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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:24 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3010
tommi wrote:
HE SAIIIIIID….!


kindest regards tommi

SHE SAiiiid too I’m sure


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
ColourMan wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.


Ok...despite the potential jobs for mates and/or nepotism regarding his hire (it's Carlton and therefore comes with the territory), it's really not that hard and it definitely isn't the most difficult part of his job. You have a set budget and you make it fit. If you have any questions, you have one of the most experienced sports CEOs in the country to call upon and a very experienced Head of Football who is also an experienced list manager. There are also numerous board members who are extremely experienced financial professionals. Who knows if legit, but I'm not overly concerned.


Unfortunately, they’re not the only areas of incompetence.

There’s little forward planning…

One of the reasons last season was derailed because of the lack of viable ruckman (after Pittonet’s injury) on the list; HOK who isn’t anywhere near ready if required as he’s a youngster, was only added after the LTI to Philp. And the volleyballer may never be ready…

We had a crack at Grundy at the death, it would have required major gymnastics with the list/salary cap to make it happen….

After drafting Hollands & Cowan (who both look very good), we drafted Binns, a runner who is a very average user of the ball, yet we have the Campo’s twins available next year.

We’ve had no viable backup for our tall forwards either…

Handing out excessive contracts (payment/length wise) doesn’t help either…


The key word being "viable" colourman. I agree.

Would love to have had something sneaky happening in the background to get Darcy from Freo, given we didn't try to lure Meek, and the other was Marshall from the Saints. That would enable us to play TDK as the 2nd tall if our KPF's were injured and SOS as the 3rd tall.

Grundy was always going to be too expensive, or cost us TDK. Need bonafide back up in the ruck to step in if needed (Mirkov, Lemmey O'Keefe are nowhere near ready) .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:00 am 
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Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1385
ColourMan wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.


Ok...despite the potential jobs for mates and/or nepotism regarding his hire (it's Carlton and therefore comes with the territory), it's really not that hard and it definitely isn't the most difficult part of his job. You have a set budget and you make it fit. If you have any questions, you have one of the most experienced sports CEOs in the country to call upon and a very experienced Head of Football who is also an experienced list manager. There are also numerous board members who are extremely experienced financial professionals. Who knows if legit, but I'm not overly concerned.


Unfortunately, they’re not the only areas of incompetence.

There’s little forward planning…

One of the reasons last season was derailed because of the lack of viable ruckman (after Pittonet’s injury) on the list; HOK who isn’t anywhere near ready if required as he’s a youngster, was only added after the LTI to Philp. And the volleyballer may never be ready…

We had a crack at Grundy at the death, it would have required major gymnastics with the list/salary cap to make it happen….

After drafting Hollands & Cowan (who both look very good), we drafted Binns, a runner who is a very average user of the ball, yet we have the Campo’s twins available next year.

We’ve had no viable backup for our tall forwards either…

Handing out excessive contracts (payment/length wise) doesn’t help either…


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:43 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:40 am
Posts: 201
Location: Carlton
ColourMan wrote:
kezza wrote:
Not sure how reliable this poster is but this is from BF.
A staff member from an accounting firm moved to Carlton to help Austin out with player contracts.
Says everything was a complete mess payment wise with no structure for future planning put in place.
New TDK deal is being delayed while they work out what to do next with Martin/McGovern contracts.
Club wants TDK to stay and he wants to stay.

Not sure what to make of this and I certainly hope Austin has not made a mess of things.


That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.



Lol so our President who was the CEO of PWC (you know that tiny accounting firm) and Cook who is probably the best CEO in the comp both just oversaw long term deals to Cripps, Harry and Charlie and now they’re saying Austin needs help? Hard to believe this one


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:27 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 448
TheDenominator wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
kezza wrote:
Not sure how reliable this poster is but this is from BF.
A staff member from an accounting firm moved to Carlton to help Austin out with player contracts.
Says everything was a complete mess payment wise with no structure for future planning put in place.
New TDK deal is being delayed while they work out what to do next with Martin/McGovern contracts.
Club wants TDK to stay and he wants to stay.

