TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)

carntheblues wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week.

We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay.

I agree. The game reminded me of us against Geelong last year. They allowed us space to move the ball into areas of the ground they wanted, set up around those areas and then choked us to turnover the ball. We were kicking long from deep in defence to contests while they were kicking long from their defence to the wing/HF line after working the ball through our defence. It meant their forward entries were generally deep while we regularly turned the ball over at their half forward line or when we did get it forward it was a shallow F50 entry. We didn't seem to have an answer especially in the third. Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts (Walsh had a shocker with his kicking). I feel without Docherty at HB our defence lacks leadership. We looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights at times, especially Young!

I don't think our midfield was beaten and there was nothing wrong with Harry's game. The major issue was our poor kicking which I believe then led to a lack of confidence in taking short kicks through the defensive setup, so we tooko the conservative approach down the line where they had generally extra numbers at the fall of the ball.

We have dumb footballers who need to be told what to do and can't change the game on the go, ie. they wait for the break to be told.
Leadership and footy iq is ONE huge issue within this group.

I tell you watching the game - the midfield was beaten. Kennedy in the last quarter made a incredible difference.

Blue Vain wrote:

bluehammer wrote:

Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.

Or do we need to be more adventurous BH? I'd love to see Durdin in the midfield. Some fast feet at the stoppages would make us less one dimensional and perhaps get our small forwards into the game.

I would love Cincotta to take Ed's lock down role...younger, faster, more skilled and from afar, I believe he has the mental application (oh, and he's got a mature body)

The only issue putting Durdin in the centre is our forward line is already too one dimensional and he's really the only one that is providing anything as an alternative ATM.
Durdin and Motlop were the only multiple goal scorers for us on the weekend.
I think he'd be great on ball but unlike our defence depth that has the option of moving required players like Saad or Doc into different roles, the cupboard is already bare in the F50, hence our predictability and ease of defending against when we go forward to our mainly used options of Charlie or McKay.
We need to add more depth and pressure with players like Kennedy and Cripps not less IMO.
A more viable option for speed in the centre is Cottrell and from all accounts on the weekend, he could be ready to go this week.

Durdin and Motlop have done SFA this year, including last Friday

Some junk time stats don't cut it for me

99prelim wrote:

Durdin and Motlop have done SFA this year, including last Friday

Some junk time stats don't cut it for me

We are relying on two 19 and 20yo kids to do too much heavy lifting because there's no seasoned forwards on our list.

Hollands is just 19yo. Honey 21yo.

These guys should be building their games, but we are relying on them to conquer their position.

Something not right about that.

Really missing seasoned bodies Martin and Cuningham imo.

robertbb wrote:

Having meditated upon this match I conclude as follows:

No Fisher, No Carlton.

I believe you need to medicate on this match.

Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form.

Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset.

Blue Vain wrote:

Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form.

Two direct turnovers for goals from Weitering up to 3/4 time which is when I found something more interesting to do. For someone who is usually composed with the ball this was glaring.

Quote:

Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset.

Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember.

Wojee wrote:

Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember.

Des English?

Blue Vain wrote:

Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form.

Two direct turnovers for goals from Weitering up to 3/4 time which is when I found something more interesting to do. For someone who is usually composed with the ball this was glaring.

Quote:

Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset.

Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember.

Author:	bondiblue [ Sun May 07, 2023 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
SurreyBlue wrote: carntheblues wrote: Blue Vain wrote: We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week. We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay. I agree. The game reminded me of us against Geelong last year. They allowed us space to move the ball into areas of the ground they wanted, set up around those areas and then choked us to turnover the ball. We were kicking long from deep in defence to contests while they were kicking long from their defence to the wing/HF line after working the ball through our defence. It meant their forward entries were generally deep while we regularly turned the ball over at their half forward line or when we did get it forward it was a shallow F50 entry. We didn't seem to have an answer especially in the third. Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts (Walsh had a shocker with his kicking). I feel without Docherty at HB our defence lacks leadership. We looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights at times, especially Young! I don't think our midfield was beaten and there was nothing wrong with Harry's game. The major issue was our poor kicking which I believe then led to a lack of confidence in taking short kicks through the defensive setup, so we tooko the conservative approach down the line where they had generally extra numbers at the fall of the ball. We have dumb footballers who need to be told what to do and can't change the game on the go, ie. they wait for the break to be told. Leadership and footy iq is ONE huge issue within this group. I tell you watching the game - the midfield was beaten. Kennedy in the last quarter made a incredible difference. Lions put the cue in the rack when they got to a 41 point lead...during the 3rd quarter. But I get your point.

