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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:48 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Doc didn't play any midfield time?

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:20 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Quote:
Hand injury puts tough Blue in doubt for Cats clash - https://www.afl.com.au/news/886967


Hewett needs to pass a fitness test today for a hand injury (stood on).

I think Dow is just one of those guys who's a good VFL player but not quite AFL level.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:48 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Rotate Doc in the middle if George doesn't get up.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:07 am 
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Robert Walls
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Traveller86 wrote:
Rotate Doc in the middle if George doesn't get up.


Dow has to come in based on VFL form if Hewett doesn't play - and yes rotate Doc through the middle

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
AGRO wrote:
There are times when a deft tap to a player in the clear - rather than taking possession and taking the tackle is the best option.

Yep.
I've watched a few games this round and I really hoped in the off season we would've worked on tapping the ball to players when under pressure and running hard to block for them when players take possession or are about to.
The better teams do this all the time and is one of our major weaknesses IMO.

It's a whole team problem and if we want to become a running defending/attacking team, these are the two basics we need to master.


You already know this but there are three modes of play: you've got the ball, your opponent has the ball, the ball is in dispute.

Tapping is a skill that can only be done when ball is in dispute (clearly).

It's not as simple as "practice tapping the ball to advantage". Tapping is easy. But if your whole team isn't in on the play and is structured to support it right around the ground, it's easy to tap to dis-advantage and turn the ball over while your own teammates are out of position.

So what you appear to be saying is, you hoped we would play another "brand" of chaos/surge football a-la Bitchmond and C**wood.

Sadly we simply aren't fast enough on the ground. We're not set up for that kind of football. It's been a problem for years - too slow right around the ground. Who is our around-the-ball, super nimble, super quick player with exquisite skills? Who's our pickett, who's our bolton, who's our tyson stengle, top clubs have a few of these types on their list.... do we have one? Name one???

If we win the contested ball (ball is in dispute) as Voss keeps harping on about and if we maintain possession with effective patterns and delivery then the affects of all of this chaos, running off half back schtick can be nullified. If we can't win the footy, and if we can't keep possession and maintain connection - we'll get beat.

Two diametrically opposed basic principles of football I suppose. We'll soon see if the School of Voss or the School of Hardwick/McRae wins out...


In that instance with 15 sec to go, the ball was in dispute and a tap forward was of absolutely zero risk other than giving away a 50m penalty somehow.
But you can't blame LOB for holding it up either, it's most likely been drilled into him all off season.

I believe that has been our brand of footy up until RD1 game, we just haven't been good at it like Bitchmond, CWood, Melbourne, Geelong...........
It was definitely how we were playing last season and the first half of the year paid off, we just couldn't/didn't develop it with heavy injuries being a key factor.
And if we have now changed to a stop start, hold the ball up, controlled possession game, why draft/trade in 3 elite running players?
I agree we don't have the speed or skill around the ball (as you know I've been banging on about it since the draft) of a Pickett or a Bolton but tapping to players in space or a better position doesn't really require that speed, it's a skill that creates space and time to help that deficiency in the list.
Oliver and Petracca aren't really blessed with Pickett or Bolton speed either.
Also tapping to a player then immediately proceeding to block for them doesn't require speed and neither does blocking for them if an opposition player looks like they are about to take possession of the ball in dispute. You have to admit, a lot of our players tend to move the ball along then spectate and their second and third efforts are usually pretty lacklustre, if they even have them.
None of this is chaos footy IMO, it's mostly basic footy and a well drilled game plan.
I agree also, player awareness and under pressure decision making is hard to train, but then again the military can somehow make people act without thinking under life and death situations, so I'm sure we can do it with footballers.

In the highlighted part I agree and in reality we probably should've been flogged in that game, it was luck IMO that we weren't.
So if we are going to continue to play this nullifying possession game plan then our forwards need better leading patterns and our mids need better, faster delivery to them.
We were picked off time and time again with 2 and 3 on 1 situations. We were just lucky our defence was so solid.