Not sure what to make of this and I certainly hope Austin has not made a mess of things.


That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.



Lol so our President who was the CEO of PWC (you know that tiny accounting firm) and Cook who is probably the best CEO in the comp both just oversaw long term deals to Cripps, Harry and Charlie and now they’re saying Austin needs help? Hard to believe this one
Well... when you put it that way...

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:25 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Blue Vain wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.


Ok...despite the potential jobs for mates and/or nepotism regarding his hire (it's Carlton and therefore comes with the territory), it's really not that hard and it definitely isn't the most difficult part of his job. You have a set budget and you make it fit. If you have any questions, you have one of the most experienced sports CEOs in the country to call upon and a very experienced Head of Football who is also an experienced list manager. There are also numerous board members who are extremely experienced financial professionals. Who knows if legit, but I'm not overly concerned.


Unfortunately, they’re not the only areas of incompetence.

There’s little forward planning…

One of the reasons last season was derailed because of the lack of viable ruckman (after Pittonet’s injury) on the list; HOK who isn’t anywhere near ready if required as he’s a youngster, was only added after the LTI to Philp. And the volleyballer may never be ready…

We had a crack at Grundy at the death, it would have required major gymnastics with the list/salary cap to make it happen….

After drafting Hollands & Cowan (who both look very good), we drafted Binns, a runner who is a very average user of the ball, yet we have the Campo’s twins available next year.

We’ve had no viable backup for our tall forwards either…

Handing out excessive contracts (payment/length wise) doesn’t help either…


So Austin has had 2 National Drafts to restructure a list that had tall forward luminaries like Ben Silvagni and Finbar O'Dwyer as our back ups. We have Pittonet, TDK and 2 developing rucks. That's the perfect balance IMHO. HOK looks good and "the Volleyballer" is worth the punt.

IMO, our list is significantly better than it was when SOS was removed 2 years ago which is the measure on how Austin should judged.


In your opinion…

And, after 3 National Drafts (not 2), who are our tall/medium forward backups??

Caminiti starred in a practice match, is 6 or 7 years younger than Jack, Charlie & Harry, and ended up at the Saints and is doing very well on a minimum contract.

I guess you missed the point on how HOK arrived on the list, which is the exactly the point being made…

And you didn’t address the Binns/Campo twins question… we already have enough turnover merchants on the list

And what happens if Pittonet or TDK get hurt?

Two years for LOB, how many years for Philp (based on what exactly?) and Young?

One quality tall defender, what happens if Weiters goes down?

Paying overs for players trade wise, massive contracts handed out, some poor trades… other clubs have found it a pleasurable experience trading with us :grin: which isn’t really a good thing

Agree the list is in better shape than when SOS left, and to an extent, some gaps have been addressed.

And we should be doing better on field than what we are, which is a coaching issue.

However after 3 National drafts/trade periods, the list still has gaps, and the salary cap is a mess. And that’s Austin’s responsibility. Unfortunately he’s learning on the job


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:37 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Need some real changes at years end to improve our depth

We need some more run through the middle, another small X factor forward and a KPD. Importantly we need some run and players who use the ball well

IMO names like Philp Fogarty Honey Cuningham Dow Marchbank Fisher O’Brien need to go as they aren’t taking us any further

Ed will probably retire and there must be question marks over Mirkov Kemp Carroll & Martin


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:47 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17569
ColourMan wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
That’s no secret, that the salary cap is a mess. Austin had no experience with payments previously, and only a relatively short amount of time in recruitment before being handed the role of Head of List Management by Liddle because of their pre-existing relationship at Richmond.


Ok...despite the potential jobs for mates and/or nepotism regarding his hire (it's Carlton and therefore comes with the territory), it's really not that hard and it definitely isn't the most difficult part of his job. You have a set budget and you make it fit. If you have any questions, you have one of the most experienced sports CEOs in the country to call upon and a very experienced Head of Football who is also an experienced list manager. There are also numerous board members who are extremely experienced financial professionals. Who knows if legit, but I'm not overly concerned.


Unfortunately, they’re not the only areas of incompetence.

