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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Rd 6 feels like affirmation round: Voss v Lyon

Have we made the right choice?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:26 am 
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Bruce Doull
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MVP: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=37737

(sorry about the rounds screwup)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:08 am 
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Harry Vallence

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robertbb wrote:
St Kilda game will be season-defining and in some ways, club defining. Our rebuild is looking shaky - few other clubs seem to have caught up or gone past us in ONE preseason.

Ball's in Vossy's court now.


I agree

Although, I think the rebuild was looking shaky about 2 years ago

There simply isn’t enough quality depth within our best 22

The lack of return on early draft picks such as Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Stocker and Fisher has really hurt our rebuild. They were meant to be the core of our midfield.

Too much reliance on our top players

For me, having Kennedy and Hewitt in our best midfield setup doesn’t compare favourably to many other teams


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:42 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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WOW wrote:

The lack of return on early draft picks such as Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Stocker and Fisher has really hurt our rebuild. They were meant to be the core of our midfield.

You can add Setterfield, Kemp and Philp to that list.
Furthermore the recruiting of injury prone players like McGovern, Marchbank, Williams and Martin.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:21 am 
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John Nicholls
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Yep - that's nine list spots and nine moves on the chess board of recruitment all of which turned to sh*t.

Draft: Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Stocker, Fisher
Trades: Gov, Marchy, Williams and Martin

Still though, we should be a top 6 side with the right coaching, game plan and development.

I suspect Cripps has been playing injured since the last few minutes in the Collingwood pre-season match. He looks slow. I know he was never "quick" but he never looked like he was standing still while his opponents just ran off him.

To be so reliant on a guy in Gov, who is made of the cheapest kind of cotton wool.... wowee. The minute I saw Plowman on the field warming up I txt'd bondi: "Plowman?????" and told my g/f he'd cost us 3 goals. She told me I was too mean. Then throughout the game she kept saying: wow who was that? The answer was always Plowman by the end of the game she stopped asking. She knew.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:33 am 
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John Nicholls
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Oh and you know someone said it before, we're a "corporate" club.

Perfect summation.

I've always admired Port for being a genuine grass-roots, people-connected club. I seem to bump into them every time we come to Adelaide and we've been coming for a number of years now. Spoke with Dixon and PP and J H-F and a few of the other guys at the carnival here before our game. Was on the plane with them back to Melbourne one time and got to observe them for a while as well.

There's not an air of superiority or of entitlement. They're genuinely good, approachable guys and they love their club and their coach and it shows.

They also have very little respect for us. We happened to be playing at the time we boarded the plane that time and we blew a comfortable lead against... I think it was the Hawks, back in 2021. We were up by 4 goals when the plane took off and we were behind when we touched down. They were laughing amongst themselves at us. Teams know we're fragile. They were on their way down to play Collingwood I think.






I'm pissed. I'm still pissed and hurt.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:41 am 
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John Nicholls
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Hey someone tell me how Setterfield's going at the cheats?

I haven't watched them much, because I @#$%&! hate their guts as a club (they're more entitled than we are :lol:)

But yeah how's he going? I suspect he's playing a solid role in a solid structure and getting the job done.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.





Did I mention I'm pissed.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:43 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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robertbb wrote:
There's not an air of superiority or of entitlement.

They also have very little respect for us. They were laughing amongst themselves at us..


How does that work? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:01 am 
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John Nicholls
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GWS wrote:
robertbb wrote:
There's not an air of superiority or of entitlement.

They also have very little respect for us. They were laughing amongst themselves at us..


How does that work? :lol:


What's the question?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:27 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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robertbb wrote:
GWS wrote:
robertbb wrote:
There's not an air of superiority or of entitlement.

They also have very little respect for us. They were laughing amongst themselves at us..


How does that work? :lol:


What's the question?


Not an air of superiority but very little respect?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:35 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rod Waddell wrote:
Rd 6 feels like affirmation round: Voss v Lyon

Have we made the right choice?
Should have got Barassi..... Seems we're seriously lacking on the a#&ekicking front

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:38 am 
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Ken Hunter
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robertbb wrote:
Hey someone tell me how Setterfield's going at the cheats?

I haven't watched them much, because I @#$%&! hate their guts as a club (they're more entitled than we are :lol:)

But yeah how's he going? I suspect he's playing a solid role in a solid structure and getting the job done.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.





