Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:08 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:31 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 3130
Here is my take.

Obviously we have improved.
In terms of Wins, 2022 (12 wins) was our best year since 2011 when we won 14 games.
And we went from 13th on the ladder in 2021 to 9th in 2022.
Had we had better luck with injuries, we probably would have made finals.

I imagine a lot of the credit needs to go to the coach and his coaches.
They appear to have instilled belief and a clearer and more defensive game plan.

Great to see was some growth among some of our young players.
The one who stands out the most is Young. He has come from pretty much nowhere to be one of our key pillars down back.
Like Young, who was presented with opportunity through injury to other players, TDK also stepped up when Pitto went down and the young man performed more than admirably in the ruck for a sustained period. We also saw glimpses in Carroll and Motlop, while Cottrell and LOB made good progress. I also like the look of Boyd and it would appear Kemp has has had a good few weeks in the VFL. Not quite 'young young' but it was good to see Cerra play his best game for the club yesterday and Setterfield also has had a good two weeks.

And obviously Curnow and Doc's years were quite remarkable, both players coming off sustained periods of injury and illness to have huge years. And obviously it was good to see Cripps bounce back after a few years clearly hampered by injury.

And it was pleasing to see that injury plagued quartet of McGovern, Marchbank, Williams and Martin all play in the last game. Fingers crossed these guys stay fit in 2023. They are all very talented footballers.

In terms of negatives, I think our small forwards were probably the one group that arguably didn't perform as well as we might have hoped. They apply good forward defensive pressure but I don't think their scoring returns were great (Motlop 10, Owies 13, Durdin 15). Maybe I am being a tad harsh as they are all young players but I just think we need one of these guys to really emerge as a topline small forward for us to take the next step. This could be one area where we make notable improvement in 2023.

I also think we need to go to work on our general ball movement (and I understand this is still a work in progress). While I am personally critical of our ball movement - I think we move the ball too slow - I can understand Voss needed to teach the players to defend better against the transition and a slower, more considered game style was likely necessary in Year One. I am buoyed by the fact Voss in last night's post game interview said that they will look to modify the way we play moving forwards. I think when you have the two most recent Coleman Medalists on your list you should probably look to get it in to their area relatively quickly. It also goes without saying we need to improve our midfield-forward connectivity, and the forwards in turn need to convert better. We won the clearance and I50 stats yesterday but were not efficient going forwards.

Obviously one cannot write a summary of 2022 without mentioning the last 2 weeks. On the upside it was great we can re-discover our mojo and go toe-to-toe with 2 top 4 teams, but clearly there is work to be done in terms of educating the players and on the players showing greater maturity and composure. I am not sure this team knows how to win yet and I think our onfield leaders need to play a greater role onfield (not just getting hands on ball but directing teammates especially when the game is on the line). And as frustrating as the last 2 weeks have been the reality is we probably pinched a few tight games early in the year. As Voss said last night you get what you deserve in football. I think our season balanced out in the wash up.

Moving forwards I think we have most of the pieces of the puzzle. Maybe we could do with a bit more speed in the midfield. We seem to have a very large number of big bodied midfielders (we are probably over-represented here tbh) but not a lot of zip. Problem is I am not sure we have much cap space to bring a quality, experienced quick midfielder into the club. I also think it might be time to draft a young tall forward. Young talls take years to develop and by the time we develop a new one the likes of McKay and Curnow will be late 20s so it might be good to invest in a young tall forward soon.

Overall it was a good year in the sense we seem to have moved on from the previous years of underperformance and the list is good but I think even the most die hard and positive fan will acknowledge there is a lot of work to be done not just by the players (young and experienced) but also by the coaches and fitness staff. I agree with an ex coach that the score (and ladder position) at the end of the day is the true reflection. Well we finished 9th and missed finals and it is another year where the likes of Cripps and Doc and Curnow and McKay and Weitering miss their maiden final. There are 18 teams in this competition and the scoreboard shows we finished 9th, which means we are mid table.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:49 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 15875
Location: Left Cuckistan
Too soon.

_________________
The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:53 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 2892
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
Definitely glass half full on the season as a whole. Loved the coaches press conference after the game yesterday.

At the start of the season I probably would have taken 12 wins.

At 8-2 I expected more.

