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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Mickstar wrote:
Jack Billings gets a mention every year . Knows where the goals are .


28 next year and injury prone. Have to be cheap but when fit can play


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Contracted till end of 2025 on about 800k a year.

At least Martin turns up against the good sides 2-3 times a year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:46 pm 
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John Nicholls
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carntheblues wrote:
Which area of the ground do we need more coverage? Are you saying we need a key back, ruckman and small forward?


That's my take on it, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
bondiblue wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
It’s not that he lost the contest, everyone loses contest, it’s that he didn’t even compete, which he does way too often.

He did the same thing against the Pies (Cameron, 3rd qtr) in round 23 last year, where he was in a perfect position to provide a contest, and at the last second pulled out…. Darcy Cameron took the uncontested mark and kicked a point.

Even though, a tall defender was an area of need for the Dogs, I think he only played 10 games in 5 years.

Hopefully, these brain fades cease, because his intercept marking has been good.



Both instances they were Weiterings opponent. Not correct, definitely not against the Pies! Are you saying he shouldn’t be competing when the opposition player isn’t his direct opponent? Really? Even if he is best placed to do so? What about Team Defence? Maybe the synergy isnt quite there yet. We dont really know what they were thinking.

I think his intercept marking has been more than good, he has been outstanding.

No one knows what was going on at the Dogs. Beveridge had the tall players for the backline but chose a smaller quicker backline to suit their game plan? Not correct again, they ended up preferring Schache as a backup defender Who knows? 20-21yo Yound wasnt the only tall to be on the outer, and at 20-21yo, he's only developing his game, and maybe he wasnt ready.

He's the same person at Carlton, but a better footballer. That to me, if I'm correct, he is developing and there's plenty of upside.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:50 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
ColourMan wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
It’s not that he lost the contest, everyone loses contest, it’s that he didn’t even compete, which he does way too often.

He did the same thing against the Pies (Cameron, 3rd qtr) in round 23 last year, where he was in a perfect position to provide a contest, and at the last second pulled out…. Darcy Cameron took the uncontested mark and kicked a point.

Even though, a tall defender was an area of need for the Dogs, I think he only played 10 games in 5 years.

Hopefully, these brain fades cease, because his intercept marking has been good.



Both instances they were Weiterings opponent. Not correct, definitely not against the Pies! Are you saying he shouldn’t be competing when the opposition player isn’t his direct opponent? Really? Even if he is best placed to do so? What about Team Defence? Maybe the synergy isnt quite there yet. We dont really know what they were thinking.

I think his intercept marking has been more than good, he has been outstanding.

No one knows what was going on at the Dogs. Beveridge had the tall players for the backline but chose a smaller quicker backline to suit their game plan? Not correct again, they ended up preferring Schache as a backup defender Who knows? 20-21yo Yound wasnt the only tall to be on the outer, and at 20-21yo, he's only developing his game, and maybe he wasnt ready.

He's the same person at Carlton, but a better footballer. That to me, if I'm correct, he is developing and there's plenty of upside.


My mistake, Young had Cameron for Pies and Cats, so either way I was wrong on Cameron.n :oops:

My point is that despite the defenders doing a very good job on their opponents there's still synergy to build to create a great team defence, and all KPD's have brain fades. I agree when its your turn to go, you have to go, even if its not your opponent: kill the ball!

With Young its his intensity many would like to see amped up, including me, and it may very well be a brain fade, but I was more focussed on defending Young when you threw in a sentence "Even though, a tall defender was an area of need for the Dogs, I think he only played 10 games in 5 years", which doesn't say much but alludes to plenty.

I thought that point needed discussion because he may well have been the best option for the Dogs defence for all we know, and Bevo was always questioned why he went for a short defence. Bevo response of Young was he was young and still developing, which was true, and sometimes he'd just say "match ups" as the reason for short defence. As for Schache, he's a year older but I thought he was on the outer too, for same reasons, and just checked to find he only played 2 games in 2020, 9 in 2021 and 7 in 2022. He was also traded to Melbourne end of last year.

I know you think he's a good intercept mark, but I wasnt sure if you think he's worth keeping because of the 2 brain fades.

We recruited him to keep developing in the reserves and injury forced Vossy's hand to play him. As Vossy said last week, Young's trajectory has surprised everyone so much so he can't be ignored. I think he's the best we've got on the list for the 2nd KPD, and I too hope we see less of his and other players brain fades moving forward.

Its just a discussion, I'm not right and youre not wrong. We live in hope.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:26 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5510
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Walsh/Cerra/JSOS on one HFF and Durdin/LOB/Owies on the other.
Sounds damaging.


