bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
By pure outside player I mean if there are players going for the ball, stay out of the contest for the feed and not go crashing in like Acres does.
And to be honest we have seen LOB go in when he has to , just not hard enough or enough times as Acres or Hollands.
The problem is that the supporters only want to see bash and crash and while defensively that is good, those player types are not always going to be your silky delivery ones who are usually on the outside waiting for the ball. Plus even when LOB does go in, he still gets criticised for something.
With a strong defensive set up like we are getting, having a few outside players will not be at the expense of our defensive side to the game IMO.
While I don't regard LOB as an elite kick (that was his junior profile) he is miles ahead of Acres, Hollands and Binns and is still better than Cottrell IMO.
I think yourself and a lot of other supporters especially over the last year have given little to no latitude for errors from LOB, yet are willing to allow Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett and now Hollands and Acres plenty of room as examples. What did Hollands have again v Adelaide - 40% kicking efficiency and Acres was 53% and if I recall correctly they were applauded for good games and a shining light. And LOB is not on his own missing shots from 50 with no pressure, the above players all do it and do it regularly.
The reason Hollands is "preferred" is because of his willingness to commit, defiantly not his delivery skills as was Cottrell last season even though his kicking started to improve, something Ollie has to improve on.
And as I have also said, LOB showed improvement last season and had this season to show more to keep his spot, unfortunately he is yet to do this in the role as it is and most likely won't, he's just not wired that way.
But all of this is still moving away from my point, we lack class delivery into the F50 and out of all our wings, LOB can kick and because he is not a high contact player like the other wings, does that mean we adjust the role for him to get better delivery or do we just persist with the same F50 delivery until either Hollands can kick or at the end of the season try and find someone who can. It is a weakness that is yet to be addressed, especially with a slow midfield that are not elite kicks either.
Cottrell may end up being the only saving grace, even though I'd really like to see how he goes in a Prestia type role.
I get where you are coming from and I'm fine with it. LOB is a good long left foot kick and has got wheels fit for a wing.
Without trying to be offensive, I think you sound like an apologist for LOB's shortfalls.
I highlighted a couple points: "miles better" point is there's more to a complete game than just kicking, and imo he's not miles ahead of all those you mention. I think its wrong to group all those players with 19yo Hollands and Binns to make a point. You are setting the bar low comparing LOB to the first year players to help LOB shine imo. Binns' kicking has surprised me TBH. He's not a long kick but hits his targets.
I wouldnt put LOB in the same sentence as Walsh Hewett Cripps Cerra. I think Cerra is a better kick than LOB, and Walsh takes better options than LOBas does Hewett. We all know what Cripps brings, and he is criticised for his kicking but you know...Cripps a Brownlow Medallist. Cerra and Hewett can kick accurately on either side under pressure, so, no, LOB isnt excused that easily for his weaknesses.
Those players you highlight as weaker kicks imo bring a more rounded game than LOB. Acres and Cottrell are better kicks than Hollands and Binns, and LOB kicks longer and more accurately than both the kids. I have more faith in Cottrell and Acres passing a ball under pressure, and for goal than LOB. Cottrells kicking has been fine.
Finals is all about pressure. I dont think LOB can handle pressure. Its just an opinion.
In anutshell, you are dismissing the importance of marking, shepherding, blocking, tackling, goal kicking, and taking ones moments......for any role let alone the wing, whether its a 'pure' outside role or not. A player has to be prepared to handle the moment in a Final regardless of what it is. He can't pick and choose. It doesnt work that way.
Once we have our running players back and start running it out of defence, like we did last week, space opens up, as do options in space and delivery improves. Hopefully Boyd comes in with Cincotta for extra line breaking speed from the backline, and all of the sudden our passing looks classy.
We shouldnt have to adjust a game because of one player's shortfalls imo.
LOB has a role on our list so I'm glad he's on it. I was greatful he was on it last year. I'm hoping we've improved from last year with Acres and Hollands, and Cottrell back. I see LOB as a break glass option.
Not offensive at all, but I think you have totally missed my point and yet have somehow danced around it.
Our F50 entries are not up to scratch, I know you can agree on that.
Our inside midfielders this year (with the exception of the last round) have been unreliable with delivery into the F50 and goal kicking.
Our Half Forwards have also been unreliable/injured.
Our wings (last years "issue") while they are more contested are also no improvement in our F50 entries (their main job IMO) and from what I've seen are worse (just look at our stats).
And in the current era where rebounding the football and scoring are now the more common scoring avenue of teams that are in the top 8, our connection between the arcs have been letting us down with our delivery inside the F50 to two of the best key forwards in the league.
So as far as being a LOB apologist, I think this may come from your dislike of him. I am using him to make a point regarding kicking ability, I know he lacks in other areas, we all do, yet he still has something the rest of our wings don't have or are yet to show. And if Voss is going to play Hollands in every round this year, being a first year player in a team pushing for finals is no excuse, 40% KE is the low bar. You are either good enough or not and IMO it doesn't matter how more rounded you are, it doesn't fix the overall issue for us to push forward, we lack kicking skill in our side and is why a team with a strong defence can put us to the sword.
And regarding Walsh, Cripps, Cerra and Hewett I think you have missed that point also. All of these players have made some horrible decisions and kicked some horrible footballs this year but we/you tend to look past that and when LOB came on for that quarter against the Saints and one of his 4 kicks went out of bounds, well he may as well have shot bambi. The point is, in a side where we are statistically one of the worst kicking teams in the comp and Hollands is the worst in the team according to one of your posts, the microscope should be placed on all players kicking abilities fairly and evenly. And if you do that, we lack kicking skills, something LOB has.
By making the above point is not diminishing the need for other attributes, I have more than once admitted LOB lacks them at times, hence him not being in the side.
The wing role under Voss seems to be a more defensive, contested role which is great for the team defensively, but that hasn't fixed our F50 entries this year.
I don't think Boyd will be our F50 entry saviour unless Saad or Docherty are moved to the wing, he will not add more class to the HB line than we already have IMO.
We will need to move the chess pieces to take advantage of that.
Cottrell may be the closest like for like to fit the Voss wing role but as I keep saying, I reckon he could be a stroke of genius in the centre with a slow midfield.
And I agree we shouldn't have to change our game for one player, but we have to change something to address our weaknesses and we can't keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting change, it's what we did last year and we missed out on finals.
Either way, I see something we are lacking and you see something we don't need.
I guess we will have to both agree to disagree and keep our trust that the only person who really knows what is happening has a solution, Voss.
Tonights game will be another good test on our rebounding transition to scoring, our RBi50 and i50 are all pretty similar, however they are 3 marks i50 better than us per game (probably more considering how many we took last week). But the concerning stat is centre clearances, they average 14.7 (1st) and we average 11.1 (15th).
Rich and Zorko out may just be enough to give us the better hand in the clearances.
Either way, we need to score more on transition and we need better around the ground kicking, especially into the F50.
The Lions are the 8th most scored against team at the moment (we are the 3rd least) but they have also scored over 100pts more than us, they are the 3rd highest and we are the 9th. It shows they are more attacking and we are more defending.
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