My biggest concern is strength and conditioning - I get that a lot of injuries are unavoidable (see Pittonet and Weiters) but I am forever frustrated with players having re-occurring soft tissue injuries or setbacks when they're in the rehab group. We have looked off the pace late in games often so is it base fitness or do we just have players who can't build a decent tank?

Needs - speed and precision kicking. Our spine is elite and should be for years but our spread from a defensive kick out or turnover in our defensive half is still way too slow which enables opposition defences to set up behind the ball - the knock on is ordinary fwd 50 entries

List changes are coming - Voss alluded to "difficult decisions" so there might be some blood on the floor - so long as it addresses needs and makes us better let's do it.

_________________
I'm shocked to be sitting here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:20 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7420
Either way it was certainly progression. It is a part of the rocky road up and coming sides run into. We beat 4 top 8 sides, would have been 6 if we didn't choke. 3rd qtr is some of the best stuff in years. When we have let rip in games we have looked spectacular, so it certainly a forward step. Other issues held us back.

Leaders need to learn to step up. Our set up was putrid that let to the Pies winning goal. Been an issue for a few years and nothing has ever been learnt. A couple more blokes behind the ball and that goal isn't kicked. Instead Ginnivan and Elliot got out the back too easily.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:53 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5361
PROS-
First time in over a decade that I was disappointed when the season ended. By August, I’m usually begging for the season to be over and for the trade/draft period to start.
Charlie & Harry getting some continuity playing together.
The successful returns of Doc & Charlie, and the late season return of Marchbank.
Winning 12 games. It’s been a long time since we won more than we lost in a season.
Charlie winning the Coleman and committing to the club long term.
Our young group experiencing playing multiple finals like games.
Kennedy & Saad going up a level. Walsh & Cripps maintaining high performance standards.
The players we brought in from other clubs (Cerra, Hewitt & Young) look like good pick ups.
Carroll & Motlop debuted and appear to have a future.
Overall improvement from Boyd, Cottrell, Owies, LOB, TDK & Durdin.
We got a full VFL season. VFL team made the finals.
Voss & Cook performed strongly in the media and represented the club well. They consistently said we are not “the finished product”, even when there was early/mid season hype around us.
With the exception of the Brisbane & Geelong games, we were “in” every match and won (most) we were expected to win. Eg. wins over NM, GWS, Ess, WCE.
Recognition of footy industry that our best is elite and that Bluebaggers are the noisiest and most loyal members.

CONS-
Didn’t make the finals.
Yet another season impacted by injuries. Another review of the injury prevention/management space is required.
The season was too long for us. Mentally & physically we seemed to do it hard once winter set in. Injury toll was a major factor.
Disposal efficiency. After injury management, this is the other big ticket item we need to address urgently.
Dow is looking like a waste of a first draft pick. I can’t see him at Carlton next year unfortunately.
Williams, Martin, Marchbank & McGovern - good players who don’t get on the park enough.
Cunningham. The invisible man.
Ed Curnow’s career ends with a whimper.
Weitering wasn’t the same player after his shoulder injury.
Disappointing efforts against Adel & StKilda.
Our game style requires a good wingman - but we don’t have an elite one.
While lead changes and momentum swings are established parts of modern footy, we seem more vulnerable than most to surrendering an in-game advantage. Winning needs to become a habit.

_________________
To one who, journeying thru night & fog
Is mired neck-deep in an unwholesome bog
Experience, like the rising of dawn
Reveals the path he should not have gone

- Ambrose Bierce


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:27 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 4781
Success or failure ? success in AFL is measured in Premierships so it is a fail along with the other Clubs that don't win the Flag . Of course thats like saying if you are not Dux of your class you are a failure . So i will go to the end of the year speech night where you get all those awards other than school Dux . Do they still give a Competitive Effort/Accomplishment Award ? Thats where the season sits with me . We progressed with hopefully more juice in the tank .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:40 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10125
Location: Coburg
People started to hate us again

and then we gave them back their laughter

that's the season.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:58 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 30581
Location: Half back flank
Good summary paddy

Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:15 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 3130
Hopefully the players get motivated over summer and then into season 2023 by remembering what Jason Dunstall said last night "You just did a Carlton" (reference to a fail I believe - I actually missed the context)

Our failures this year especially the last 2 games need to burn deep into every player on the list and motivate them to make whatever changes are needed to improve in 2023. Be it extra weight sessions, extra running sessions, extra skills sessions, eating better, whatever.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:20 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5361
Paddycripps wrote:
Our failures this year especially the last 2 games need to burn deep into every player on the list and motivate them to make whatever changes are needed to improve in 2023. Be it extra weight sessions, extra running sessions, extra skills sessions, eating better, whatever.