And my personal opinion of a nullifying possession game plan is it's too outdated to play a whole 4 quarters or even a full quarter, yes we need to be able to control tempo and slow or stop an opposition's run just as much as we need to be able to attack at full speed, create space and hit leads lace out.
And I feel tapping and blocking are a necessity to do this to give our forwards the best chance to take marks in the F50.
So I hope Voss is just getting whole team practice in before we go back to taking the game on again like last season.

Maybe I'm missing something or I'm getting too old to see the new way of football, who knows.
But I'm still glad we didn't get flogged.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
Doc didn't play any midfield time?

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


Just as I thought. :thumbsup:

I didn’t see much of Doc in the midfield.
Even when he kicked his goal he was following his man.
There wasn’t many between Doc and the Richmond goals when he took that mark and goal Ed.
Looked like a super press or a super flood by Richmond with that one

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Talk of Blicavs going down back to help the Geelong backline.

Pittonet must come in this week, push TDK up forward to exploit their depleted defence.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I think I'd rather Cripps take Blicavs with him to the forward line.

No Duncan, no Selwood. I'd rather back Cerra and Hewett to win the footy and try a different number of looks at the centre bounce set up.

As I've said elsewhere, I don't think you can play Docherty and Saad behind the ball and unaccountable for a man. Rotate Doc and Dow in at the centre bounce set up. Cripps as the third tall in the forward line. If Harry or Charlie get off the leash on Esava, they're probably going to have to move Blicavs onto one of them, then you move Cripps back in there.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:57 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Sidefx wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
AGRO wrote:
There are times when a deft tap to a player in the clear - rather than taking possession and taking the tackle is the best option.

Yep.
I've watched a few games this round and I really hoped in the off season we would've worked on tapping the ball to players when under pressure and running hard to block for them when players take possession or are about to.
The better teams do this all the time and is one of our major weaknesses IMO.

It's a whole team problem and if we want to become a running defending/attacking team, these are the two basics we need to master.


You already know this but there are three modes of play: you've got the ball, your opponent has the ball, the ball is in dispute.

Tapping is a skill that can only be done when ball is in dispute (clearly).

It's not as simple as "practice tapping the ball to advantage". Tapping is easy. But if your whole team isn't in on the play and is structured to support it right around the ground, it's easy to tap to dis-advantage and turn the ball over while your own teammates are out of position.

So what you appear to be saying is, you hoped we would play another "brand" of chaos/surge football a-la Bitchmond and C**wood.

Sadly we simply aren't fast enough on the ground. We're not set up for that kind of football. It's been a problem for years - too slow right around the ground. Who is our around-the-ball, super nimble, super quick player with exquisite skills? Who's our pickett, who's our bolton, who's our tyson stengle, top clubs have a few of these types on their list.... do we have one? Name one???

If we win the contested ball (ball is in dispute) as Voss keeps harping on about and if we maintain possession with effective patterns and delivery then the affects of all of this chaos, running off half back schtick can be nullified. If we can't win the footy, and if we can't keep possession and maintain connection - we'll get beat.

Two diametrically opposed basic principles of football I suppose. We'll soon see if the School of Voss or the School of Hardwick/McRae wins out...


In that instance with 15 sec to go, the ball was in dispute and a tap forward was of absolutely zero risk other than giving away a 50m penalty somehow.
But you can't blame LOB for holding it up either, it's most likely been drilled into him all off season.

I believe that has been our brand of footy up until RD1 game, we just haven't been good at it like Bitchmond, CWood, Melbourne, Geelong...........
It was definitely how we were playing last season and the first half of the year paid off, we just couldn't/didn't develop it with heavy injuries being a key factor.
And if we have now changed to a stop start, hold the ball up, controlled possession game, why draft/trade in 3 elite running players?
I agree we don't have the speed or skill around the ball (as you know I've been banging on about it since the draft) of a Pickett or a Bolton but tapping to players in space or a better position doesn't really require that speed, it's a skill that creates space and time to help that deficiency in the list.
Oliver and Petracca aren't really blessed with Pickett or Bolton speed either.
Also tapping to a player then immediately proceeding to block for them doesn't require speed and neither does blocking for them if an opposition player looks like they are about to take possession of the ball in dispute. You have to admit, a lot of our players tend to move the ball along then spectate and their second and third efforts are usually pretty lacklustre, if they even have them.
None of this is chaos footy IMO, it's mostly basic footy and a well drilled game plan.
I agree also, player awareness and under pressure decision making is hard to train, but then again the military can somehow make people act without thinking under life and death situations, so I'm sure we can do it with footballers.