Author:	bondiblue [ Sun May 07, 2023 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
99prelim wrote: Blue Vain wrote: bluehammer wrote: Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having. We have too many player that can only play one position. Or do we need to be more adventurous BH? I'd love to see Durdin in the midfield. Some fast feet at the stoppages would make us less one dimensional and perhaps get our small forwards into the game. I would love Cincotta to take Ed's lock down role...younger, faster, more skilled and from afar, I believe he has the mental application (oh, and he's got a mature body) All good ideas, including BVs Durdin. Mixing it up should be a standard thing, not a desperate response. I like the Cripps Kennedy idea at FP, just to mix things up. I think the word is flexibility and adapting to the situation at large

Author:	bluehammer [ Sun May 07, 2023 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:	R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Yeah. I'm not saying we throw the magnets up in the air, but a lot of our players just scream one-position or one trick pony to me. Moreso than other sides. Our lack of options through the middle is concerning.

Author:	BamBam7 [ Sun May 07, 2023 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Agree Cripps and Kennedy need to spend some time forward. I remember Kennedy saying he had a chat with Voss when he first started as coach and was told it's inside mid or nothing. I hope Voss still doesn't feel that way. I would take Durdin in the middle over Fisher any day of the week. He punches way above his weight and loves to tackle. Is it too soon to be suggesting Charlie attend one or two centre bounces per game? JSOS? Nobody is suggesting any of these guys play full time mid, but a centre bounce here and there to keep the opposition guessing, and give the inside bulls a few minutes to have a breather up forward might help? Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Author:	Sidefx [ Sun May 07, 2023 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
The only issue putting Durdin in the centre is our forward line is already too one dimensional and he's really the only one that is providing anything as an alternative ATM. Durdin and Motlop were the only multiple goal scorers for us on the weekend. I think he'd be great on ball but unlike our defence depth that has the option of moving required players like Saad or Doc into different roles, the cupboard is already bare in the F50, hence our predictability and ease of defending against when we go forward to our mainly used options of Charlie or McKay. We need to add more depth and pressure with players like Kennedy and Cripps not less IMO. A more viable option for speed in the centre is Cottrell and from all accounts on the weekend, he could be ready to go this week.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37762	Page 10 of 12

Author:	99prelim [ Sun May 07, 2023 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Sidefx wrote: The only issue putting Durdin in the centre is our forward line is already too one dimensional and he's really the only one that is providing anything as an alternative ATM. Durdin and Motlop were the only multiple goal scorers for us on the weekend. I think he'd be great on ball but unlike our defence depth that has the option of moving required players like Saad or Doc into different roles, the cupboard is already bare in the F50, hence our predictability and ease of defending against when we go forward to our mainly used options of Charlie or McKay. We need to add more depth and pressure with players like Kennedy and Cripps not less IMO. A more viable option for speed in the centre is Cottrell and from all accounts on the weekend, he could be ready to go this week. Durdin and Motlop have done SFA this year, including last Friday Some junk time stats don't cut it for me Durds to middle as part of the rotations Cripps to FF for short bursts-the greatest effect from that is that the other mids are empowered to take the lead kennedy is EASILY EASILY EASILY our best inside mid/HF combo Cincotta to play with angry pills on one of their midfield playmakers giving us grief As bondi said, these should be proactive moves as part of our gameplan; not reactive moves at 3QT when the game is lost

Author:	billc3 [ Sun May 07, 2023 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:	R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Pretty good summation https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ris ... 5d6gk.html Go Blues

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon May 08, 2023 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
billc3 wrote: Pretty good summation https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ris ... 5d6gk.html Go Blues Effes was good enough to copy and paste it in the Voss thread.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon May 08, 2023 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
99prelim wrote: Durdin and Motlop have done SFA this year, including last Friday Some junk time stats don't cut it for me We are relying on two 19 and 20yo kids to do too much heavy lifting because there's no seasoned forwards on our list. Hollands is just 19yo. Honey 21yo. These guys should be building their games, but we are relying on them to conquer their position. Something not right about that. Really missing seasoned bodies Martin and Cuningham imo.

