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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:50 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Quote:
McKay’s front-ended deal will allow the Bombers to be active in the free agency market going forward.

According to afl.com.au, the key defender will earn between $1.4 and $1.5 million in 2024.

Lance Franklin was paid around $1.5 million in the eighth year of his monster contract with the Sydney Swans, while 12 players were paid a salary of $1 million or more in 2022.

Geelong’s Jeremy Cameron, Western Bulldogs captain Marcus Bontempelli and Melbourne pair Clayton Oliver and Christian Petracca were in that range as well, along with GWS trio Toby Greene, Stephen Coniglio and Josh Kelly.

McKay’s six-year deal runs through to the end of 2029, with a trigger for a seventh season.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afls-highest-paid-player-unwittingly-clips-former-club/news-story/9d6849a472a2bba2d5aa8b94a592ba0f

No Carlton players named in the million dollar salary list.

Despite having a tight salary cap, we have been reprieved of the burden recently with the completion of McGoverns lucrative 5 year deal, the end of the back ended Plowman contract, Fisher's half million dollar contract as well as Dows and Ed's contract too, whilst committing all our big guns to long term deals, all $900K and under. Cripps has a Marketing component to his. Next year Martin's lucrative contract ends too, and Salary and Soft Caps increase.

The list has a Geelong feel about it imo with the band making sacrifices and sticking together for ultimate success.

Go Blues

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Last edited by bondiblue on Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:54 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We probably use our f1 (2024 R1) to secure an out of contract or "pre-agent" because we have some salary room and also to clear that pick away from f/s bidding.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:06 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Personally, I would have gone after Riley Bonner instead of Fantasia. I think Bonner’s outside game is what we need.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
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Agree Surrey. I like Bonner too.

But it's clear they are looking at guys who can play forward (Fantasia) or mid-forward (Hollands) as our most pressing need. And I kind of agree with that. We have plenty of wingers and HBFs.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jezzarules wrote:
We probably use our f1 (2024 R1) to secure an out of contract or "pre-agent" because we have some salary room and also to clear that pick away from f/s bidding.


We all know Austin can still trade the F1 pick on draft night, but if he doesn't, I think there could be something like that brewing given we have gone to draft for 2 consecutive years when our window opened.

What we have to be mindful of with all the cap savings this year and next, Harry's new $850K contract starts in 2024, and some of this year's cap "savings" will be sucked up by his contract.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:11 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Agree Surrey. I like Bonner too.

But it's clear they are looking at guys who can play forward (Fantasia) or mid-forward (Hollands) as our most pressing need. And I kind of agree with that. We have plenty of wingers and HBFs.


Bonner's good, but I agree we have plenty of running defenders and wings.

We can say we have plenty of small forwards, but they are either young, inexperienced or lacking in some other areas (kicking, speed, tackling) ie I'm not sold on any of them, yet. Little Durdin (speed and tackling) is my favourite small ahead of Motlop (good kick) and Owies (good tackler)

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:13 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We're kind of in a bind selection-wise insofar as our current two picks really need to be used on current year draftees and then we'll be upgrading one rookie to be kosher with the rules.

To be considering recycled / mature age players (IE known ready to go abilities but also known limitations) and not be massively "reaching", we'd need to trade down in some way. There are options but it's a complication.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:11 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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I would have taken Toby McLean as a backup midfielder instead of Fantasia.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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BigBlueWave wrote:
I would have taken Toby McLean as a backup midfielder instead of Fantasia.

We've clearly focused on goal kicking potential

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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BigBlueWave wrote:
I would have taken Toby McLean as a backup midfielder instead of Fantasia.


What does a backup midfielder have to do with Fantasia?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:07 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3008
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
He's an opportunist small fwd more than a defensive one

We need exactly that; somebody with the hyena mindset, always ready to feast on crumbs and kick a goal

He's got more upside than LOB and Honey combined

Probably costing us about 500k over 2 seasons

I'm confident that Russell, Voss and Austin discussed his injuries and feel they can get him right

Effectively costs us nothing


I don't knoiw if he has more upside being 28yo and perennially injured, but I trust Russell has had a good look and Ozario will be great for us for at least a year, if not two.

I like the message the acquisition sends to the current group of small forwards, and to the spectators who don't like our small forwards criticised, despuite their obvious shortfalls.

I was critical of Fisher during the year before he was dropped, and some of his fans refused to see his weaknesses, in particular strength.

I still have a problem with speed (or lack of) necessary for a small forward to have to get out of situations and apply their x factor.

of the 3 small forwards left following the trade of Fisher, I think Durdin is the quickest and speed is still an issue for Motlop and Owies. I know the strengths they bring to the table, namely tackling, and a goal here and there, but when they try and take on the tackler, they don't have the wheels to speed away (but they think they have).

Bryce Gibbs said today on SEN

Quote:
“It's probably their small forwards that I'm a little bit worried about.

“Owies, Durdin, Motlop, those sort of three. Who out of those three can stand up and become an All-Australian type small forward? A Charlie Cameron type in that forward line?

“I'm just a bit worried about his pace, to be honest, Motlop’s pace.

“All three of those guys have had opportunities over the last 12, 18 months and not really one of them have grabbed it by the scruff of the neck and said, ‘I'm the premier small forward in this forward line’.