In the highlighted part I agree and in reality we probably should've been flogged in that game, it was luck IMO that we weren't.
So if we are going to continue to play this nullifying possession game plan then our forwards need better leading patterns and our mids need better, faster delivery to them.
We were picked off time and time again with 2 and 3 on 1 situations. We were just lucky our defence was so solid.

And my personal opinion of a nullifying possession game plan is it's too outdated to play a whole 4 quarters or even a full quarter, yes we need to be able to control tempo and slow or stop an opposition's run just as much as we need to be able to attack at full speed, create space and hit leads lace out.
And I feel tapping and blocking are a necessity to do this to give our forwards the best chance to take marks in the F50.
So I hope Voss is just getting whole team practice in before we go back to taking the game on again like last season.

Maybe I'm missing something or I'm getting too old to see the new way of football, who knows.
But I'm still glad we didn't get flogged.


All good points and I appreciate the perspective. I agree with much of what you've said except one point - a chaos, tap forward style game plan needs speed. Melbourne doesn't play that brand of football, they (and their midfield) are more like what we do than say for example Bitchmond and the Colliwobbles.

I'd suggest Sydney has the best "blend" of both modes and a list that supports this. They're also among the most well drilled sides in the comp and have the best feeder system. Everyone knows what their role is and by the time they play senior footy it's instinctive.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:04 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Its hilarious that Voss says we don't have a problem with close finishes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
AGRO wrote:
There are times when a deft tap to a player in the clear - rather than taking possession and taking the tackle is the best option.

Yep.
I've watched a few games this round and I really hoped in the off season we would've worked on tapping the ball to players when under pressure and running hard to block for them when players take possession or are about to.
The better teams do this all the time and is one of our major weaknesses IMO.

It's a whole team problem and if we want to become a running defending/attacking team, these are the two basics we need to master.


You already know this but there are three modes of play: you've got the ball, your opponent has the ball, the ball is in dispute.

Tapping is a skill that can only be done when ball is in dispute (clearly).

It's not as simple as "practice tapping the ball to advantage". Tapping is easy. But if your whole team isn't in on the play and is structured to support it right around the ground, it's easy to tap to dis-advantage and turn the ball over while your own teammates are out of position.

So what you appear to be saying is, you hoped we would play another "brand" of chaos/surge football a-la Bitchmond and C**wood.

Sadly we simply aren't fast enough on the ground. We're not set up for that kind of football. It's been a problem for years - too slow right around the ground. Who is our around-the-ball, super nimble, super quick player with exquisite skills? Who's our pickett, who's our bolton, who's our tyson stengle, top clubs have a few of these types on their list.... do we have one? Name one???

If we win the contested ball (ball is in dispute) as Voss keeps harping on about and if we maintain possession with effective patterns and delivery then the affects of all of this chaos, running off half back schtick can be nullified. If we can't win the footy, and if we can't keep possession and maintain connection - we'll get beat.

Two diametrically opposed basic principles of football I suppose. We'll soon see if the School of Voss or the School of Hardwick/McRae wins out...


In that instance with 15 sec to go, the ball was in dispute and a tap forward was of absolutely zero risk other than giving away a 50m penalty somehow.
But you can't blame LOB for holding it up either, it's most likely been drilled into him all off season.

