeah Motlops 8 touches and no goals were great

How about his handball late to the opposition

Bravo

not good enough simple,forget all the excuses the players not good enough .

jpulice1969 wrote:

not good enough simple,forget all the excuses the players not good enough .

I just need to ask, anyone specific?

The criticism of Cripps is partially justified
I haven’t rated him as a captain

Too much one of the boys but some of this talk about him on this site is over the top

Imagine if he wasn’t with us the last 9 years
The guy has a go every week

The thing is opposition clubs have figured him out
Sit on him in the context
Once the ball is out in opposition hands he is a non factor

It’s obvious that he needs a role change
Swap Charlie and Cripps
Play McKay deep Cripps to play forward

Opposition teams have worked out Saad too
So play him
On a wing
Voss has to change these 2 guys roles in the team
Play Durdin in the middle for periods
Even Owies who I have always said would make a reasonable mid
De Koning to play ruck
Carroll and Binns to play
Carrol to play wing
Play Binns as a sub
Kemp to play defence
Playing Cerra at HB and Ed as a sub is stupid
Our midfield is vanilla
One has to go
Hewett goes to the magoos

Voss needs to have the balls to change things

Author:	wasthesonofapreacherman [ Sun May 14, 2023 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
bondiblue wrote: Hornet wrote: You kick one goal in a half of football... under a closed roof... you get what you deserve. I read in the game thread that the coach deserves credit for the changes after half time... well, who gets the credit for the first? We lost the 1st half by 18 points We lost the 2nd half by 2 points Yeah right...winning changes. Thanks Vossy. Revolutionary. You're usually the beacon of positivity BB. FWIW, I actually thought Motlop was good and I really didn't expect Cripps to kick a banana on his non preferred - hard pressed getting him to kick straight directly in front. Too many wrote off Ross Lyon as being a has-been. They also didn't like his negative game style or demeanour in press conferences. I wanted him (but we'll never know whether that would've been the right decision) and I feel we'd be happier with our players executing his defensive mindset than generally playing with a sense of malaise, complacency or being generous just a lack of confidence. At least for mine, if he was coach in our current predicament I also feel his press conferences would be based more in reality and connect with our supporter base than Voss' who's disingenuously positive demeanour (until today) seems more akin to a reformed thug that's found Jesus or someone heavily medicated on SSRI's (and I'm not making fun of the latter). We are a basket case. To me we seem reflective of our day and age where getting participation trophies are akin to real success. We seem like a club that puts more emphasis on social justice than the bottom line, which is actually winning - you can't achieve any ESG quotas if you're not profitable. This is the age where meanings and terminologies are redefined and those with little knowledge of history and experience think they know better - like kicking around the corner and managing with kid gloves (no determination to implement consequences). Sure it's a longbow. Anyhow, I'm queuing Blue Vain for a comprehensive post on this game and a long overdue multi-paragraph analysis or where we sit as a club and what the light at the end of the tunnel might entail. I'm all but lost.

Author:	FarmerBlue [ Sun May 14, 2023 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
Brad Lloyd on 3AW Tough night to score Didn't capitalise on work Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking Missing too many targets Ball movement improved last night Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition Understand supporter frustration Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field Club needs to stay united Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician Mumbled a lot Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems

Author:	Paddycripps [ Sun May 14, 2023 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
FarmerBlue wrote: Brad Lloyd on 3AW Tough night to score Didn't capitalise on work Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking Missing too many targets Ball movement improved last night Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition Understand supporter frustration Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field Club needs to stay united Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician Mumbled a lot Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems Need to get moving A BIT LOL

Author:	AGRO [ Sun May 14, 2023 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
We’ve talked the talk for 20 years - it’s time for this club to walk the walk.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
We shouldn't be playing home games at Marvel against sides that is also their home ground and essentially play more games there. The dogs play 12 games there The saints play 14 North play 11 We are giving up what should be a massive advantage If we are going to keep playing games there Interstate sides only And Melbourne based clubs that don't play there often like Hawks Tiges Dee's Cats and Richmond who play mainly at the MCG Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37771	Page 7 of 9

Author:	BluesRockMyWorld [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
FarmerBlue wrote: Brad Lloyd on 3AW Tough night to score : was it 21 inside 50s in the first half or was it the first quarter. Regardless 1 goal in a half is completely unacceptable Didn't capitalise on work Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking If thats the case the either the work he is putting in isnt effective, the forward coach isnt helping and his confidence is completely shot. Maybe its all three? Missing too many targets Ball movement improved last night Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else No need? So the club is happy to accept the sheer incompetence of his coaching because there has not been any improvement Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals His comments were fine? Another clear example that not only do the players accept mediocrity the clubs board does to. Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition Reviews? If they are happening then there has not been any proactive action to fix execution. Understand supporter frustration Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape Another example of accepting mediocrity Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field There has been no evidence of a united or connected playing group. Thats a FACT Brad. Club needs to stay united Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician Mumbled a lot Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems

Author:	Paddycripps [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
wasthesonofapreacherman wrote: bondiblue wrote: Hornet wrote: You kick one goal in a half of football... under a closed roof... you get what you deserve. I read in the game thread that the coach deserves credit for the changes after half time... well, who gets the credit for the first? We lost the 1st half by 18 points We lost the 2nd half by 2 points Yeah right...winning changes. Thanks Vossy. Revolutionary. You're usually the beacon of positivity BB. FWIW, I actually thought Motlop was good and I really didn't expect Cripps to kick a banana on his non preferred - hard pressed getting him to kick straight directly in front. Too many wrote off Ross Lyon as being a has-been. They also didn't like his negative game style or demeanour in press conferences. I wanted him (but we'll never know whether that would've been the right decision) and I feel we'd be happier with our players executing his defensive mindset than generally playing with a sense of malaise, complacency or being generous just a lack of confidence. At least for mine, if he was coach in our current predicament I also feel his press conferences would be based more in reality and connect with our supporter base than Voss' who's disingenuously positive demeanour (until today) seems more akin to a reformed thug that's found Jesus or someone heavily medicated on SSRI's (and I'm not making fun of the latter). We are a basket case. To me we seem reflective of our day and age where getting participation trophies are akin to real success. We seem like a club that puts more emphasis on social justice than the bottom line, which is actually winning - you can't achieve any ESG quotas if you're not profitable. This is the age where meanings and terminologies are redefined and those with little knowledge of history and experience think they know better - like kicking around the corner and managing with kid gloves (no determination to implement consequences). Sure it's a longbow. Anyhow, I'm queuing Blue Vain for a comprehensive post on this game and a long overdue multi-paragraph analysis or where we sit as a club and what the light at the end of the tunnel might entail. I'm all but lost. Yeah Motlops 8 touches and no goals were great How about his handball late to the opposition Bravo

Author:	Rod Waddell [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
IMO Durdin and Motlop may not be ready for regular top flight football.

Author:	david31 [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
FarmerBlue wrote: Brad Lloyd on 3AW Tough night to score Didn't capitalise on work Worked hard to get back into game but couldn't hang on McKay putting in a heap of work on goalkicking Missing too many targets Ball movement improved last night Ash hansen works on goalkicking. No need for anyone else Adam Cerra comments last week were fine but we want to play finals Reviews say we need to execute better. Not really about opposition Understand supporter frustration Off field going well and we are doing everything to improve People can have their opinion and I accept that, I think the club is in really good shape Really focused on staying united and connected. I understand the expectation, but I couldn't feel more supported and I think the club is in really good shape we just need to get moving a bit on the field Club needs to stay united Really said a heap of nothing that didn't mean anything. Was like a Politician Mumbled a lot Personally, I believe Brad is one of the problems Brad Lloyd is a huge problem for this club. If anyone in the football department is to go, he has to be first as the head of a failing department. He is responsible for managing and overseeing the coaching group, list management team and high performance team. The heads of those roles report directly to Brad. He is ultimately responsible for their performance and making changes when things aren’t working. He’s the guy paid to recognise that Voss’ coaching team lacked tactical nous and bolster it through assistants but he rolled the same coaching group out after last year. He’s the guy who had to be ruthless and ensure that more injury prone players were delisted at the end of last year. To run through his time at Carlton: - Started at the club in August 2018. No previous experience in a head of football or equivalent role. He was list manager at Freo before arriving. - In 2019, oversaw the Bolton sacking and Teague appointment (which was a complete waste of 2 years). - In 2021, the club review finds significant failures in the football department, a lack of delineation around roles and other adverse findings. Coaches and other members of the footy department are removed but somehow the head of that department (who is responsible for its running) is found not culpable and survives. - Also in 2021, part of panel to appoint Voss (which is looking shaky at best). - In 2022, failed to change the coaching panel when all was not well by seasons end. No proactive moves. Injury prone players given contracts for 2023. We now get to 2023. We are failing and the coach is rightfully being questioned. That is where we’re at and we’ve got to move forward and make big calls across coaching, recruitment strategy (ie mini retool or push forward), trading out players, injury prone players etc. Brad has had 5 years of opportunities and missed the mark time and time again. Bring in someone with experience in this role that can weather the storm and make ruthless decisions in the best interests of this club.

Author:	redback [ Sun May 14, 2023 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
bondiblue wrote: Stefchook wrote: Cons Acres, Motlop, Cripps, Cincotta, McGovern, Hewett, Durdin, JOS. Got shot down a couple weeks ago when I agreed with another poster that Motlop isnt an auto selection, because his form had been flakey the previous 2 weeks in a forwardline full of midgets. Getting rid of one midget, Fisher, didnt go far enough. Two midgets is plenty. Apart from that one super tackle last night, Motlop had 8 disposals an 50% Def. FF Owies CHF Durdin Enough is enough with the midgets. They are not marking forwards. Cripps, Harry and jack kicking for goal is C Grade. They are full time footballers. WTF. might as well put them as kpp they take our real kp space anyway

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun May 14, 2023 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
So much negativity in here. We just need a ‘small rebuild’ and new coaches and game plan. Give us 5 years to execute. We’ll be fine. All is good.

