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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 11:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.

Versatility and our roll up through the middle is limited. Currently motlop and durdin can't impact anywhere really. Our forwards are just forwards. Our backs are just backs.

I don't see versatility, for all our talk of 'let's play Cripps forward' he's not a good enough kick to punish anyone.

Hewett and Ed are one trick ponies and Pitto is not a forward threat.

The other strong sides have a versatility to their on field 18 that we simply don't have. It doesn't mean they shuffle them all around, but they're able to adapt to a variety of styles as the game requires. We haven't got a good enough kicking game for slow slice and dice, and we're not fast (of mind/foot) to slingshot.

We're in no man's land.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 7:56 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Did you just invent Total Football?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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bluehammer wrote:
Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.



Or do we need to be more adventurous BH? I'd love to see Durdin in the midfield. Some fast feet at the stoppages would make us less one dimensional and perhaps get our small forwards into the game.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:18 am 
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Geoff Southby

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Blue Vain wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.



Or do we need to be more adventurous BH? I'd love to see Durdin in the midfield. Some fast feet at the stoppages would make us less one dimensional and perhaps get our small forwards into the game.

Agree


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:40 am 
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Geoff Southby

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FarmerBlue wrote:
Effes wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Is it personnel or is it game style that is the problem?


Both.


Maybe but I struggle to believe a side with Cripps Walsh Saad Docherty Hewett Cerra McKay Curnow Weitering McGovern Acres shouldn’t be better


Unfortunately about 10 other sides have better players than us.

Most sides have at least some very good players.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:43 am 
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Robert Walls

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bluehammer wrote:
Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.

Versatility and our roll up through the middle is limited. Currently motlop and durdin can't impact anywhere really. Our forwards are just forwards. Our backs are just backs.

I don't see versatility, for all our talk of 'let's play Cripps forward' he's not a good enough kick to punish anyone.

Hewett and Ed are one trick ponies and Pitto is not a forward threat.

The other strong sides have a versatility to their on field 18 that we simply don't have. It doesn't mean they shuffle them all around, but they're able to adapt to a variety of styles as the game requires. We haven't got a good enough kicking game for slow slice and dice, and we're not fast (of mind/foot) to slingshot.

We're in no man's land.


We have a skillful player who can play inside mid and HF, but plays HB or comes on as a sub when the game is lost

we have a beast of a mid who is having a quiet year, who gets tagged and manhandled, who I genuinely believe stifles the development of other mids because he has to do it all himself but we never think of giving him 25% game time at FF, causing headaches for opp defenders, freeing up Curnow to wander the ground, especially a wing from both an outlet perspective and a damaging F50 entry perspective

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:48 am 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Vain wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Watching other games this season, here's my totally uninformed take on the struggles we're having.

We have too many player that can only play one position.



Or do we need to be more adventurous BH? I'd love to see Durdin in the midfield. Some fast feet at the stoppages would make us less one dimensional and perhaps get our small forwards into the game.


I would love Cincotta to take Ed's lock down role...younger, faster, more skilled and from afar, I believe he has the mental application (oh, and he's got a mature body)

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:51 am 
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Robert Walls

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Adam Chatfield wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Effes wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Is it personnel or is it game style that is the problem?


Both.


Maybe but I struggle to believe a side with Cripps Walsh Saad Docherty Hewett Cerra McKay Curnow Weitering McGovern Acres shouldn’t be better


Unfortunately about 10 other sides have better players than us.

Most sides have at least some very good players.


We have gone backwards since that StK loss last year

If players have gone backwards (or less-better), that is on the coaches, as is whatever dogs breakfast of a game plan we have (which is another reason we have gone backwards)

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:30 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week.

We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay.



That's how I see it BV. Same against the Saints.

Get the disposal skills fixed and we win games.

Have to prune the culprits, or teach them they are not the ones to not take risks till we replace them.

Lets not forget, Top 8, not Top of the Ladder is our goal this year.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 12:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Just on Kennedy being sub 2 weeks in a row. Seemed really weird to me (& to many others in the prematch discussion).

I wonder if he's not 100% over his injury & they thought he'd be OK to come on as sub, but not run out a full game? I just can't work out why you wouldn't play him against a midfield like Brisbane's, & then wait so long to bring him on when we were getting beaten

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 1:09 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Do we have too many one-sided players, getting themselves into trouble too frequently?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 1:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Blue Vain wrote:
We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week.

We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay.



I agree. The game reminded me of us against Geelong last year. They allowed us space to move the ball into areas of the ground they wanted, set up around those areas and then choked us to turnover the ball. We were kicking long from deep in defence to contests while they were kicking long from their defence to the wing/HF line after working the ball through our defence. It meant their forward entries were generally deep while we regularly turned the ball over at their half forward line or when we did get it forward it was a shallow F50 entry. We didn't seem to have an answer especially in the third. Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts (Walsh had a shocker with his kicking). I feel without Docherty at HB our defence lacks leadership. We looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights at times, especially Young!

