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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:16 pm
Posts: 2777
Location: addis ababa, Ethiopia
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:46 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


I'm with you FB.

Born 23rd November 2003.
He played as an 18yo ... and stood up.
Can't compare him with 24yo Fisher ... but I have no doubt 18yo Motlop is miles ahead of 18yo Fisher etc etc

Every player Arnhem Blues mentions is competing for a spot in the forward line...JSOS is not competing as a small, and fear JSOS may not be best 23 if TDK builds more strength this preseason. He has upside, as does Motlop who just turned 19 a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not convinced Owies, Durdin and Fisher are ahead of Motlop either. I see them all as borderline best 23. Cunners and Martin will be competing for one HF spot along with Honey.

Motlop is competing for a spot against Owies and Durdin. May the best man win and help us win the flag.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17598
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


I'm with you FB.

Born 23rd November 2003.
He played as an 18yo ... and stood up.
Can't compare him with 24yo Fisher ... but I have no doubt 18yo Motlop is miles ahead of 18yo Fisher etc etc

Every player Arnhem Blues mentions is competing for a spot in the forward line...JSOS is not competing as a small, and fear JSOS may not be best 23 if TDK builds more strength this preseason. He has upside, as does Motlop who just turned 19 a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not convinced Owies, Durdin and Fisher are ahead of Motlop either. I see them all as borderline best 23. Cunners and Martin will be competing for one HF spot along with Honey.

Motlop is competing for a spot against Owies and Durdin. May the best man win and help us win the flag.


I agree he's very young and has a bright future but i also agree with most of Arnhem Blue's points. Motlop has plenty of potential but also plenty to work on.
And you can compare 18 year old Motlop with 24 year old Fisher because that is what is currently competing for spots.
At this stage, I have Fisher and Durdin well ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:16 pm
Posts: 2777
Location: addis ababa, Ethiopia
Be thrilled if I am wrong and I know he is young and will improve - just going on what I saw this year rather than potential. If he is looking good at training - that’s great!
I really rate Durdin and if Motlop is an improvement we will have an incredible forward line. Just haven’t seen it yet…


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6522
Location: Bendigo
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…

I think the fact that all of those points culminate in “he gets into dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him” is pretty much end of story.

Motlop & Durdin are the most dangerous small forwards by a country mile.

If the others can’t contest well enough to make something out of a choppy entry, or pressure the rebound to turn the ball over, then they’ll keep getting replaced until we find someone that can.

Owies gets a game because he makes the opposition work for a rebound. He shouldn’t be hard to get past if they want his spot.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:31 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 5269
Been watching some of our early wins and both Durdin and Motlop looked super dangerous. The season is a long one, I think both the kids were commendable by seasons end considering the game Vossy expects them to play eg; pressure first and goals will come. I do make note that Motlop does get in the right spots but at times he overruns the ball, I think as his body matures and as he continues to develop, his body will begin doing exactly what its told and we will see less of that. He has the talent, that I'm sure of, he just needs to put in the hard work so the rest is up to him.

I must say that Durdin played an absolute ripper against Sydney as did Kennedy - Kennedy has just blown me away and I don't think he gets enough credit.

That's the thing about the 2022 Blues and beyond - so much talent absolutely ALL over the ground - gone are the days of having 2 or 3 decent players to hang all our hopes on. We naturally make note and mention the top 5 or so players when in actual fact they are all contributing and contributing so well. Even watching Obrien who I think might just get squeezed out - he has obviously tried so hard on his weaknesses - will it be enough? Maybe not....but credit to him.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:32 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1213
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


I'm with you FB.

Born 23rd November 2003.
He played as an 18yo ... and stood up.
Can't compare him with 24yo Fisher ... but I have no doubt 18yo Motlop is miles ahead of 18yo Fisher etc etc

Every player Arnhem Blues mentions is competing for a spot in the forward line...JSOS is not competing as a small, and fear JSOS may not be best 23 if TDK builds more strength this preseason. He has upside, as does Motlop who just turned 19 a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not convinced Owies, Durdin and Fisher are ahead of Motlop either. I see them all as borderline best 23. Cunners and Martin will be competing for one HF spot along with Honey.

Motlop is competing for a spot against Owies and Durdin. May the best man win and help us win the flag.


Born 23 Nov? Wowsers - same bday as me (not the same year sadly lol)

I liked him b4 knowing that, now I love him much more :)

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 Post subject: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
Born after I joined TBV. Now I feel bloody old

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17482
Location: threeohfivethree
CK95 wrote:
Born after I joined TBV. Now I feel bloody old

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


Yep.

Kind of freaky.

