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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:22 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Not everything that fails to come off is a stuff up. I think LOB did what he was brought on the ground to do - gain territory and break through a line with fresh legs. He didn’t have half an hour to make a decision. It didn’t work out, but I don’t have a problem with what he did. And Voss didn’t seem unhappy with him at all when it was mentioned in the presser.

“As a said earlier, if we are going to obsess over mistakes in the last minute - look no further than Weitering (who I love) and Acres. I’m sure they would like to have their time again.


For those watching at home….

Carlton’s substitute Lochie O’Brien had the ball in his hands in space going forward, with behind the ground vision showing key forward Harry McKay in acres of space inside 50.

However, O’Brien bounced the footy, with the ball not quite coming back to him, delaying his kick inside 50 and allowing three Richmond defenders to get to McKay, who then slipped over himself.

“He was about 80m clear, Harry,” King told SEN Breakfast.

“There are three security guards on the fence. They were his closest combatants.

“It’s one thing to teach, it’s another thing to learn. Lochie O’Brien had no idea what he was doing late in the game. No idea. ‘Dumb players get you sacked’ is a Robert Walls-ism. He would’ve been furious this morning.”

If O’Brien had kicked the footy when he should have instead of holding onto it (which was obvious to everyone at the ground and on the ground except O’Brien!!!), Harry would have had enough time to fall over 3 times and still get the footy to ice the game!!!



It was quite funny discussing this with all my Carlton friends/colleagues etc, all those watching at home said it was a great pass and McKay shouldn’t have slipped over and those at the game said Obrien had no awareness and should have kicked it much earlier.

I’m buying the opinion of those who were at the game.



:lol:


I was at the game and it would have been a miracle kick to get it to McKay the first time. The kick he did do was perfect but McKay slipped over. If he hadn't we probably would have one



I’ve been hearing and reading for years LOB is an elite kick.

Miraculous kick? LOB could have kicked it to Harry if this and if that…..

Is he an elite kick or not? Is he a smart enough footballer to work it out?

Look it doesn’t really matter. We all have our own take on it. What really irks me is regardless of what LOB did is why was a 200cm KPF, albeit quick n mobile, without a wingman. You know a small running hard to give Harry ground support.

Harry was 3 on 1. Story of 2022 and story of the night. At least one should be at the feet of Harry and Charlie. They will not mark half of their attempts. Team defence sucked the smalls into the backline.

Hopefully we tweak things a bit to ensure there’s at least one small. I love the pace of Durdin and Motley. We have the personnel to fix things. We just need to tweak the method and structure.

I love a lot of what I saw. We will play Finals if we can defend like that when we have to. It’s the last minutes when in front we still haven’t got right. Get the two things right and away we go with the close games.

We should only play fit players in this energy sapping game style.

Martin must be dropped.
Fisher is too light on and doesn’t know how to impose himself physically.
Owies is tough but limited.
Blake was fantastic in his Final game last year in the Finals and last 2 praccy games. He will improve

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:34 am 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Not everything that fails to come off is a stuff up. I think LOB did what he was brought on the ground to do - gain territory and break through a line with fresh legs. He didn’t have half an hour to make a decision. It didn’t work out, but I don’t have a problem with what he did. And Voss didn’t seem unhappy with him at all when it was mentioned in the presser.

“As a said earlier, if we are going to obsess over mistakes in the last minute - look no further than Weitering (who I love) and Acres. I’m sure they would like to have their time again.


For those watching at home….

Carlton’s substitute Lochie O’Brien had the ball in his hands in space going forward, with behind the ground vision showing key forward Harry McKay in acres of space inside 50.

However, O’Brien bounced the footy, with the ball not quite coming back to him, delaying his kick inside 50 and allowing three Richmond defenders to get to McKay, who then slipped over himself.

“He was about 80m clear, Harry,” King told SEN Breakfast.

“There are three security guards on the fence. They were his closest combatants.