It does. Walsh back will make such a huge difference to our side. Boyd as well

A couple of times this year Doc has gone into the middle and Cerra to HB and looked great. I like the flexibility

Our big issue I see is consistency around the smaller forwards. Walsh Cerra Durdin and possibly LOB should improve that area. Motlop should get better and better. The other is Cottrell. I thought he looked good as a HF when he played that role last year

Owies was good last week but he needs to keep his work rate up as I don't think he has the tricks

Hard to disagree with any of the above.
And if we get any more injuries, I still would like to Cotts play a tagging role like Ed and George.
I reckon it could quickly become his most damaging position, especially if he gets some time up forward kicking goals as another string in his bow.


Cottrell could play defensive HF. A lot of teams create run from defence like we do with Saad. Cottrell has shown he can shutdown, tackle but also kick goals. He is a good mark and very accurate kick. He also brings energy

100%
Between Cotts, LOB, Walsh & Cerra rotating with the current players, if we have a fit team than I guess that HF spot looks pretty full.
I guess the only thing missing with all of those players is the X factor Martin had.
And I say had because we haven't really seen it in a while with injury and poor form.

Maybe as an outhere idea, if Cerra can go back then put Saad at HF.
That could be interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:56 pm 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4435
Sam McClure, eats, dreams, talks Tom Dekoning every minute of his life. He is obsessed. And he goes on youtube talking about Carlton and claiming to follow us. I would not give that guy time of day, he is a troll........


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Walsh/Cerra/JSOS on one HFF and Durdin/LOB/Owies on the other.
Sounds damaging.


It does. Walsh back will make such a huge difference to our side. Boyd as well

A couple of times this year Doc has gone into the middle and Cerra to HB and looked great. I like the flexibility

Our big issue I see is consistency around the smaller forwards. Walsh Cerra Durdin and possibly LOB should improve that area. Motlop should get better and better. The other is Cottrell. I thought he looked good as a HF when he played that role last year

Owies was good last week but he needs to keep his work rate up as I don't think he has the tricks

Hard to disagree with any of the above.
And if we get any more injuries, I still would like to Cotts play a tagging role like Ed and George.
I reckon it could quickly become his most damaging position, especially if he gets some time up forward kicking goals as another string in his bow.


Cottrell could play defensive HF. A lot of teams create run from defence like we do with Saad. Cottrell has shown he can shutdown, tackle but also kick goals. He is a good mark and very accurate kick. He also brings energy

100%
Between Cotts, LOB, Walsh & Cerra rotating with the current players, if we have a fit team than I guess that HF spot looks pretty full.
I guess the only thing missing with all of those players is the X factor Martin had.
And I say had because we haven't really seen it in a while with injury and poor form.

Maybe as an outhere idea, if Cerra can go back then put Saad at HF.
That could be interesting.


If Cowan steps up (he will) and with Cincotta Boyd & Saad when Williams comes back maybe he could play HF? Has the skills.

If we can't work out a potent mix up forward of Charlie McKay Silvagni Martin Motlop Durdin Fisher Cottrell LOB Cuningham Owies plus rotating mids we have a serious coaching issue


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
I'm a fan of Matt Cottrell.
He started his career with a few areas needing polish, and his ability to adaptat to various roles in the 2nd half on 2022 was fantastic as were his skills. As a HF he was able to tag or provide run as a HHF.

Pity he's injured for the first half of this season, but then again Martin isnt fairing too well in that department, plus there 5 years difference in age. Cottrell has more upside imo.

Hey, I still would have Jack as my first choice HF from our list, but my patience is wearing thin.

Sure Cottrell can do the HF spot justice imo. Prefer Matt to Zac Fisher too.

Player Statistics Comparison

Matt Cottrell Name Jack Martin
Carlton Blues Team Carlton Blues

Midfield, Forward Position Forward
37 Career Games 136
Dandenong Stingrays Origin Geraldton
February 29, 2000 Date of Birth January 29, 1995
Turned 22 in 2022 Age Turned 27 in 2022
185cm Height 186cm
80kg Weight 82kg

2022 Stats for Season 2022
18 Games 12
8.8 Kicks 6.2
6.0 Handballs 3.3
14.8 Disposals 9.5
3.9 Marks 3.3
0.5 Goals 1.0
0.1 Behinds 0.9
1.8 Tackles 2.6
0 Hitouts 0
2.2 Inside 50s 1.7
0.4 Goal Assists 0.7
0.5 Frees For 0.6
0.3 Frees Against 0.7
4.7 Contested Possessions 4.5
10.2 Uncontested Possessions 5.2
11.2 Effective Disposals 6.0
75.7% Disposal Efficiency % 63.2%
1.7 Clangers 2.2
0.3 Contested Marks 0.8
0.4 Marks Inside 50 1.0
0.6 Clearances 0.2
0.9 Rebound 50s 0.2
0.7 One Percenters 0.7
0.3 Bounces 0
78.7 Time On Ground % 63.5
0.2 Centre Clearances 0
0.4 Stoppage Clearances 0.2
3.9 Score Involvements 4.3
235.7 Metres Gained 161.2
2.3 Turnovers 1.9
2.7 Intercepts 0.8
0.4 Tackles Inside 50 1.3
60.2 AFL Fantasy Score 51.0
61.0 Supercoach Score 54.0

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:

If Cowan steps up (he will) and with Cincotta Boyd & Saad when Williams comes back maybe he could play HF? Has the skills.

