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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:39 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Having watched the replay again I had a couple thoughts about Fisher.

He must have been saving himself for the last quarter, or Vossy was saving him because he really wasn't involved in first 3 Qtrs

OR

Vossy put a rocket under him and fired him up at 3/4 time, because he defended like a man possessed.

The latter thought tells me Fisher can be useful in applying pressure, but we have a lot of midgets in the 22 with (Owies Motlop & Durdin), who are better tacklers and defenders than Fisher imo.

I don't know what the instructions from Vossy are for Fish, so I will wait to see if Fisher's retained in the 23 with the return of Martin.

I'm expecting Walsh and Kennedy to return this week, and Martin to be over his tight calf.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:50 am 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Having watched the replay again I had a couple thoughts about Fisher.

He must have been saving himself for the last quarter, or Vossy was saving him because he really wasn't involved in first 3 Qtrs

OR

Vossy put a rocket under him and fired him up at 3/4 time, because he defended like a man possessed.

The latter thought tells me Fisher can be useful in applying pressure, but we have a lot of midgets in the 22 with (Owies Motlop & Durdin), who are better tacklers and defenders than Fisher imo.

I don't know what the instructions from Vossy are for Fish, so I will wait to see if Fisher's retained in the 23 with the return of Martin.

I'm expecting Walsh and Kennedy to return this week, and Martin to be over his tight calf.


I think none of the above for Fish, IMO.
When I was watching the game he was constantly in-between players/contests, applying zero pressure to the player getting the ball or when they had it.
He looked like he didn't know where to go.
More importantly a piece of paper would have more weight than him on the field, even the wind can brush him aside.
He has zero physical presence.
They need to send him to training with the Storm for a week.

Somethings not right, because he should be better than that by now.
He looked lost, totally lost.
Not AFL standard at the moment and needs to be dropped for a few to work on his game and positioning.
Even his last quarter was pretty average, if you think about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:09 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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He's, what, 6 years in the system now? And every time, every @#$%&! time, he runs for a handball receive from a stationary player (who has just taken a mark) he runs around so he receives it on his right foot and then either dinks the kick because he can't kick on his opposite, or wastes time having to jink inside to get onto his left, throwing out the leading patterns for the blokes up forward. It's infuriating.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:12 am 
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Geoff Southby
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This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Sidefx wrote:
This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.

Honey only played half a game… he might’ve been twice as poor, or equally ineffective if he’d been out there all game.

Binns might be closer to what’s required for the role that Fisher is being asked to play. Walsh, obviously, is ahead of everyone & probably Cottrell as #2.

Walsh back in the side will move the magnets like that last bit on a rubix cube.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I was going to ask….

is Binns up to it yet…what do those who’ve seen
him think…?

can we deal with 3 first year players in the team…?


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Crusader wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.

Honey only played half a game… he might’ve been twice as poor, or equally ineffective if he’d been out there all game.

Binns might be closer to what’s required for the role that Fisher is being asked to play. Walsh, obviously, is ahead of everyone & probably Cottrell as #2.

Walsh back in the side will move the magnets like that last bit on a rubix cube.


What role is Fisher asked to play? Last quarter he must have been as a defensive mid? First 3 Qtrs HHF?
Hollands and Acres played the wing and it seemed LOP played HF when he came on in the 2nd qtr and for the remainder of the game.

I've seen Binns 4 weeks in a row. I've seen enough for this first half of 2023, and will hope he shows steady improvement.
He has a long way to go. Only a skinny 18yo.

All this talk about his running up and down monotonously (ie non stop) is bullshit. He has his recovery periods like every one else except Hollands.
He's got a long way to go. There's more to being a footballer than the ability to run.
His kicking needs work, and if you reckon Fisher is small and light, well Binns is even smaller.
Binns was played on a wing in all 4 reserves games.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Crusader wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.

Honey only played half a game… he might’ve been twice as poor, or equally ineffective if he’d been out there all game.

Binns might be closer to what’s required for the role that Fisher is being asked to play. Walsh, obviously, is ahead of everyone & probably Cottrell as #2.

Walsh back in the side will move the magnets like that last bit on a rubix cube.


I dont think Honey played more than a quarter. Didnt see him after quarter time.
He's been emergency 2 weeks in a row. He's on the cusp of senior selection.
Coaches must see something in him. Still young and a lot to learn.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:32 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.