“It’s one thing to teach, it’s another thing to learn. Lochie O’Brien had no idea what he was doing late in the game. No idea. ‘Dumb players get you sacked’ is a Robert Walls-ism. He would’ve been furious this morning.”

If O’Brien had kicked the footy when he should have instead of holding onto it (which was obvious to everyone at the ground and on the ground except O’Brien!!!), Harry would have had enough time to fall over 3 times and still get the footy to ice the game!!!



It was quite funny discussing this with all my Carlton friends/colleagues etc, all those watching at home said it was a great pass and McKay shouldn’t have slipped over and those at the game said Obrien had no awareness and should have kicked it much earlier.

I’m buying the opinion of those who were at the game.



:lol:


I was at the game and it would have been a miracle kick to get it to McKay the first time. The kick he did do was perfect but McKay slipped over. If he hadn't we probably would have one



I’ve been hearing and reading for years LOB is an elite kick.

Miraculous kick? LOB could have kicked it to Harry if this and if that…..

Is he an elite kick or not? Is he a smart enough footballer to work it out?

Look it doesn’t really matter. We all have our own take on it. What really irks me is regardless of what LOB did is why was a 200cm KPF, albeit quick n mobile, without a wingman. You know a small running hard to give Harry ground support.

Harry was 3 on 1. Story of 2022 and story of the night. At least one should be at the feet of Harry and Charlie. They will not mark half of their attempts. Team defence sucked the smalls into the backline.


It would have had to have been a 60m kick back across his body. Reality

He took the game on and ran and then at full speed kicked it in between 3 players right to Harry. Unfortunately Harry fell over. If he hadn't we would have won.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:38 am 
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Harry Vallence

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SurreyBlue wrote:
Question, If O’Brien’s bounces have given 3 or 4 Bitchmond players time to get back and contest, why didn’t our players?


True


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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For once I agree with David King.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:09 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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There's too much to go into but overall our game plan and structures are pathetic.
We are picking the wrong players for their application and not to our strengths and also too slow in general.
I have no love for obrien but he took on and beat his opponent unfortunately the kick made Mckay come back towards the ball in effect making his slip over because of the newly laid turf. if the ball was a couple of meters closer to the boundary it would have been game over.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The_Cranium wrote:
Hornet wrote:
Same shit... at least we won't miss the finals due to poor %


Unless it's to Richmond
or if we draw again

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:53 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:
“There are three security guards on the fence. They were his closest combatants.



It would have had to have been a 60m kick back across his body. Reality

He took the game on and ran and then at full speed kicked it in between 3 players right to Harry. Unfortunately Harry fell over. If he hadn't we would have won.


Ok…reality… your reality. Fair enough.
:wink:

So, you say, 60 metres across his body but chose to take the game on.

And we all agree LOB is quicker than Harry.

If so, how did Harry run to be 30 metres ahead of LOB ie in front of him for a pass?

My point is that LOB wasn’t measured and he knew there was a backman or was it men ahead of him. Did he not see Harry on his own to work out how to get the ball hard and high in front of Harry’s run?

I don’t want to go into it, but I can’t accept that LOB had no option but to do what he did…and I have my opinion as to why.

Funny how both Farmer and I were at the game and see things differently, sitting in different spots, perhaps with our own bias too.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:55 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
“There are three security guards on the fence. They were his closest combatants.



It would have had to have been a 60m kick back across his body. Reality

He took the game on and ran and then at full speed kicked it in between 3 players right to Harry. Unfortunately Harry fell over. If he hadn't we would have won.


Ok…reality… your reality. Fair enough.


So, you say, 60 metres across his body but chose to take the game on.

And we all agree LOB is quicker than Harry.

If so, how did Harry run to be 30 metres ahead of LOB ie in front of him for a pass?

My point is that LOB wasn’t measured and he knew there was a backman or was it men ahead of him. Did he not see Harry on his own to work out how to get the ball hard and high in front of Harry’s run?

