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 Post subject: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:44 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Well according to Dons fans, he's better than Saad, so that sounds great :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:40 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
I'm with Crusader on this. Speed doesn't guarantee pressure, but it makes it a lot easier. Once the ball gets out in space, we struggle to apply enough pressure to win the ball back. If we're really committed to AFL all-ground pressure, I think we need more leg speed.


Cottrell's and Saad's speed supports your position. Their speed is an obvious weapon when closing down space and applying pressure on an opponent.

Who is too slow?

I think Pittonet, Weitering and Silvagni are slow, with the former 2 required to be strong and heavy enough to hold position and compete against the gorillas.

Cripps isnt quick but he's an inside bull, and when he has the ball he knows what to do to draw an opponent, free his arms and give it off or, confident and smart enough to create space and run with the ball.

Who is too slow from the rest of the best 25?

Cripps, Kennedy, George, Doc, Williams, Marchbank, Motlop, Fisher & O’Brien - although I haven’t got him in my best 25.


Marchbank will surprise. he's quicker than Cripps, Hewett and Kennedy over 20m.
I wouldnt be surprised if he was quicker than Motlop Fisher and OBrien over 20m ... also just out of my best 25

But get your point.

If say Hind from Effendopes was available would you replace any of the abovementioned with him? He has express speed.

I’d swap O’Brien for a bag of those recalled Smith’s salt & vinegar chips, but that’s not the point.

We’re the easiest team in the comp to scout. But, if we could salt the midfield and half forward zone with some proper defensive speed, it would take the power game to an unassailable level.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:46 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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afl.com's Riley Beveridge's best 22

Quote:
The addition of Blake Acres is an immediate upgrade on the wing, which is an area Carlton had identified as in need of strengthening. Nic Newman is likely ahead of both Caleb Marchbank and Jordan Boyd as the side's seventh defender, although it's a close battle. Meanwhile, the flexibility of Jack Martin gets him the nod over Matt Cottrell. Expect the exciting Tom De Koning to edge Marc Pittonet in the primary ruck role, with Jack Silvagni providing the relief option. Sam Docherty and Zac Williams could be eyed to play additional midfield minutes next season, with Zac Fisher another who can step into the role. A number of the club's former first-round picks – including Lochie O'Brien, Paddy Dow, Brodie Kemp, David Cuningham and Sam Philp – are in reserve. – Riley Beveridge

B: Mitch McGovern, Jacob Weitering, Sam Docherty
HB: Zac Williams, Lewis Young, Adam Saad
C: Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra, Blake Acres
HF: Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Zac Fisher
F: Corey Durdin, Harry McKay, Matt Owies
Foll: Tom De Koning, Patrick Cripps, George Hewett
I/C: Jack Silvagni, Jesse Motlop, Matt Kennedy, Nic Newman

Emerg: Lochie O'Brien, Caleb Marchbank, Marc Pittonet, Matt Cottrell


https://www.afl.com.au/news/858778/your-club-s-best-22-in-2023-who-s-in-who-s-out-who-s-new

We have a few first rounders in reserve. You can add Marchbank to that list too, to make it 6 first rounders in reserve.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
afl.com's Riley Beveridge's best 22

Quote:
The addition of Blake Acres is an immediate upgrade on the wing, which is an area Carlton had identified as in need of strengthening. Nic Newman is likely ahead of both Caleb Marchbank and Jordan Boyd as the side's seventh defender, although it's a close battle. Meanwhile, the flexibility of Jack Martin gets him the nod over Matt Cottrell. Expect the exciting Tom De Koning to edge Marc Pittonet in the primary ruck role, with Jack Silvagni providing the relief option. Sam Docherty and Zac Williams could be eyed to play additional midfield minutes next season, with Zac Fisher another who can step into the role. A number of the club's former first-round picks – including Lochie O'Brien, Paddy Dow, Brodie Kemp, David Cuningham and Sam Philp – are in reserve. – Riley Beveridge

B: Mitch McGovern, Jacob Weitering, Sam Docherty
HB: Zac Williams, Lewis Young, Adam Saad
C: Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra, Blake Acres
HF: Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Zac Fisher
F: Corey Durdin, Harry McKay, Matt Owies
Foll: Tom De Koning, Patrick Cripps, George Hewett
I/C: Jack Silvagni, Jesse Motlop, Matt Kennedy, Nic Newman

Emerg: Lochie O'Brien, Caleb Marchbank, Marc Pittonet, Matt Cottrell


https://www.afl.com.au/news/858778/your-club-s-best-22-in-2023-who-s-in-who-s-out-who-s-new

We have a few first rounders in reserve. You can add Marchbank to that list too, to make it 6 first rounders in reserve.