Despite the fact that I have an interesting and full life away from here my life of the last 20 years is so intertwined with this weird space.

And this place very much makes me aware of the passing of time in a way that the rest of my life doesn’t.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:21 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17598
GWS wrote:
And this place very much makes me aware of the passing of time in a way that the rest of my life doesn’t.


:clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Crusader wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…

I think the fact that all of those points culminate in “he gets into dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him” is pretty much end of story.

Motlop & Durdin are the most dangerous small forwards by a country mile.

If the others can’t contest well enough to make something out of a choppy entry, or pressure the rebound to turn the ball over, then they’ll keep getting replaced until we find someone that can.

Owies gets a game because he makes the opposition work for a rebound. He shouldn’t be hard to get past if they want his spot.


Agree. I see Motlop & Durdin as the 2 small forwards with genuine goal sense and speed etc

Owies is a worker and needs to maintain that to keep a spot. Fisher to me is more a midfielder trying to be a forward and Honey is not a small forward. I'd prefer to see him off HB with his run and long kicking

Be interesting to see how it plays out because none have established themselves yet. For us to be a genuine top 4 side in 2023 we at least 2 to step up. Coaching staff must be happy with them as we passed up a couple of small forwards in the draft


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2104
Location: Melbourne
Blue Vain wrote:
GWS wrote:
And this place very much makes me aware of the passing of time in a way that the rest of my life doesn’t.


:clap:

To me reading TC sometimes feels like Groundhog Day :smoking:

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:11 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


I'm with you FB.

Born 23rd November 2003.
He played as an 18yo ... and stood up.
Can't compare him with 24yo Fisher ... but I have no doubt 18yo Motlop is miles ahead of 18yo Fisher etc etc

Every player Arnhem Blues mentions is competing for a spot in the forward line...JSOS is not competing as a small, and fear JSOS may not be best 23 if TDK builds more strength this preseason. He has upside, as does Motlop who just turned 19 a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not convinced Owies, Durdin and Fisher are ahead of Motlop either. I see them all as borderline best 23. Cunners and Martin will be competing for one HF spot along with Honey.

Motlop is competing for a spot against Owies and Durdin. May the best man win and help us win the flag.


I agree he's very young and has a bright future but i also agree with most of Arnhem Blue's points. Motlop has plenty of potential but also plenty to work on.
And you can compare 18 year old Motlop with 24 year old Fisher because that is what is currently competing for spots.
At this stage, I have Fisher and Durdin well ahead.


The age thing does matter to me because there were games where Motlop was the stand out of the 4 ( Fisher Owies & Durdin), especially later in the season, Durdin moreso in up to the GWS game, Fisher in some games. So for an 18yo, and from the get go in his first game, shows more upside to me. I expect Durdin will improve and his shoulder may have hamprered his output later in the season. I don't see all 4 playing in the same team in 2023, and there is serious competition for small forward. I don't see Honey as a small forward. I see him as the medium forward, like Martin, and Kennedy.

The mix in 2022, possibly 2023.

2 KPFs...................................................Harry Charlie
1 Fwd-Ruck............................................TDK (Silvagni in 2022, possible in 2023)
1 Medium fwd.........................................Martin (when available)
2 small fwds...........................................Motlop Durdin
1 Fwd-Mid rotation/ interchange................Kennedy Walsh........possibly Owies, Hollands, Honey and Cottrell did well as a tagging HF vs Saints.

Interesting that Walsh started as a HFF, but joined the midfield group.

Competition for spots is fantastic for 2023, and with another preseason under their belt, all will be better than 2022, or should be given their young age.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:21 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Can’t quite get my head around the almost universal love for Motlop. He is young and will improve. But rewatched most games from this year and:
1. He doesn’t get his own ball (like durds)
2. Applies less pressure than sos or owies
3 can’t evade if chased(like fish) - handballs overhead
4 not a strong mark (like durds or Martin)
5 not so quick (like cunners)
And turns it over a lot

He does get to dangerous spots and the ball seems to find him though which is good.
In the reserves Dow was more dangerous up forward. Motlop will have his first full preseason and may start to shine but for me durds,JSOS,fish,cunners (if fit),Martin, owies (wish he could kick) are ahead and Carroll may have more overall upside…


100% disagree on all points. He will be the best small forward we have. The kid has elite traits and with his first full pre season I expect him to step up quickly. At training last week he was one that stood out. Lost that puppy fat and looks to have some muscle


I'm with you FB.