I don’t want to go into it, but I can’t accept that LOB had no option but to do what he did…and I have my opinion as to why.

Funny how both Farmer and I were at the game and see things differently, sitting in different spots, perhaps with our own bias too :wink: .[/I quote]

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Must move on….

there were many opportunities for both teams…
and both teams muffed their charnces…!

Tiges were favourites…lets take our 2 points and
sneak away quietly…it’s a long season…and
really…we have MANY areas to improve in still…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:37 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Bondi but you may want to watch the replay.
1. LOB only slowed his pace after the bounce went wrong.
2. He was about 10-15m outside the 50m arc when he kicked it to Harry who was about 20-25m inside the arc himself, but wide open.
Should've he kept running to the 50 and had a shot on goal himself?
That would've been a pretty low % play IMO, especially with Rioli still hot on his tail.
His mistake for me was bouncing the ball that last time instead of running another 5m and kicking it.
Just bad luck that was.


You’re right about the distances sidey but the point is Rioli was labouring against fresh legs and was chasing LOB and if LOB had a tail no way Rioli was near enough to grab it, and there was plenty of opportunity for LOB to continue running into the 50 or have a ping from 50 to either score or for the ball to go out of bounds. Instead he slowed done and steadied with a chipping motion bc it wasn’t necessary to kick through the ball. Holding onto the ball too long meant his target, Harry was in a worse position against more defenders by the second.

Glad you used the word ‘mistake’’ because that’s the point of this discussion: a mistake with less than 2 minutes left on the clock whilst we were in front. Very different scenario to other mistakes after that by Weitering and Acres.

The point is have the players been drilled in the art of killing time or winning a game with 2 minutes left on the clock?

I’m happy with the result. I’m not hanging LOB but I’m not going to sit here and read that LOB made the right choice and Harry’s slip was just as damning. No way. What have the players learned over the preseason is what we all ask. Now we are finding out. It’s for real every week from now on and we need to improve on last year.

I see your point.
The Acres drop mark was inexcusable for me also, very ordinary effort from a supposedly "ready to go" mature player at his 3rd club.
But I think Weiters had it tough all day, just another mistake at the wrong time of the game.

As for LOB, I agree he probably should've kept running and had a shot himself, but if McKay was still on his feet when he decided to kick the ball, nothing could've been done to avoid what eventuated, LOB still hit the target lace out, slip or no slip.
Killing time for the last 2min of a game is what we did last year and we lost nearly every game because of that, I hope we have changed that this season.
I am happy Motlop didn't do that when he took the mark from McGlovin and he decided to feed it to LOB on the run, attack at all costs and try and put these close games away.
Plus the moment that hand ball was given there were only 2 options, run hard or get tackled by a tired but still incredibly fast Rioli. The 'excess' bouncing was the mistake in that play, as per Agro Jnr post.
Collingwood showed us how to win these games last season and they went alright, unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:48 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Mickstar wrote:
Fenwick Snap wrote:
So it's settled.

If the TV rights can be sold to an outfit that knows how to show the actual game properly, we could all agree who's at fault and get on with our lives.

Channel 7 is the reason we lost.


Nah , Joe the cameraman .

Ohhhh.....that guy, I know him well, a real dud, right up there with Nathan.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:53 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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aboynamedsue wrote:
Not everything that fails to come off is a stuff up. I think LOB did what he was brought on the ground to do - gain territory and break through a line with fresh legs. He didn’t have half an hour to make a decision. It didn’t work out, but I don’t have a problem with what he did. And Voss didn’t seem unhappy with him at all when it was mentioned in the presser.

As a said earlier, if we are going to obsess over mistakes in the last minute - look no further than Weitering (who I love) and Acres. I’m sure they would like to have their time again.