Can you take those same 22 names and line them up in a way that still looks threatening with, for example, Cripps & George off the ball?

5-10min per quarter where the magnets are in a different spot.

How do you get Walsh into the game from where he’s lined up there? He’s forced onto the wing in that lineup. It’s a colossal waste of match-winning talent.

Doc, Newy & Fatso Williams can’t help. It’s too much turf to defend.

Fisher & Martin? We’ve seen this one before.

As I say, we’re very easy to scout. Some of these unknowns - Philp, Honey, Boyd and the like - need to graduate. Otherwise Vossy’s collar is going to feel like something Philip K. Dick dreamed up.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7370
Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
I'm with Crusader on this. Speed doesn't guarantee pressure, but it makes it a lot easier. Once the ball gets out in space, we struggle to apply enough pressure to win the ball back. If we're really committed to AFL all-ground pressure, I think we need more leg speed.


Cottrell's and Saad's speed supports your position. Their speed is an obvious weapon when closing down space and applying pressure on an opponent.

Who is too slow?

I think Pittonet, Weitering and Silvagni are slow, with the former 2 required to be strong and heavy enough to hold position and compete against the gorillas.

Cripps isnt quick but he's an inside bull, and when he has the ball he knows what to do to draw an opponent, free his arms and give it off or, confident and smart enough to create space and run with the ball.

Who is too slow from the rest of the best 25?

Cripps, Kennedy, George, Doc, Williams, Marchbank, Motlop, Fisher & O’Brien - although I haven’t got him in my best 25.


I think Williams is quick. And Docherty and Marchbank are fine. But I'd add Cerra, Owies, Fogarty, Newman, Plowman to the slowish list. Obviously you can play with some slowish players, but it's about getting the balance right.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7370
bondiblue wrote:
afl.com's Riley Beveridge's best 22

Quote:
The addition of Blake Acres is an immediate upgrade on the wing, which is an area Carlton had identified as in need of strengthening. Nic Newman is likely ahead of both Caleb Marchbank and Jordan Boyd as the side's seventh defender, although it's a close battle. Meanwhile, the flexibility of Jack Martin gets him the nod over Matt Cottrell. Expect the exciting Tom De Koning to edge Marc Pittonet in the primary ruck role, with Jack Silvagni providing the relief option. Sam Docherty and Zac Williams could be eyed to play additional midfield minutes next season, with Zac Fisher another who can step into the role. A number of the club's former first-round picks – including Lochie O'Brien, Paddy Dow, Brodie Kemp, David Cuningham and Sam Philp – are in reserve. – Riley Beveridge

B: Mitch McGovern, Jacob Weitering, Sam Docherty
HB: Zac Williams, Lewis Young, Adam Saad
C: Sam Walsh, Adam Cerra, Blake Acres
HF: Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Zac Fisher
F: Corey Durdin, Harry McKay, Matt Owies
Foll: Tom De Koning, Patrick Cripps, George Hewett
I/C: Jack Silvagni, Jesse Motlop, Matt Kennedy, Nic Newman

Emerg: Lochie O'Brien, Caleb Marchbank, Marc Pittonet, Matt Cottrell


https://www.afl.com.au/news/858778/your-club-s-best-22-in-2023-who-s-in-who-s-out-who-s-new

We have a few first rounders in reserve. You can add Marchbank to that list too, to make it 6 first rounders in reserve.


At this stage, I want Boyd in defence. Docherty on a wing. Walsh in the midfield rotation. Pittonet instead of Silvagni. Cuningham instead of Owies. And Cottrell on the bench. I'd also be playing Weiters at CHB and Young as FB. Give Weiters more chance to free up and intercept.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Posts: 16786
Stefchook wrote:
At this stage, I want Boyd in defence. Docherty on a wing. Walsh in the midfield rotation. Pittonet instead of Silvagni. Cuningham instead of Owies. And Cottrell on the bench. I'd also be playing Weiters at CHB and Young as FB. Give Weiters more chance to free up and intercept.


Replacing who?

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:34 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Stefchook wrote:
Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.


It must be Motlop because the others were already out reading your ins/outs.
FWIW, I think those changes are pretty close to the mark although Cuningham will have to prove his fitness and earn his spot.
I'm actually hoping Philp has a big pre-season and commands a wing spot.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:48 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Blue Vain wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.