Born 23rd November 2003.
He played as an 18yo ... and stood up.
Can't compare him with 24yo Fisher ... but I have no doubt 18yo Motlop is miles ahead of 18yo Fisher etc etc

Every player Arnhem Blues mentions is competing for a spot in the forward line...JSOS is not competing as a small, and fear JSOS may not be best 23 if TDK builds more strength this preseason. He has upside, as does Motlop who just turned 19 a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not convinced Owies, Durdin and Fisher are ahead of Motlop either. I see them all as borderline best 23. Cunners and Martin will be competing for one HF spot along with Honey.

Motlop is competing for a spot against Owies and Durdin. May the best man win and help us win the flag.


I agree he's very young and has a bright future but i also agree with most of Arnhem Blue's points. Motlop has plenty of potential but also plenty to work on.
And you can compare 18 year old Motlop with 24 year old Fisher because that is what is currently competing for spots.
At this stage, I have Fisher and Durdin well ahead.


The age thing does matter to me because there were games where Motlop was the stand out of the 4 ( Fisher Owies & Durdin), especially later in the season, Durdin moreso in up to the GWS game, Fisher in some games. So for an 18yo, and from the get go in his first game, shows more upside to me. I expect Durdin will improve and his shoulder may have hamprered his output later in the season. I don't see all 4 playing in the same team in 2023, and there is serious competition for small forward. I don't see Honey as a small forward. I see him as the medium forward, like Martin, and Kennedy.

The mix in 2022, possibly 2023.

2 KPFs...................................................Harry Charlie
1 Fwd-Ruck............................................TDK (Silvagni in 2022, possible in 2023)
1 Medium fwd.........................................Martin (when available)
2 small fwds...........................................Motlop Durdin
1 Fwd-Mid rotation/ interchange................Kennedy Walsh........possibly Owies, Hollands, Honey and Cottrell did well as a tagging HF vs Saints.

Interesting that Walsh started as a HFF, but joined the midfield group.

Competition for spots is fantastic for 2023, and with another preseason under their belt, all will be better than 2022, or should be given their young age.



Agree. We can talk about Best 23 and expectations etc but IMO there are two obvious keys to next year

1. A decent injury run. Every successful side keeps it's players on the park and we have had a shocker last few years

2. Improvement in the players that aren't yet establised. Motlop Durdin Carroll Boyd Hollands Cowan O'Brien Cottrell TDK Kemp Philp Dow could well make the difference. If a 2-4 of these players can go to the next level then we are greatly improved

If these two things happen I believe we are Top 4


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17482
Location: threeohfivethree
Blue Vain wrote:
GWS wrote:
And this place very much makes me aware of the passing of time in a way that the rest of my life doesn’t.


:clap:


I think you might have been at PP at least one of the days I took my 18 month old daughter to training back in 2003.

Might be where we first met.

She turns 21 next month.

We did a lot of steps walking up and down the grandstand back then which is apparently what you do when you’ve recently discovered walking.

Didn’t see all that much of training but good times nonetheless.

@#$%&! we’re old… :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:02 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
GWS wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
GWS wrote:
And this place very much makes me aware of the passing of time in a way that the rest of my life doesn’t.


:clap:


I think you might have been at PP at least one of the days I took my 18 month old daughter to training back in 2003.

Might be where we first met.

She turns 21 next month.

We did a lot of steps walking up and down the grandstand back then which is apparently what you do when you’ve recently discovered walking.

Didn’t see all that much of training but good times nonetheless.

@#$%&! we’re old… :lol:


My daughter is 40.

Her kids call her old.


They call me ancient. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 17482
Location: threeohfivethree
I’m 53 in February Teddy so still have a few years left hopefully but I’ve lost four close friends aged 53 over the last 13 years and despite not being particularly prone to superstition it’s a weird year ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
GWS wrote:
I’m 53 in February Teddy so still have a few years left hopefully but I’ve lost four close friends aged 53 over the last 13 years and despite not being particularly prone to superstition it’s a weird year ahead.

Interesting you say that GWS. I have lost friends over the years and in the immortal words of Goldberg, WHO'S NEXT


Not so funny when it is your generation.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17482
Location: threeohfivethree
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
GWS wrote:
I’m 53 in February Teddy so still have a few years left hopefully but I’ve lost four close friends aged 53 over the last 13 years and despite not being particularly prone to superstition it’s a weird year ahead.

Interesting you say that GWS. I have lost friends over the years and in the immortal words of Goldberg, WHO'S NEXT


Not so funny when it is your generation.


Thankfully Moshe got well beyond 53 but I’ve lost a lot of close ones over the last decade and a bit and 53 is weirdly both the most likely age and the median of the others.

Hopefully see you in a bit over a year… :smile:

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