Without any stats to back me up but I think that we are the worst last minute team ever no matter which quarter or which coach. Possibly not including the great teams of the 80's and 90's.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:58 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Not everything that fails to come off is a stuff up. I think LOB did what he was brought on the ground to do - gain territory and break through a line with fresh legs. He didn’t have half an hour to make a decision. It didn’t work out, but I don’t have a problem with what he did. And Voss didn’t seem unhappy with him at all when it was mentioned in the presser.

“As a said earlier, if we are going to obsess over mistakes in the last minute - look no further than Weitering (who I love) and Acres. I’m sure they would like to have their time again.


For those watching at home….

Carlton’s substitute Lochie O’Brien had the ball in his hands in space going forward, with behind the ground vision showing key forward Harry McKay in acres of space inside 50.

However, O’Brien bounced the footy, with the ball not quite coming back to him, delaying his kick inside 50 and allowing three Richmond defenders to get to McKay, who then slipped over himself.

“He was about 80m clear, Harry,” King told SEN Breakfast.

“There are three security guards on the fence. They were his closest combatants.

“It’s one thing to teach, it’s another thing to learn. Lochie O’Brien had no idea what he was doing late in the game. No idea. ‘Dumb players get you sacked’ is a Robert Walls-ism. He would’ve been furious this morning.”

If O’Brien had kicked the footy when he should have instead of holding onto it (which was obvious to everyone at the ground and on the ground except O’Brien!!!), Harry would have had enough time to fall over 3 times and still get the footy to ice the game!!!



It was quite funny discussing this with all my Carlton friends/colleagues etc, all those watching at home said it was a great pass and McKay shouldn’t have slipped over and those at the game said Obrien had no awareness and should have kicked it much earlier.

I’m buying the opinion of those who were at the game.



:lol:


I was at the game and it would have been a miracle kick to get it to McKay the first time. The kick he did do was perfect but McKay slipped over. If he hadn't we probably would have one



I’ve been hearing and reading for years LOB is an elite kick.

Miraculous kick? LOB could have kicked it to Harry if this and if that…..

Is he an elite kick or not? Is he a smart enough footballer to work it out?

Look it doesn’t really matter. We all have our own take on it. What really irks me is regardless of what LOB did is why was a 200cm KPF, albeit quick n mobile, without a wingman. You know a small running hard to give Harry ground support.

Harry was 3 on 1. Story of 2022 and story of the night. At least one should be at the feet of Harry and Charlie. They will not mark half of their attempts. Team defence sucked the smalls into the backline.

Hopefully we tweak things a bit to ensure there’s at least one small. I love the pace of Durdin and Motley. We have the personnel to fix things. We just need to tweak the method and structure.

I love a lot of what I saw. We will play Finals if we can defend like that when we have to. It’s the last minutes when in front we still haven’t got right. Get the two things right and away we go with the close games.

We should only play fit players in this energy sapping game style.

Martin must be dropped.
Fisher is too light on and doesn’t know how to impose himself physically.
Owies is tough but limited.
Blake was fantastic in his Final game last year in the Finals and last 2 praccy games. He will improve

Hard to disagree with this part, 2022 all over again.
We needed to fix this at the draft table with a quick inside mid, but we didn't and so we have what we have.
Maybe the solution is keeping Motlop and Owies next to either Charlie or Harry all game.
Then put LOB, Acres, Hollands and Cottrell when he comes back rotating between the wing and half forward providing that defensive run instead.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:16 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Blue4ever wrote:
We desperately need a mid/small forward that can kick multiple goals, Martin, SOS, Owies, Fisher etc just don't kick enough goals. We cant rely on Charlie and Harry to always kick a winning score. We need another forward able to kick 30+ goals a year.


Agree

Can't understand the coach's love for Owies. If Durdin or Honey are fit I would dump Owies for either of them, particularly Durdin. I thought that Motlop played well but not as far forward as I would have liked.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:28 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Just watching the replay.