It must be Motlop because the others were already out reading your ins/outs.
FWIW, I think those changes are pretty close to the mark although Cuningham will have to prove his fitness and earn his spot.
I'm actually hoping Philp has a big pre-season and commands a wing spot.



Philp and Honey were looking like our rising stars in 2020, but injury stalled their progress in 2021.

Philp came to us as an inside-outside mid. At 188cm's, Philp's speed and tackling would be ideal on a wing. I'm glad the MC decided to put him on ice, after he recovered from groin issue with only 2 rounds to go.

I still hold hope he will have a huge preseason and makes it. Philp adds express speed.

Same can be said about 185cm Cuningham.

All these first rounders on the periphery ... someone or two has to breakout in 2023.

Who does Philp bump out if he commands a wing spot in your team BV?

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:31 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.


It must be Motlop because the others were already out reading your ins/outs.
FWIW, I think those changes are pretty close to the mark although Cuningham will have to prove his fitness and earn his spot.
I'm actually hoping Philp has a big pre-season and commands a wing spot.



Philp and Honey were looking like our rising stars in 2020, but injury stalled their progress in 2021.

Philp came to us as an inside-outside mid. At 188cm's, Philp's speed and tackling would be ideal on a wing. I'm glad the MC decided to put him on ice, after he recovered from groin issue with only 2 rounds to go.

I still hold hope he will have a huge preseason and makes it. Philp adds express speed.

Same can be said about 185cm Cuningham.

All these first rounders on the periphery ... someone or two has to breakout in 2023.

Who does Philp bump out if he commands a wing spot in your team BV?

Philp will appreciate that extra inch you’ve given him Bondi (wouldn’t we all).

As much as I’d like to have him in the ‘versatile mid’ group, the reality is that he’s all inside. He might have all of the athletic capabilities required for an outside game, but he just can’t defend from a distance - that one trait that makes a winger a winger. Shutting down the overlap before it happens.

I think he could be great in the role that George plays, or as a high half forward that can add variety to the way we set up at stoppages.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I still don't know if Philp can actually play. Kemp missed a year with a knee and he's played more often than Philp.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Stefchook wrote:
Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.

I have high hopes for Motlop and will be disappointed if he isn't a regular in our 22 next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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bondiblue wrote:
Who does Philp bump out if he commands a wing spot in your team BV?


It would be between Philp and Cuningham, Bondi.
Both need to prove their durability and both need to find more of the ball on a consistent basis.
If Philp comes in, he plays wing. If its Cuningham, he plays H/F and Walsh/Fisher rotate on the wing.

Young is probably the weakest link IMHO. Too uncertain with the ball.
I'm hoping we pick up a tall defender in the draft and give him every opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:39 pm 
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John Nicholls
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I’m a little surprised by your Young comment BV. I thought he was exceptional, especially when Weitering was missing. I feel he will only get better and better from here.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think you’re both right.

Young IS uncertain with the ball and gets caught in the headlights a bit but he was exceptional under immense duress and with not a whole lot of support at times.

Put a solid regular group and system around him and he could be a long term player for us.

He’s a long way ahead of Liam Jones at the same age.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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43 games and first season with us - Youngie will grow into a very valuable asset


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Humpers wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
Any of Owies, Silvagni, Motlop and Newman.

I have high hopes for Motlop and will be disappointed if he isn't a regular in our 22 next year.


Yeah, I like him as well. What he's got going for him is that he's a goalkicker. Moreso than Owies or Durdin. And I expect him to play plenty over the next few years. However, I think we need to inject more speed, and so I've got him missing for the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I kept hearing about Youngs double grab marks, but what I saw was a very reliable and capable overhead mark who marks the ball at the highest point with a clean grab most of the time.

My only gripe with Young is when he marks the ball, he doesn't get back behind the mark quick enough before he executes. Somehow he has got away without his kick being smothered, but one day...

He has to learn to handball 10m quickly if he wants to give it off, rather than kicking it 10m with a lot of height...ie bit of a hospital pass. he's lucky he's got away with it all year, but one day ...

Otherwise, he's the reason I didn't miss Jones in 2022.

Cerra and Hewett were the recruits of the year, but Young who just turned 23yo this year, and Boyd had the breakout years imo.

Young is best 22 for me. 200ck KPD's don't grow on trees.

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 Post subject: Re: Best 23 Team in 2023
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Stefchook wrote:
I still don't know if Philp can actually play. Kemp missed a year with a knee and he's played more often than Philp.


I thought he looked great in his first couple games...great closing down speed. Goal sense. Bloody quick too.

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