Honey only played half a game… he might’ve been twice as poor, or equally ineffective if he’d been out there all game.

Binns might be closer to what’s required for the role that Fisher is being asked to play. Walsh, obviously, is ahead of everyone & probably Cottrell as #2.

Walsh back in the side will move the magnets like that last bit on a rubix cube.


I dont think Honey played more than a quarter. Didnt see him after quarter time.
He's been emergency 2 weeks in a row. He's on the cusp of senior selection.
Coaches must see something in him. Still young and a lot to learn.

I didn't watch the VFL so if Honey only played a quarter and we don't get Walsh back in the team, I'd prefer to see him have a run over another week of Fisher.
I rewatched the last quarter and although Fisher had a couple of plays where he used his speed and evasiveness, he was still ineffective.
0 Tackles, Clearances, Goal Assists, Goals and Behinds pretty much says it all.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
This too, I agree.
I'm really confused as to what position he should play.
Too small for midfield, not smart/skilful enough around the ball for a small forward and hasn't got the tank for the wings.
His only strength is his speed but because he can't apply body pressure, lacks a defensive side and has a poor kick he couldn't even play a half back role.

I like Fish but can't see any position for him other than the VFL, I'm guessing Voss is just waiting for Martin and Owies to return now.
Honey had an average one in the VFL, so he won't be in contention for a bit either.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh but I really hoped he would've stepped it up this year.
We desperately need depth around the ground.

Honey only played half a game… he might’ve been twice as poor, or equally ineffective if he’d been out there all game.

Binns might be closer to what’s required for the role that Fisher is being asked to play. Walsh, obviously, is ahead of everyone & probably Cottrell as #2.

Walsh back in the side will move the magnets like that last bit on a rubix cube.


What role is Fisher asked to play? Last quarter he must have been as a defensive mid? First 3 Qtrs HHF?
Hollands and Acres played the wing and it seemed LOP played HF when he came on in the 2nd qtr and for the remainder of the game.

I've seen Binns 4 weeks in a row. I've seen enough for this first half of 2023, and will hope he shows steady improvement.
He has a long way to go. Only a skinny 18yo.

All this talk about his running up and down monotonously (ie non stop) is bullshit. He has his recovery periods like every one else except Hollands.
He's got a long way to go. There's more to being a footballer than the ability to run.
His kicking needs work, and if you reckon Fisher is small and light, well Binns is even smaller.
Binns was played on a wing in all 4 reserves games.

Binns is miles off (probably 5th or 6th in line with a fit list) but he’s closer to the type we’re after as a high half forward. He’s not as downhill as Fisher.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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So….

don’t put Binns out till next week…?


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:56 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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tommi wrote:
So….

don’t put Binns out till next week…?


kindest regards tommi

Correct.

Even if you have Fish in them.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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tommi wrote:
So….

don’t put Binns out till next week…?


kindest regards tommi



But where’s he really been.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/04/04/ ... the-blues/

Agreed.

We play our worst football when the midfield strategy is Cripps going head-to-head with the opposition's best midfielder. It's just a domino effect of another midfielder covering Cripps' bloke, that guy's opponent gets off the chain, and we're too easily opened up as a result.

Green was far more damaging with less touches, especially to half-time. We can't play four blokes in the same side who have no assigned opponent and allowed to do as they please, especially when they're either so reluctant or not very good in deciding to lock down on an opponent when the momentum goes against us.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Seconded. That's why I had Crippa behind Newman and Saad in the MVP. He did a great job getting first use, but his kicking was poor and F50 entries appalling. Possession counts are overrated.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:44 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I thought Cripps had a great game. He just needs to have his role further defined. From memory he received a handball from McGovern at H/F in the last quarter and blasted it straight toward goal where it fell short by 15m to a GWS player. McGovern was facing our forwards and I'd prefer him kicking the ball 100% of the time.
They're the aspects of Cripps' game that the coaches need to better manage. He's an inside bull. His job isn't to receive handballs from superior kicks. I thought Vossy had knocked it out of his game but it resurfaces a couple of times a game.

But on the whole, I thought he was enormous. Yes his disposal was poor (which it almost always is) but he won countless contests where he beat 2,3 or 4 opposition players by himself. It was like an adult playing against Under 15's. Without him we would have lost by several goals IMHO.