There’s little forward planning…

One of the reasons last season was derailed because of the lack of viable ruckman (after Pittonet’s injury) on the list; HOK who isn’t anywhere near ready if required as he’s a youngster, was only added after the LTI to Philp. And the volleyballer may never be ready…

We had a crack at Grundy at the death, it would have required major gymnastics with the list/salary cap to make it happen….

After drafting Hollands & Cowan (who both look very good), we drafted Binns, a runner who is a very average user of the ball, yet we have the Campo’s twins available next year.

We’ve had no viable backup for our tall forwards either…

Handing out excessive contracts (payment/length wise) doesn’t help either…


So Austin has had 2 National Drafts to restructure a list that had tall forward luminaries like Ben Silvagni and Finbar O'Dwyer as our back ups. We have Pittonet, TDK and 2 developing rucks. That's the perfect balance IMHO. HOK looks good and "the Volleyballer" is worth the punt.

IMO, our list is significantly better than it was when SOS was removed 2 years ago which is the measure on how Austin should judged.


In your opinion…

And, after 3 National Drafts (not 2), who are our tall/medium forward backups??

Caminiti starred in a practice match, is 6 or 7 years younger than Jack, Charlie & Harry, and ended up at the Saints and is doing very well on a minimum contract.

I guess you missed the point on how HOK arrived on the list, which is the exactly the point being made…

And you didn’t address the Binns/Campo twins question… we already have enough turnover merchants on the list

And what happens if Pittonet or TDK get hurt?

Two years for LOB, how many years for Philp (based on what exactly?) and Young?

One quality tall defender, what happens if Weiters goes down?

Paying overs for players trade wise, massive contracts handed out, some poor trades… other clubs have found it a pleasurable experience trading with us :grin: which isn’t really a good thing

Agree the list is in better shape than when SOS left, and to an extent, some gaps have been addressed.

And we should be doing better on field than what we are, which is a coaching issue.

However after 3 National drafts/trade periods, the list still has gaps, and the salary cap is a mess. And that’s Austin’s responsibility. Unfortunately he’s learning on the job


Yep. That's what I said. :thumbsup:

Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 39149
Location: seaside
Hey….

remember when we recruited Alex Fasolo…?


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:04 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 33940
Location: Half back flank
You've gotta work it hard, to be Fasolo man...!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:53 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6418
Location: Bendigo
FarmerBlue wrote:
Need some real changes at years end to improve our depth

We need some more run through the middle, another small X factor forward and a KPD. Importantly we need some run and players who use the ball well

IMO names like Philp Fogarty Honey Cuningham Dow Marchbank Fisher O’Brien need to go as they aren’t taking us any further

Ed will probably retire and there must be question marks over Mirkov Kemp Carroll & Martin

Agree with most, if not all, of these. I’ve got as many as nine changes on the cards.

Fisher & O’Brien will survive because they’re contracted.

The trouble we’ve got is that there’s not a lot of cash to splash around. So it becomes a question of whether you could replace the player’s output for a comparable price. The price for most of these guys is the entry level.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1271
Just look at Collingwood - Players like Noble, McReary, Johnson, Murphy etc. don't cost much but add great depth.

It all comes down to recruiting. No pressure Austin.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:45 pm 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4438
Traveller86 wrote:
Just look at Collingwood - Players like Noble, McReary, Johnson, Murphy etc. don't cost much but add great depth.

It all comes down to recruiting. No pressure Austin.



Traveller not only the recruiting but the system they develop under too. And the character of the player. Do they roll their hands up and want to win at all cost, or just plod along and dont really have the professionalism required of a winner.

Something we have been lacking. But we have it right with our recent recruitement. Hollands and Cowan will keep on going even if they are tired. I think Cowan looks a bit tired but really cracked in, in the second half. That is what we want.

Dow, Plowman, Cunningham, Martin, O'Brien to name a few are too timid, and dont have mongrel.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
I've said before that I believe we lack real depth on our list. Our top end is very good but we fall away after that. At the end of the year we need to make some changes.