“I think those three need to have a big pre-season and one of them needs to really step up.”


I agree with Bryce but can't see where the pace will come with Motlop and Owies if they are to be elusive and dangerous small forwards in Finals.

All of that!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
In the Age today there's mention that Matty Cottrell will be upgraded to the main list, leaving a rookie or SSP selection after the 2 draft picks. Interesting.

Quote:
Carlton​

Arrivals: Orazio Fantasia (delisted free agency – Port Adelaide), Elijah Hollands (traded – Gold Coast)
Departures: Ed Curnow (retired), Paddy Dow (traded – St Kilda), Zac Fisher (traded – North Melbourne), Josh Honey (delisted), Lochie O’Brien (delisted), Sam Philp (delisted), Lachie Plowman (retired)
Contracted: 40 (including one category B rookie)
Draft picks: 22, 28, 70, 78, 96
The Blues will place ex-Power and Bombers recruit Fantasia on their main list, as well as promoting Matt Cottrell from the rookie list. They will use only their first two picks at the national draft, which will take them to the minimum of 36 players on the primary list.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:27 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bondiblue wrote:
In the Age today there's mention that Matty Cottrell will be upgraded to the main list, leaving a rookie or SSP selection after the 2 draft picks. Interesting.

Quote:
Carlton​

Arrivals: Orazio Fantasia (delisted free agency – Port Adelaide), Elijah Hollands (traded – Gold Coast)
Departures: Ed Curnow (retired), Paddy Dow (traded – St Kilda), Zac Fisher (traded – North Melbourne), Josh Honey (delisted), Lochie O’Brien (delisted), Sam Philp (delisted), Lachie Plowman (retired)
Contracted: 40 (including one category B rookie)
Draft picks: 22, 28, 70, 78, 96
The Blues will place ex-Power and Bombers recruit Fantasia on their main list, as well as promoting Matt Cottrell from the rookie list. They will use only their first two picks at the national draft, which will take them to the minimum of 36 players on the primary list.

Is Cottrell in addition to Cincotta or did they possibly say Cottrell in error?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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Location: Bendigo
Hopefully we can move those two 4th round picks into next year once the bids start flying.

Maybe we’ll be the ones to bid on Will Graham to force the issue with GC?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:52 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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jezzarules wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
In the Age today there's mention that Matty Cottrell will be upgraded to the main list, leaving a rookie or SSP selection after the 2 draft picks. Interesting.

Quote:
Carlton​

Arrivals: Orazio Fantasia (delisted free agency – Port Adelaide), Elijah Hollands (traded – Gold Coast)
Departures: Ed Curnow (retired), Paddy Dow (traded – St Kilda), Zac Fisher (traded – North Melbourne), Josh Honey (delisted), Lochie O’Brien (delisted), Sam Philp (delisted), Lachie Plowman (retired)
Contracted: 40 (including one category B rookie)
Draft picks: 22, 28, 70, 78, 96
The Blues will place ex-Power and Bombers recruit Fantasia on their main list, as well as promoting Matt Cottrell from the rookie list. They will use only their first two picks at the national draft, which will take them to the minimum of 36 players on the primary list.

Is Cottrell in addition to Cincotta or did they possibly say Cottrell in error?

Unless the Irish boys have had a change of heart, we’ve got 42 on the list as it stands.

Cottrell, Cincotta, Boyd, Sam Durdin, Mirkov, O’Keeffe & Akuei (Cat B) finished the year on the rookie list.

Duffy & Monahan would make it 3x Cat B & 6x Cat A… one too many.

So, yeah… either he meant to write Cincotta, or we’re going with 37 on the main list.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:14 am 
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Geoff Southby
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The biggest concern with our list is we are now ranked #6 for age of list yet we are ranked #13 for experience (7 spots - differential, next club is Tigers 3 spots).
Western Bulldogs are ranked #6th in experience at 86.2 games and we are 71.8 games (appx 15 games per player).
Basically this says we have too many injury prone players on the list.
While I like the idea of Hollands and Fantasia on our list, it also comes with risk and expectation that the other injury prone players can be bandaged together enough for finals again.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:48 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Location: Bendigo
Sidefx wrote:
The biggest concern with our list is we are now ranked #6 for age of list yet we are ranked #13 for experience (7 spots - differential, next club is Tigers 3 spots).
Western Bulldogs are ranked #6th in experience at 86.2 games and we are 71.8 games (appx 15 games per player).
Basically this says we have too many injury prone players on the list.
While I like the idea of Hollands and Fantasia on our list, it also comes with risk and expectation that the other injury prone players can be bandaged together enough for finals again.

Granted, Fantasia’s hammy is a calculated risk, but new Hollands has played 46 games in the last two years.

Games experience isn’t a nonsense stat, but it’s certainly least relevant at this time of year with different list sizes across the board.

Week to week is where it carries weight - and, without looking, I’d think we’re up near the pointy end there. Even with outliers like Newman, Saad, Boyd, Cincotta & Owies that were in their 20s before they got a game.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Looks like we’ll have an SSP spot open.

Poor old Duffy has done himself a mischief.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:45 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Silly Duffy

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