Did I mention I'm pissed.


Playing well and amongst the scums best every week. Playing the role he is best suited. Is doing a lot of the inside work to allow others to user their outside skills. Gets the ball moving by hand and at the similar time negating the oppositions best inside mid. Had Oliver dusted in the 1st half on the weekend but Oliver fought back well in the second half. I wish the guy well, as he has found a team that plays him to his strengths. I’ll admit, I do find it hard to watch him, especially in those colors.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:53 am 
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John Nicholls
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SurreyBlue wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Hey someone tell me how Setterfield's going at the cheats?

I haven't watched them much, because I @#$%&! hate their guts as a club (they're more entitled than we are :lol:)

But yeah how's he going? I suspect he's playing a solid role in a solid structure and getting the job done.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.





Did I mention I'm pissed.


Playing well and amongst the scums best every week. Playing the role he is best suited. Is doing a lot of the inside work to allow others to user their outside skills. Gets the ball moving by hand and at the similar time negating the oppositions best inside mid. Had Oliver dusted in the 1st half on the weekend but Oliver fought back well in the second half. I wish the guy well, as he has found a team that plays him to his strengths. I’ll admit, I do find it hard to watch him, especially in those colors.


What a surprise. Shocked to be sitting here, etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:54 am 
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John Nicholls
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GWS wrote:
robertbb wrote:
GWS wrote:
robertbb wrote:
There's not an air of superiority or of entitlement.

They also have very little respect for us. They were laughing amongst themselves at us..


How does that work? :lol:


What's the question?


Not an air of superiority but very little respect?


Yes.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:59 am 
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John Nicholls
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I went from being really impressed with Voss' presser last week, to being so disappointed this time around.

What did he say about the boys having a "rest"? What @#$%&! round is it?

He should be saying it's a shame the next game isn't tomorrow. They're just so keen to make amends against a good side in St Kilda - wish it were sooner. We can't wait.

Nah let's have a rest.






I need to close the laptop. I've seen this movie before and I didn't like it. ANGRY.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:01 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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So many Wong's when we wearing the whites.

Blind Freddy saw this loss coming, but wasn't expecting pitiful and spineless on the menu.
Is our tackling coach......no forget that question....we categorically don't have one.

In a preview elsewhere, I said last year Crows pulled our pants down and all of AFL saw our frilly knickers.
Well they did it again..... only this time we were wearing nay knickers at all.
Commando !
But we sure don't play like commandos.
More like do do's.
We may be becoming extinct too if this ship isn't righted.

There has to be a line in the sand, or we are in a world of quicksand.
And all the Coleman medals, brownlow medals and AA jackets ain't worth a pimple on my bot bot.

They get paid like big strong men, yet play like little boys so often.

What does it take to motivate this team.
Using the word team loosely I know.

If with 10 days break they are not breathing fire v Saints, fear we are cacti.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:04 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
We have been less than average since round 10 last year.
Slow ball movement.
Like last year lose the contest when it’s in close and we are gone
Nothing has changed from last year.
Voss needs to throw the magnets around and see what the team can conjure up.
You look at Adelaide and how they moved the ball.
Every defender except Butts and Murray run through the lines
Hinge and Smith are brilliant kicks
Milera, Jones and Sholl all good kicks who run out of defence
Badly missed Doc and dare I say McGovern who once again showed his legs can’t hold up to regular AFL footy
This was coming.
Hewett is clearly injured
Cripps just travelling
Kennedy injury interrupted
That’s the game
Cerra tried to lift the side but he is a fourth string mid. Give up a first and third rounder and in the long run your depth will be tested
Acres was one of the few to hold his head up but he too is your average solid citizen type player

What the Crows have mainly done is trust their recruiting staff to pick kids
Rankine and Dawson are from other clubs
Dawson has been a huge pick up
Great leader as well
Voss needs to start playing guys in different positions
Inject some ball movement
Play Binns Carroll Kemp
He needs to find out what this list can do
That won’t happen if it’s the status quo
Nothing to lose


Good summary

Too one dimensional and rely on too few
We may not have the cattle for that quick ball movement due to lack of pace and our kicking ability
Our list seems unbalanced to me, which doesn't help
Agree, need to change the mix as simply winning enough games to fall into the eight won't lead to sustained success
I was calling for a mini rebuild a few years ago. I think we have missed the boat
If we miss our premiership window, it may end up being a full blown rebuild



We're not playing good footy but I wouldn't be giving away the season just yet. :?