Author:	Sidefx [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
bondiblue wrote: 99prelim wrote: Durdin and Motlop have done SFA this year, including last Friday Some junk time stats don't cut it for me We are relying on two 19 and 20yo kids to do too much heavy lifting because there's no seasoned forwards on our list. Hollands is just 19yo. Honey 21yo. These guys should be building their games, but we are relying on them to conquer their position. Something not right about that. Really missing seasoned bodies Martin and Cuningham imo. 100% The forwards need more support, not position changes.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form. (And needs to toughen up a bit as well) Young had a shocker and has had his flaws exposed a bit recently. Decent intercept mark but his spoiling is abysmal. Doesn't kill the ball. Instead he hits the ball straight to the opposition (twice on Friday) or hits it into the corridor. Coughed up goals on Friday through stupid mistakes or terrible technique. The last straw for Voss was when he handballed it straight to Brisbane for a goal. It shows how bad he was when he was subbed out at a time we were desperate for a tall defender. Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset. I admire Kemp's confidence but he makes some atrocious decisions with the ball. He needs to keep it simple. When the game was on the line, our back line leaked like a sieve. Sadly mistakes can be contagious and we put that on full display in the third quarter. Our disposal skills went down the toilet and some players became turnover machines. It wasn't from the pressure of Brisbane. It was the space between our players ears that dragged them down. Quality players like Sam Walsh were fumbling, missing targets etc. It's no different to when a team gets a run of goal misses happening. Suddenly no one wants to take a shot or if they do, they expect to miss. I'm sure we had players on Friday night who expected to miss the target before they kicked the ball. The human mind. No team will master it but those who can extract more from it will have success. We're still a long way off.

Author:	Sidefx [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
100% And when you are playing against a side that has such a dangerous forward line of talls and smalls, you get exposed for even the slightest of errors. And we didn't just have slight errors in defence, coming out of defence or moving up the ground.

Author:	robertbb [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
bluedog wrote: robertbb wrote: Having meditated upon this match I conclude as follows: No Fisher, No Carlton. I believe you need to medicate on this match. Oh I did. Before, during and most certainly after.

Author:	robertbb [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
See also:

Page 10 of 12	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Sidefx [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)

Author:	Wojee [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Blue Vain wrote: Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form. Two direct turnovers for goals from Weitering up to 3/4 time which is when I found something more interesting to do. For someone who is usually composed with the ball this was glaring. Quote: Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset. Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember.

Author:	Sidefx [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Wojee wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form. Two direct turnovers for goals from Weitering up to 3/4 time which is when I found something more interesting to do. For someone who is usually composed with the ball this was glaring. Quote: Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset. Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember. You can add to that, 1 from McGovern handball. And two from Acres errant kicking, nearly 3. That's 5 goals in total, it makes a difference.

Author:	GWS [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Wojee wrote: Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember. Des English?

Author:	Wojee [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
GWS wrote: Wojee wrote: Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember. Des English? A lifetime ago when being a Carlton supporter wasn't something that people laughed at you for.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton Vs Brisbane (Post match discussion)
Wojee wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Our backline which is usually a strength is really struggling. Weitering is out of form. Two direct turnovers for goals from Weitering up to 3/4 time which is when I found something more interesting to do. For someone who is usually composed with the ball this was glaring. Quote: Newman was beaten but he's been very good to date. The match up wasn't great. Pace isn't his asset. Carlton hasn't had a defender who's been consistently able to match quick small forwards like Charlie Cameron for as long as I can remember. Williams. Saad can when he locking down is his primary objective Des English Rodney Hogg