I believe that has been our brand of footy up until RD1 game, we just haven't been good at it like Bitchmond, CWood, Melbourne, Geelong...........
It was definitely how we were playing last season and the first half of the year paid off, we just couldn't/didn't develop it with heavy injuries being a key factor.
And if we have now changed to a stop start, hold the ball up, controlled possession game, why draft/trade in 3 elite running players?
I agree we don't have the speed or skill around the ball (as you know I've been banging on about it since the draft) of a Pickett or a Bolton but tapping to players in space or a better position doesn't really require that speed, it's a skill that creates space and time to help that deficiency in the list.
Oliver and Petracca aren't really blessed with Pickett or Bolton speed either.
Also tapping to a player then immediately proceeding to block for them doesn't require speed and neither does blocking for them if an opposition player looks like they are about to take possession of the ball in dispute. You have to admit, a lot of our players tend to move the ball along then spectate and their second and third efforts are usually pretty lacklustre, if they even have them.
None of this is chaos footy IMO, it's mostly basic footy and a well drilled game plan.
I agree also, player awareness and under pressure decision making is hard to train, but then again the military can somehow make people act without thinking under life and death situations, so I'm sure we can do it with footballers.

In the highlighted part I agree and in reality we probably should've been flogged in that game, it was luck IMO that we weren't.
So if we are going to continue to play this nullifying possession game plan then our forwards need better leading patterns and our mids need better, faster delivery to them.
We were picked off time and time again with 2 and 3 on 1 situations. We were just lucky our defence was so solid.

And my personal opinion of a nullifying possession game plan is it's too outdated to play a whole 4 quarters or even a full quarter, yes we need to be able to control tempo and slow or stop an opposition's run just as much as we need to be able to attack at full speed, create space and hit leads lace out.
And I feel tapping and blocking are a necessity to do this to give our forwards the best chance to take marks in the F50.
So I hope Voss is just getting whole team practice in before we go back to taking the game on again like last season.

Maybe I'm missing something or I'm getting too old to see the new way of football, who knows.
But I'm still glad we didn't get flogged.


All good points and I appreciate the perspective. I agree with much of what you've said except one point - a chaos, tap forward style game plan needs speed. Melbourne doesn't play that brand of football, they (and their midfield) are more like what we do than say for example Bitchmond and the Colliwobbles.

I'd suggest Sydney has the best "blend" of both modes and a list that supports this. They're also among the most well drilled sides in the comp and have the best feeder system. Everyone knows what their role is and by the time they play senior footy it's instinctive.

Ahh....now I see where you are coming from.
I didn't mean a tap forward to space game style, yes you do need speed for that, lots of it.
I meant instead of taking possession for a rushed handball or kick, tap it to another player outside of the contest to their advantage in any direction.
Less possession type footy in the heat of the contest to create space and time for better positioning and ultimately, better ball movement and decision making.

I agree with what you've said about the above teams, although at times I think Melbourne can play that way as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Paddycripps wrote:
Its hilarious that Voss says we don't have a problem with close finishes.


We don't. We've had 3 in our last 3 games.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Need our bottom 6 to do more
Our Small forwards and Wings especially. Not covering enough ground and doing enough work
Pittonet must come in
If Hewett not fit I'd bring in Jack Carroll. Another hard nose type

Whatever happens we need more effort overall and take the game on through the middle. Our contested ball was the worst in 12 months. Need to get it inside 50 quick to give McKay Curnow Motlop Martin a chance


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sam Edmund going with Hewett out

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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I see this game as one being played by two teams who both want to gain territory by maintaining control of the ball. I will be interested to see if we have improved compared to last year. When we had the ball they just channeled us to play into areas of the ground they controlled. If we have improved and are able to pick our way through their defensive setup then I think we can win in a close one - 1 point.

GO BLUES!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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OUT: G Hewett
IN: C Durdin

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No Pitto??

WTF


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Carlton v Geelong at the MCG, 7.20pm AEDT

CARLTON

In: C.Durdin
Out: G.Hewett (injured), L.O'Brien (Medi-Sub)

Last week's sub: Lochie O'Brien

GEELONG

In: J.Bowes
Out: T.Stewart (injured), B.Parfitt (Medi-Sub)

Last week's sub: Brandan Parfitt

New: Jack Bowes, Cooper Whyte

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Not feeling it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:29 pm 
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Robert Walls
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wow - that's a bad out for us.

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