If we can't work out a potent mix up forward of Charlie McKay Silvagni Martin Motlop Durdin Fisher Cottrell LOB Cuningham Owies plus rotating mids we have a serious coaching issue


Interesting POV re Cowan. He's a good mark too. Nice long kick...good one Farmer

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
Drewgirl wrote:
And he goes on youtube talking about Carlton and claiming to follow us.



He does follow us. Blue through & through

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6404
Location: Bendigo
CK95 wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
And he goes on youtube talking about Carlton and claiming to follow us.



He does follow us. Blue through & through

- Complains about anything & everything
- Delusions of Tom

Yep. He’s probably a mod here.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:56 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6404
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
I'm a fan of Matt Cottrell.
He started his career with a few areas needing polish, and his ability to adaptat to various roles in the 2nd half on 2022 was fantastic as were his skills. As a HF he was able to tag or provide run as a HHF.

Pity he's injured for the first half of this season, but then again Martin isnt fairing too well in that department, plus there 5 years difference in age. Cottrell has more upside imo.

The thing about Cottrell is, he was in the side for most of last season, chasing the ball back & forth as it was kicked over his head.

Too close to be an outlet option off half back, too far away to put pressure on the opposition rebound.

I’d like to think he’s getting better at finding the ground ball. He’s certainly gotten bigger for the contested ball.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:38 pm 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4435
CK95 wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
And he goes on youtube talking about Carlton and claiming to follow us.



He does follow us. Blue through & through



Yep he claims to support us, but bags us everychance he gets. Is that someone that loves a club? Cmon name another media person who bags the club they love. They are so biased it’s not funny.

Sam on the other hand was on PommyInOz youtube channel after we won last week pretending to love the club.

What a load of crap. He is been banging on about Dekoning going every chance he gets. And when was the last time he said anything positive about us?

Not the actions of a true Carlton supporter.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:38 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5510
FarmerBlue wrote:

If Cowan steps up (he will) and with Cincotta Boyd & Saad when Williams comes back maybe he could play HF? Has the skills.

If we can't work out a potent mix up forward of Charlie McKay Silvagni Martin Motlop Durdin Fisher Cottrell LOB Cuningham Owies plus rotating mids we have a serious coaching issue

100%


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 33903
Location: Half back flank
Drewgirl wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
And he goes on youtube talking about Carlton and claiming to follow us.



He does follow us. Blue through & through



Yep he claims to support us, but bags us everychance he gets. Is that someone that loves a club? Cmon name another media person who bags the club they love. They are so biased it’s not funny.

Sam on the other hand was on PommyInOz youtube channel after we won last week pretending to love the club.

What a load of crap. He is been banging on about Dekoning going every chance he gets. And when was the last time he said anything positive about us?

Not the actions of a true Carlton supporter.
Let's hope as the season unfolds he has less & less to whinge about :)

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:07 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14295
Not sure how reliable this poster is but this is from BF.
A staff member from an accounting firm moved to Carlton to help Austin out with player contracts.
Says everything was a complete mess payment wise with no structure for future planning put in place.
New TDK deal is being delayed while they work out what to do next with Martin/McGovern contracts.
Club wants TDK to stay and he wants to stay.

Not sure what to make of this and I certainly hope Austin has not made a mess of things.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:23 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
kezza wrote:
Not sure how reliable this poster is but this is from BF.
A staff member from an accounting firm moved to Carlton to help Austin out with player contracts.
Says everything was a complete mess payment wise with no structure for future planning put in place.
New TDK deal is being delayed while they work out what to do next with Martin/McGovern contracts.
Club wants TDK to stay and he wants to stay.

Not sure what to make of this and I certainly hope Austin has not made a mess of things.


That's why we pay accounting firms the big bucks: to put things in place and in the right.

They're working on it is better than not.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Kaloyasena
Maybe we should go back to the “Post-It-Note” system of administering contracts.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:58 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6404
Location: Bendigo
kezza wrote:
Not sure how reliable this poster is but this is from BF.
A staff member from an accounting firm moved to Carlton to help Austin out with player contracts.
Says everything was a complete mess payment wise with no structure for future planning put in place.
New TDK deal is being delayed while they work out what to do next with Martin/McGovern contracts.
Club wants TDK to stay and he wants to stay.

Not sure what to make of this and I certainly hope Austin has not made a mess of things.

I’d be amazed if there was space in the footy budget for forensic accountants.

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