Damn I miss Laim Jones. He would have smashed so many of those high balls that were marked by the Richmond big men. He is a huge loss for support as Weitering. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:46 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Hard to win when you have to carry 4 passengers (our small forwards) for the whole game

Hard to win when we have an imbecile as our kick out and D50 transition strategy coach

Hard to win when the aforementioned small fwds (a) are not at the feet of the talls or (b) not trying to spread the defence to mnimise the double and triple tagging of H and an Charlie and therefore povide another option

Hard to win when our footskills look shite compared to most games I've watched this weekend

Hard to win when most of our tackles are around the biceps, leaving the forearms free to dispose of the ball

PS. I don't care what others think about Dow. His treatment compared with Fisher's annoys the f#$% out of me. Fisher has done close to SFA in his 90 odd games for Carlton. Dow is rarely given more than a 2 game block

PPS. LOB showed that he actually is an elite kick. That pass to Harry was perfectly weighted.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Cazzesman wrote:
Just watching the replay.

Damn I miss Laim Jones. He would have smashed so many of those high balls that were marked by the Richmond big men. He is a huge loss for support as Weitering. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Regards Cazzesman


Agree!!

What did you think of Young’s effort with the last second Lynch mark?

I had a close look at the replay, and I could be wrong, however it appeared that Young was in a decent position to create a contest, and then he just simply got out of Lynch’s way!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:48 am 
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Laurie Kerr

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bondiblue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
https://www.afl.com.au/video/883281/full-post-match-r1-blues?videoId=883281&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1678970111001&references=AFL_MATCH:4787

Well worth a look. It all makes perfect sense when he says it :grin:

Regards Cazzesman



Did you watch the reserves at Punt rd prior to the main game?

If you did, based on that output, would you have selected Sam Durdin over Young?

Couldn’t help thinking of you Cazz in both games. Durdin did a couple good things with his handball, nothing special, but helped, but he was beaten by both talls in the reserves, and I was so glad he wasn’t selected in the seniors, and I like him.

Young on the other hand was our best defender. No wat Durdin would have taken all thos marks Young did on the last line.

Mistakes were made by just about every player on the ground last night, such was the pressure of a finals like game and atmosphere, but Anyone who wants to criticise Young’s game to prove a point is not watching with open eyes.

Blue tears posted that Young missed his targets. Really? If anything he held the ball a bit longer than others would to be sure ball went to a team mate.

Young is a keeper for now.


I probably didn't mean to pay out on youngs game so much in general. I definitely saw his work improve over the course of the game, and when he plays like that, it is definitely good enough. My pet hate is professional players doing under 10s stuff like the pick up and no look bomb because of lack of awareness and panic. I'm hoping that will come lsooner rather than later and will not hurt his game.. im not sure wether its his game or, whats happening, but he seems to be seperated from his forward opponent quite a bit..I think he is a keeper also and should be given time.. that's just two of the things that frustrates me personally to the point of posting, if it was any backline player. Giving away goals when we had possession gets to me worse than not scoring when we have possession. Anyway, I'm interested to see what this week brings against Geelong. That will be a great year with them coming off a loss


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:32 am 
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Harry Vallence

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ColourMan wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Just watching the replay.

Damn I miss Laim Jones. He would have smashed so many of those high balls that were marked by the Richmond big men. He is a huge loss for support as Weitering. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Regards Cazzesman


Agree!!

What did you think of Young’s effort with the last second Lynch mark?

I had a close look at the replay, and I could be wrong, however it appeared that Young was in a decent position to create a contest, and then he just simply got out of Lynch’s way!


Weitering wasn’t much better.

He disappoints me at times.

Needs to be better in clutch moments.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:35 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Oh, the other thing that really cost us in the dying minutes was a succession of limp-wrist handballs that fall to the feet of the recipient. There were a few of them almost like that is what they do a at training and then it cost us momentum in the game when a v tired player towards the end of the match has to stop or slow their run to bend down to gather the ball.
Sh!ts me no end!


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