Our biggest issue is our ball movement. To see the opposition get 2 goals in the first 10 minutes of the game going unimpeded from point kick ins was extremely poor. Conversely our ball movement from defence to our forward 50 is equally disappointing. A perfect example was a kick in the 3rd? quarter where McGovern perfectly hit a risky 40m inside kick from the back pocket to CHB and Docherty marked it. Most other teams would have been off on an attacking wave through the middle of the ground. Dochery held it up and we chipped it back to the boundary. We need to be better. If we cant play with varying gears, we'll be too easily defended and we're wasting running defenders.
It's where we miss Zac Williams significantly and even Jordan Boyd. I'd also bring in Cincotta this week and give the young Tassie kid a week off.

It's time for Ash Hansen to step up and earn his pay as senior assistant coach.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:15 am 
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John James
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Blue Vain wrote:
I thought Cripps had a great game. He just needs to have his role further defined. From memory he received a handball from McGovern at H/F in the last quarter and blasted it straight toward goal where it fell short by 15m to a GWS player. McGovern was facing our forwards and I'd prefer him kicking the ball 100% of the time.
They're the aspects of Cripps' game that the coaches need to better manage. He's an inside bull. His job isn't to receive handballs from superior kicks. I thought Vossy had knocked it out of his game but it resurfaces a couple of times a game.

But on the whole, I thought he was enormous. Yes his disposal was poor (which it almost always is) but he won countless contests where he beat 2,3 or 4 opposition players by himself. It was like an adult playing against Under 15's. Without him we would have lost by several goals IMHO.

Our biggest issue is our ball movement. To see the opposition get 2 goals in the first 10 minutes of the game going unimpeded from point kick ins was extremely poor. Conversely our ball movement from defence to our forward 50 is equally disappointing. A perfect example was a kick in the 3rd? quarter where McGovern perfectly hit a risky 40m inside kick from the back pocket to CHB and Docherty marked it. Most other teams would have been off on an attacking wave through the middle of the ground. Dochery held it up and we chipped it back to the boundary. We need to be better. If we cant play with varying gears, we'll be too easily defended and we're wasting running defenders.
It's where we miss Zac Williams significantly and even Jordan Boyd. I'd also bring in Cincotta this week and give the young Tassie kid a week off.

It's time for Ash Hansen to step up and earn his pay as senior assistant coach.


Excellent analysis BV. Our transitions are ordinary. Likewise Cripps' foot skills. Not convinced Ash Hansen is the right man for his role.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:39 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Blue Vain wrote:
I thought Cripps had a great game. He just needs to have his role further defined. From memory he received a handball from McGovern at H/F in the last quarter and blasted it straight toward goal where it fell short by 15m to a GWS player. McGovern was facing our forwards and I'd prefer him kicking the ball 100% of the time.
They're the aspects of Cripps' game that the coaches need to better manage. He's an inside bull. His job isn't to receive handballs from superior kicks. I thought Vossy had knocked it out of his game but it resurfaces a couple of times a game.

But on the whole, I thought he was enormous. Yes his disposal was poor (which it almost always is) but he won countless contests where he beat 2,3 or 4 opposition players by himself. It was like an adult playing against Under 15's. Without him we would have lost by several goals IMHO.

Our biggest issue is our ball movement. To see the opposition get 2 goals in the first 10 minutes of the game going unimpeded from point kick ins was extremely poor. Conversely our ball movement from defence to our forward 50 is equally disappointing. A perfect example was a kick in the 3rd? quarter where McGovern perfectly hit a risky 40m inside kick from the back pocket to CHB and Docherty marked it. Most other teams would have been off on an attacking wave through the middle of the ground. Dochery held it up and we chipped it back to the boundary. We need to be better. If we cant play with varying gears, we'll be too easily defended and we're wasting running defenders.
It's where we miss Zac Williams significantly and even Jordan Boyd. I'd also bring in Cincotta this week and give the young Tassie kid a week off.

It's time for Ash Hansen to step up and earn his pay as senior assistant coach.


Thought his game at the contest was fantastic also, but tactically, having him go head to head with Green, rather than assigning Ed or Hewett to him was a mistake. I feel like the current tactic of deploying Ed late in the game to the opposition best midfielder is not to our advantage, I think teams are going to be happy to take that risk, because we're not a difficult side to score against.