Author:	jpulice1969 [ Sun May 14, 2023 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
not good enough simple,forget all the excuses the players not good enough .

Author:	keogh [ Sun May 14, 2023 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
The criticism of Cripps is partially justified I haven’t rated him as a captain Too much one of the boys but some of this talk about him on this site is over the top Imagine if he wasn’t with us the last 9 years The guy has a go every week The thing is opposition clubs have figured him out Sit on him in the context Once the ball is out in opposition hands he is a non factor It’s obvious that he needs a role change Swap Charlie and Cripps Play McKay deep Cripps to play forward Opposition teams have worked out Saad too So play him On a wing Voss has to change these 2 guys roles in the team Play Durdin in the middle for periods Even Owies who I have always said would make a reasonable mid De Koning to play ruck Carroll and Binns to play Carrol to play wing Play Binns as a sub Kemp to play defence Playing Cerra at HB and Ed as a sub is stupid Our midfield is vanilla One has to go Hewett goes to the magoos Voss needs to have the balls to change things

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun May 14, 2023 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
jpulice1969 wrote: not good enough simple,forget all the excuses the players not good enough . I just need to ask, anyone specific?

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Author:	keogh [ Sun May 14, 2023 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
SurreyBlue wrote: jpulice1969 wrote: not good enough simple,forget all the excuses the players not good enough . I just need to ask, anyone specific? JOS Motlop( only young but 2 year contract extension is overs) Dow O’Brien (both 6 years) Ed Curnow Acres Martin( other than a 3 Rd in a GC b and f and a rising star nomination what has he done his whole career) Mc Govern so overrated Fogarty Plowman Pittonet ( tries but a b grader) I keep saying Our recruiting is crap

Author:	cortez [ Sun May 14, 2023 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
We keep turning over coaches to no advantage, stick with Voss. Can't blame him for years of recruiting failures. Too many games where it's all over by quarter time, then we rally for a "respectable" loss. Has to be between the ears, the heat's on early and we can't handle it. Like others I was blown away by Cerra's comments, if that is the attitude of the majority of players god help us. I'd like to see Cripps and McKay "rested" for a week to reflect on their performances. Like others I'm over this. Haven't played finals in (I think) ten years. Last GF 1999. Last flag 1995. We are a joke, Fitzroy of the 21st century. Oh, but we are doing well off the field!! I'm 72 and had visions of taking my grandsons to see Carlton in a GF; fat chance. Hard decisions need to be made with the list, there's too many who should have been moved on by now. Injury prone players? Sorry we can't carry you any longer. Highly paid players who aren't performing? See you later. If the present playing list can't even get us into the finals, what's the point? Overhaul the list at the end of the year, we need to be ruthless. Anyone want to bet Hawthorn with their young list won't go past us in a couple of years?

Author:	GreatEx [ Sun May 14, 2023 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
I don't even know if it's that our players are no good, but just that they have too many common weaknesses... how many on our list whose draft profile was something like "good ball winner, good handball... kicking needs work" or "supremely talented in all facets of the game... hasn't played in 3 years after multiple knee reconstructions". Surprise surprise, we have a team in which 3/4 of the players can't hit av target for shit, and those who can never play. Losing mentality also an issue, ingrained through years of chasing draft position and insisting that results don't matter. Lots on here were cheering our low finishes in the 2010s, now you see what that brings.

Author:	carntheblues [ Sun May 14, 2023 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
keogh wrote: The criticism of Cripps is partially justified I haven’t rated him as a captain Too much one of the boys but some of this talk about him on this site is over the top Imagine if he wasn’t with us the last 9 years The guy has a go every week The thing is opposition clubs have figured him out Sit on him in the context Once the ball is out in opposition hands he is a non factor It’s obvious that he needs a role change Swap Charlie and Cripps Play McKay deep Cripps to play forward Opposition teams have worked out Saad too So play him On a wing Voss has to change these 2 guys roles in the team Play Durdin in the middle for periods Even Owies who I have always said would make a reasonable mid De Koning to play ruck Carroll and Binns to play Carrol to play wing Play Binns as a sub Kemp to play defence Playing Cerra at HB and Ed as a sub is stupid Our midfield is vanilla One has to go Hewett goes to the magoos Voss needs to have the balls to change things Spoken like someone who doesn't go to games and relies on a few stats to build an opinion that supports his total negativity.

Author:	FarmerBlue [ Sun May 14, 2023 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R9: Carlton Vs WBD (Post match Discussion)
Skills Skills Skills