Our coaches and players need to re-focus and play to our strengths. For starters, forget the bullshit of playing midfielders at half back to plug holes and play system over personnel. Whilst Cripps was getting a flogging in the middle of the ground and the game was slipping away, Adam Cerra was filling in for Sam Docherty at half back.
Cerra has been a midfielder from day 1. He didn't train pre-season with the defenders. He doesn't know our defensive systems. That's why we drafted Cincotta.
If you're not going to use the bloke, why list him? Especially when he's coming off a 37 possession game. (And no it's not hindsight, I called for it before the game).

Cerra isn't fast but he's a lot faster than Cripps, he's tough and he runs both ways. But instead of bringing in a defender to replace Doc, we went with names instead of system. Just play Cerra, George and Kennedy at half back. What @#$%&! genius came up with that idea?
Cripps should have been removed from the midfield after the first 10 minutes. There were 11 centre bounces in the first quarter. Cripps attended 10. Adelaide kicked 8 goals.
He's great when he's on song but he's a ball hunter. He'll too often go into a contest when he probably can't win it and leaves his opponent on the outside unattended.
We need to forget the hero worshipping and make moves if the system isn't working. Cripps to the bench or forward pocket. Cerra into the middle with Ed and George and shut it down. Play man on man in the centre square to take away the momentum.

Leadership. FFS, don't wait for the runner. If Cripps knows he's being beaten, make the move yourself. Weitering. Don't punch the ball when you're one out. Show some balls and take a hit if it's coming. To see Hollands, Young and Weitering punch the ball when they thought contact was coming makes me sick. Same for Acres kicking the ball out of the air instead of grabbing it. Players fumbling because they feel the pressure coming.
That's the stuff I'm talking about when you play Blokes like LOB. You send a message that half hearted efforts are accepted. They're not.
Culture is more than running ability and kicking efficiency. Standards have to be set and met by everyone in the jumper.

The strategy of pushing a half forward up to the stoppages is acceptable if he's doing more damage than his opponent but unless it's Sam Walsh, I'm yet to see anyone else succeed. Sheezel looked like a world beater last week in the last quarter. My mother could get possessions running around without an opponent. Meanwhile people talk up Fisher's game last week. Look at who he played on.

Same with our strategy of running a half back into the square at centre bounces. (Doherty's role). It works for Nick Daicos so the rest of the sheep follow suit. You need to win centre clearances for it to work.
How about we come up with some strategies that allow our midfielders to win some contests without everyone coming to bail them out. If they can't, replace them.
I look at Rachele, Papley and other small mids creating havoc at centre bounces. Nimble, fast feet, clean hands. Why not give Durdin a go? He was a mid, he moves well. When your 6,7 or 8 goals down in the first quarter, the status quo needs to be re-addressed.

In saying that, we're still top 8 and we've shown we can compete against the best (Collingwood, Melbourne Rounds 22 and 23 last year)
We just need to get some flexibility into our side, start trusting players to flourish in other roles and forget the hero worshipping.
We have the talent, we just need to find the hunger. Half arsed smother attempts, piss weak tackles. It's time for Vossy to lay down the law. Our soft underbelly was exposed last night and its time to eradicate it. We're still well in the hunt if we can get some issues ironed out.


Catching up on thread, this is the top post so far. No more hero reliance, prioritise system. Darn @#$%&! tootin'.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:27 am 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
I was always concerned as going to Adelaide on there home deck for the start of Gather Round was asking for trouble. The momentum and energy was all their way. Losing Docherty & McGovern hurt badly.

However, it also highlighted some major issues that we have escaped so far this seaoson

1. Our ball movement especially inside 50 is pathetic
2. Our forward structure and postioning is poor
3. Our skills in general are of a low standard
4. We lack genuine depth
5. We are slow through the middle
6. Too many players don't work through the hurt and for 4 quarters. Too many passengers

What happened to the exciting run we had last year? Have we gone too defensive?