I'm concerned about our ability as a team to defend from opposition kick-outs. Last in the competition for tackles inside 50 (comp average of 10.3, compared to 6.3), fourth highest opposition average to score launch from opposition 50, highest ratio of opposition scoring shots to inside 50s.

Speaks to your point around Cripps having a clearly defined role - I suspect we differ on what that role looks like, but for now I'd like to see that be more of a team focus rather than just his physical attributes being worlds ahead of anyone else.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:21 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/04/04/how-cripps-42-touch-game-ranked-and-what-saad-is-doing-to-prop-up-the-blues/

Agreed.

We play our worst football when the midfield strategy is Cripps going head-to-head with the opposition's best midfielder. It's just a domino effect of another midfielder covering Cripps' bloke, that guy's opponent gets off the chain, and we're too easily opened up as a result.

Green was far more damaging with less touches, especially to half-time. We can't play four blokes in the same side who have no assigned opponent and allowed to do as they please, especially when they're either so reluctant or not very good in deciding to lock down on an opponent when the momentum goes against us.



That's a report based on ONE game: his last game vs GWS.

The main criticism in that report is his kicking in this game. Basically suggesting if he continues this trend his total output will be his worst since 2015. If his uncle had tits.''

Totally get your point though Spooky. But Cripps is focussed on the contest, and the next one, and one after that. The opposition should worry about his domionance in the contest and at times he attracted 2-3 opponents leaving our guys on the outside, in a closely fought game, and in this game willed himself to more contests than anyone on the ground. I'd rather look at Green losing the contest as a tagger than Cripps losing for his clangers. Cripps was mammoth, and I wish he'd leave the kicking miraculous goals to those who can kick. His role is distributor by hand. He did that, and I wish he'd leave the kicking to others.

He has to go back to sharing the ball.

I recall Hollands running on the outside in a good position to accept the handball from Cripps, but Cripps decided to go alone and was a shit kick forward. That is the stuff that upset a lot of fans. Share the load, and dont try and be the super hero by foot.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:23 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I thought Cripps had a great game. He just needs to have his role further defined. From memory he received a handball from McGovern at H/F in the last quarter and blasted it straight toward goal where it fell short by 15m to a GWS player. McGovern was facing our forwards and I'd prefer him kicking the ball 100% of the time.
They're the aspects of Cripps' game that the coaches need to better manage. He's an inside bull. His job isn't to receive handballs from superior kicks. I thought Vossy had knocked it out of his game but it resurfaces a couple of times a game.

But on the whole, I thought he was enormous. Yes his disposal was poor (which it almost always is) but he won countless contests where he beat 2,3 or 4 opposition players by himself. It was like an adult playing against Under 15's. Without him we would have lost by several goals IMHO.

Our biggest issue is our ball movement. To see the opposition get 2 goals in the first 10 minutes of the game going unimpeded from point kick ins was extremely poor. Conversely our ball movement from defence to our forward 50 is equally disappointing. A perfect example was a kick in the 3rd? quarter where McGovern perfectly hit a risky 40m inside kick from the back pocket to CHB and Docherty marked it. Most other teams would have been off on an attacking wave through the middle of the ground. Dochery held it up and we chipped it back to the boundary. We need to be better. If we cant play with varying gears, we'll be too easily defended and we're wasting running defenders.
It's where we miss Zac Williams significantly and even Jordan Boyd. I'd also bring in Cincotta this week and give the young Tassie kid a week off.

It's time for Ash Hansen to step up and earn his pay as senior assistant coach.


Thought his game at the contest was fantastic also, but tactically, having him go head to head with Green, rather than assigning Ed or Hewett to him was a mistake. I feel like the current tactic of deploying Ed late in the game to the opposition best midfielder is not to our advantage, I think teams are going to be happy to take that risk, because we're not a difficult side to score against.

I'm concerned about our ability as a team to defend from opposition kick-outs. Last in the competition for tackles inside 50 (comp average of 10.3, compared to 6.3), fourth highest opposition average to score launch from opposition 50, highest ratio of opposition scoring shots to inside 50s.

Speaks to your point around Cripps having a clearly defined role - I suspect we differ on what that role looks like, but for now I'd like to see that be more of a team focus rather than just his physical attributes being worlds ahead of anyone else.


True, and it was awful, but rectified.

How was this end to end goal kicking attributed to Cripps? You rightly said its a team defence issue that needs to be switched on from start to finish, week in week out.

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