Watching games at the weekend I saw many players who's careers have turned around by being tried in different roles. I would hope Voss and Co do similar with a number of players we have on our list that are struggling to be regualr players

Names like Rioli McPherson Wood have been real success stories by chnaging roles


Could Josh Honey be a running defender? Has the attributes
Plowman as a wing ala Acres. Has the size and fitness and played there as a junior
O'Brien off HB so he can run straight and use his kicking
Kemp as a mid. That what he was recruited as
Cottrell as a defensive HF

Like we did with Jones and have a bit with McGovern turing an average player into a vital best 22 from players already on your list can be gold.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:53 pm 
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Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5530
FarmerBlue wrote:
I've said before that I believe we lack real depth on our list. Our top end is very good but we fall away after that. At the end of the year we need to make some changes.

Watching games at the weekend I saw many players who's careers have turned around by being tried in different roles. I would hope Voss and Co do similar with a number of players we have on our list that are struggling to be regualr players

Names like Rioli McPherson Wood have been real success stories by chnaging roles


Could Josh Honey be a running defender? Has the attributes
Plowman as a wing ala Acres. Has the size and fitness and played there as a junior
O'Brien off HB so he can run straight and use his kicking
Kemp as a mid. That what he was recruited as
Cottrell as a defensive HF

Like we did with Jones and have a bit with McGovern turing an average player into a vital best 22 from players already on your list can be gold.

x 2 :clap:
What have we got to lose by trying to move some pieces to create some more depth.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1385
Concerning signs to some extent so far.

Dow, Fogarty, Plowman, Akuei all look gone at the end of the year.
Marchbank, Philp and Cuningham yet to fire a shot and out of contract too.
Ed out of contract, still playing very good footy. Durdin only kept out of the side due to Weitering/Young playing great footy.
Honey and Kemp haven't shown anything to justify another year.

McGovern and TDK are both decisions largely out of our hands also.

How do you keep the list in contention with the TPP situation already a bit precarious? The only one who's shown anything to justify the *relevant* extension is Curnow.

I'd be pretty disappointed if we re-signed all bar the top 4 listed at this point, but it appears likely.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:58 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Article by Jake Niall nailed it in my opinion

We lack run, leg speed and depth. I would add skill/smart footballer to that list

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blu ... 5d0ln.html


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:47 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 241
leg speed and run ,i am a just normal worker and i have been saying this for years ,yet sos recruits are all slow. need speed in defence priority saad and ???????


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
jpulice1969 wrote:
leg speed and run ,i am a just normal worker and i have been saying this for years ,yet sos recruits are all slow. need speed in defence priority saad and ???????


Williams (injured)

after him, Boyd (injured)

after him, Cottrell (injured)

after him Cincotta, or that's what I would have thought.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
jpulice1969 wrote:
leg speed and run ,i am a just normal worker and i have been saying this for years ,yet sos recruits are all slow. need speed in defence priority saad and ???????


Williams (injured)

after him, Boyd (injured)

after him, Cottrell (injured)

after him Cincotta, or that's what I would have thought.


With a fit list our defence is fantastic and has run. I was excited in the pre season watching Doc, Williams, Saad, McGovern all fit and running out of defence. It looked awesome. Boyd makes it better as well

It's the midfield that's the real issue. With Kennedy Hewett Walsh injured early we then play Ed Curnow? Been a good player but slow as a wet week and can't kick over a jam tin. We added Acres, who is a good addition but he isn't quick either. Why isn't Carroll playing? With a fit list Docherty & Williams could easily play time on ball. That helps

Cottrell Cuningham Philp Martin are the types we need but none are best 22 yet and can't get on the partk

You can see why we are playing Cowan & Hollnds from Day one. They are the future and their type is needed. Binns will play soon

At years end we need to address run through the middle and X factor up forward. IMO our best 22 is good enough but we fall away badly after that and injuries are killing us

This side isn't slow at all

B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Owies McKay Durdin
F: Motlop Curnow Martin
Foll: Pittonet Walsh Docherty
Int: TDK Cerra Kennedy Cuningham Fisher
Em: Philp Cottrell Binns Cowan


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