This is only a few. The coaches have a lot to work on and it is imperative for our culture that we bounce back hard next week

Great post Farmer, balanced and not hysterical.
IMO these two highlighted points are the most important issues we have to fix.
Our skills all year have been off, handballs to the knees, missing targets with 15m kicks, putting other players under more pressure than they were, key forwards missing shots right in front of goal and long kicks to no targets at all.
Adelaide were clean, blocked for players, tapped to advantage and more importantly when they had a congested F50, they held the ball up and patiently waited for a lead and had the confidence and foot skills to hit the player in the tightest of gaps.
They were changing the tempo between arcs when necessary, unlike us when we seem to do this in blocks of attack or defensive play only.
Their forward line worked as a unit and separated from each other and lead well to spread the defence, something Charlie and McKay still can't do unless way up the ground.
Their midfield had the patience to slowly work the ball out wth handballs and spread our mids creating even more space to make us look like witches hats.
They individually stuck tackles where we had to have multiple tacklers and they still got away.
These are all basic skills we lack or have not been able to do this year for extended periods during a game.

As I said last year, we really needed a quick skilful inside mid that can rack up the numbers and a bonafide ruck.
I personally think we should be shopping around TDK if he wants to go this year and getting in a gun ruck instead.
He is not a ruck and not a forward either and we already have one of those in JSOS and for all his faults he bleeds blue and at least he was at the contest working hard last night.

I also think it's time to give Hollands and Cowan a rest, very average performances by both. Hollands was at 41.7% disposal efficiency (worst in the team), he needs a break, let's not do typical Carlton and destroy these kids, they have real potential.

As for the Voss bashing, FFS it's only his second year and history has proven changing coaches like we have has got us absolutely nowhere so how about we try and stick to one for a few years instead.
Look at Geelong, if Scott was at Carlton he would've been toast many times over in the last 10 years.
And as for comparisons with Fly, Collingwood has a pretty good list with top end mature talent.
The biggest issues we have is injuries and depth, not Voss.

But it is not all doom and gloom, our chances of winning this game were slim and even slimmer with Mitch and Doc out as Farmer has stated.
We have still won more than I predicted, hopefully this is a massive rocket up the ar$e$ of the club and we come out better next week..........it's only rd 4 and we need to keep building.


100%

Hollands could’ve hanballed and hit targets for better Def% but chose to take on the opposition and run with the ball because he didn’t handball to players in worse positions as some do.

It was easy to congest our path because it was obvious we favour one side of the ground. Hollands didn’t like tired to me. He is a Duracell bunny. At one stage after a huge running effort he was tanked and tried to sprint but couldn’t. 10 seconds past, and he was off again making ground quickly.

Who would we replace Hollands with? If he does need a rest then by all means rest him. He’s a gem.

C'mon Bondi even for you this is a bit of a stretch.
If LOB had've had the same performance as Hollands you'd be screaming for his head.
It was defiantly well below what we have seen and expect from him this year, it's why I have suggested he may need a rest.
Not because of his tank, having a good tank and no impact is pretty much worthless as you keep reminding us about LOB.
Just as a side note, when we played the Crows last year LOB's stats were a lot better than Hollands this year and we know Hollands is better than what he produced.

Either way, LOB's performance last week was unacceptable as a club moving forward and he got dropped for it and that is the clubs new standard.
Clearly some others in the team haven't received the same message and it's time for the club to send the message to a few others as well.
Keeping Fisher in has definitely sent the wrong message more so than LOB IMO, he should've been dropped also.
If the coaching department has any balls, they'll make more than the incremental changes we have only seen in the past.
New season, new standards for everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:30 am 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
All the players are here in the Virgin Loung.
They look like losers.
This defeat really stings.

It’s made everyone at the club look silly

It wasn’t the fault of peripheral players.
They owned the corridor.
The water parted and they had a lead up forward.
Do you mean they look like the loss really upset them or they look defeated?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


They looked like a pitiful lot.
Deflated would be right.
No one smiling
Russell working feverishly on his laptop….looked like a table with stats rather than a job application

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:33 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Stefchook wrote:
Pros:
Out tackled the opposition. Something we rarely manage.


I'm guessing we had a higher tackle number than Adelaide in the team stats? Because we certainly didn't beat them on quality. We gave away more tackles for losing our grip and grabbing an ankle than we won for htb. It was possibly the worst aspect of our play, and that's saying something.


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