I don't think our midfield was beaten and there was nothing wrong with Harry's game. The major issue was our poor kicking which I believe then led to a lack of confidence in taking short kicks through the defensive setup, so we tooko the conservative approach down the line where they had generally extra numbers at the fall of the ball.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 2:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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carntheblues wrote:
Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts



Quite possibly all of the above. In any event it made it look like the Lions were just playing with their dinner.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 2:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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carntheblues wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week.

We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay.



I agree. The game reminded me of us against Geelong last year. They allowed us space to move the ball into areas of the ground they wanted, set up around those areas and then choked us to turnover the ball. We were kicking long from deep in defence to contests while they were kicking long from their defence to the wing/HF line after working the ball through our defence. It meant their forward entries were generally deep while we regularly turned the ball over at their half forward line or when we did get it forward it was a shallow F50 entry. We didn't seem to have an answer especially in the third. Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts (Walsh had a shocker with his kicking). I feel without Docherty at HB our defence lacks leadership. We looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights at times, especially Young!

I don't think our midfield was beaten and there was nothing wrong with Harry's game. The major issue was our poor kicking which I believe then led to a lack of confidence in taking short kicks through the defensive setup, so we tooko the conservative approach down the line where they had generally extra numbers at the fall of the ball.


We have dumb footballers who need to be told what to do and can't change the game on the go, ie. they wait for the break to be told.
Leadership and footy iq is ONE huge issue within this group.

I tell you watching the game - the midfield was beaten. Kennedy in the last quarter made a incredible difference.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 2:37 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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carntheblues wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
We gifted them 85% of their score from turnover. We were caught in the hype of last week and thought we had found the magic formula of ball movement but it's a bit harder when you are playing a quality opposition. Lions didn't take the high risk kicks into the corridor. They moved the ball with system, workrate and method. That's the key. There is no easy, lazy method of moving the ball. You can't play West Coast every week.

We have to consider how many players we can retain in the 22 who can't kick the ball. They all offer something positive but 85 points from turnover? We won contested ball, hitouts to advantage, centre clearances, ground balls but we kept giving it back under little pressure and they made us pay.



I agree. The game reminded me of us against Geelong last year. They allowed us space to move the ball into areas of the ground they wanted, set up around those areas and then choked us to turnover the ball. We were kicking long from deep in defence to contests while they were kicking long from their defence to the wing/HF line after working the ball through our defence. It meant their forward entries were generally deep while we regularly turned the ball over at their half forward line or when we did get it forward it was a shallow F50 entry. We didn't seem to have an answer especially in the third. Was this a coaching issue, leadership on the field issue or that we just couldn't kick for peanuts (Walsh had a shocker with his kicking). I feel without Docherty at HB our defence lacks leadership. We looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights at times, especially Young!

I don't think our midfield was beaten and there was nothing wrong with Harry's game. The major issue was our poor kicking which I believe then led to a lack of confidence in taking short kicks through the defensive setup, so we tooko the conservative approach down the line where they had generally extra numbers at the fall of the ball.


Good insights. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 2:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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It's simple for opposition to nullify Carlton.
We have 6 players and if you limit them you beat Carlton. The other 17 can't step up.
They had Weiters 2nd guessing himself
Nullified Saad.
Shut down Cripps and Walsh and limited Charlie and Harry.

We don't have players who can step up when the opposition target our 6.

JSOS Durdin Motlop Honey should occasionally kick 3 to 4 goals but they don't.
Cincotta Newman Doc should run and carry off half back when Saad is shut-down but they don't.
Others should provide options up the line but they don't.

It should not always be up to Cripps to break out the front of stoppage


To much reliance on to few.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 3:12 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Having meditated upon this match I conclude as follows:

No Fisher, No Carlton.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 6:22 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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robertbb wrote:
Having meditated upon this match I conclude as follows:

No Fisher, No Carlton.
Say it aint so, Joe. Say it aint so...

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 6:35 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sydney Blue wrote:
It's simple for opposition to nullify Carlton.
We have 6 players and if you limit them you beat Carlton. The other 17 can't step up.
They had Weiters 2nd guessing himself
Nullified Saad.
Shut down Cripps and Walsh and limited Charlie and Harry.

We don't have players who can step up when the opposition target our 6.

JSOS Durdin Motlop Honey should occasionally kick 3 to 4 goals but they don't.
Cincotta Newman Doc should run and carry off half back when Saad is shut-down but they don't.
Others should provide options up the line but they don't.

It should not always be up to Cripps to break out the front of stoppage


To much reliance on to few.


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That's right SB, and Doc plays a special role in our team.

The next best supposedly Martin, Williams, Marchbank are all out injured.

That's why I cant believe people are surprised we lost vs Lions.

There's a lot of gapes that require filling, but as you say, our list lacks the right....personality and class.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 6:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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robertbb wrote:
Having meditated upon this match I conclude as follows:

No Fisher, No Carlton.





I believe you need to medicate on this match.

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