Voss said as much in the post game (which I recommend watching if you haven’t already). He said he told the players after the game to “remember this feeling” whenever they are thinking about not doing an extra session etc.

_________________
To one who, journeying thru night & fog
Is mired neck-deep in an unwholesome bog
Experience, like the rising of dawn
Reveals the path he should not have gone

- Ambrose Bierce


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:23 pm 
Offline
Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 81
Paddycripps wrote:
Hopefully the players get motivated over summer and then into season 2023 by remembering what Jason Dunstall said last night "You just did a Carlton" (reference to a fail I believe - I actually missed the context)

Our failures this year especially the last 2 games need to burn deep into every player on the list and motivate them to make whatever changes are needed to improve in 2023. Be it extra weight sessions, extra running sessions, extra skills sessions, eating better, whatever.
Speaking of Dunstall, wouldn't hurt to get him down to the club to give the boys some set shot tips.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:29 pm 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20055
Those last two games will do more for us next year than playing Brisbane in Brisbane in an elimination final. Two huge games, played with massive intensity.

We stood up, could easily have won, and did against two top 4 teams, with key players injured, playing injured, and even coming back from injury with limited game time.

If we can stay healthy, get players more durable, add natural improvement and cohesion as a team, we will come back next year with 15/16 wins.

Some things are meant to happen, we now have the pain to fuel the rise.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:39 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 18675
Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
I enjoyed footy this year. My daughter willingly came to games with me. We went to Perth for the West Coast games and we played some exhilarating footy.

We dropped too many 30pt+ wins back to wins under 3 goals which cost our percentage dearly and ultimately a finals spot.

Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, even north and west coast... We left too many points out there in those games and the Adelaide and St Kilda losses were horrendous

I think we know where we're at. We know our deficiencies.

Season is a leap forward and I'm confident we will build.

Top 4 in 2023 for mine.

_________________
Congratulations CK95


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:47 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 410
Just keep Collective Minds away from the club in the off season.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:04 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 5139
Location: Bendigo
2022 was the most enjoyable season I’ve had since the head nodders sacked a passionate club man and appointed the most boring cauliflower in football as coach - and then let him wash over the place like Agent Orange. No flair. No spunk. Just employees punching in and out.

I have to learn how to barrack around other people again. Because I barrack again. I’m also moping around like someone’s just shat in my favourite hat, so I guess I’m back into footy now.

Clearly, there were a bunch of positives throughout the season… but, I just can’t get my head around the way we turned it up in Adelaide. That was a whole-of-club failure that wasn’t rectified until Vossy went down to coach from the bench in Brisbane.

The best sides have conceded goals in bunches, it happens. We let it carry over for another three quarters.

So this is my take away for the year - I think we have a multiple premiership list.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:11 pm 
Online
Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2098
Pretty sure I have Stockholm syndrome


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:15 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2041
I agree that Vossy hit the key points in his presser.
It's the small things which all add up to wins, percentage, outcome.
The players need to incorporate that into their thinking, their training, their body maintenance and prep, daily habits/routines and attitudes to/within games.
Plus he and the coaches need to go to work on game plan and training and pre-season etc...
Plus health & fitness team needs a review given all the injuries.
As well as the need to leverage this hurt over the pre-season and I particularly liked that Brian Cook said we need that to burn through us for the coming years (not just pre-season, not just next season...).

My overall thoughts:
- Huge leap forwards in terms of game plan, mindset, intensity etc...
- Given our start to the year, massive missed opportunity. Who knows if we will get it again? I believe we will but there are no guarantees.
- I think there are three or four key areas to work on (& Vossy covered them) but summarised as 'Increasing our capacity to perform at a higher level for longer' (in games, and throughout the season). This has a fitness/strength, a health component, a game plan component, and a mental component. And I suspect a personnel component.
- I think our list is largely in good shape. Would like a bit more midfield depth, either from internal personnel or another recruit or two (not Karl Amon though).
- I honestly don't think we were a realistic Premiership chance this year. Given that, I would have loved to get some finals experience but I think we've had the big game experience, and the pain of just missing out will be a bigger advantage than the potential risk that we just scrape in and the boys feel like they've been a huge success. Rather, they feel crap and think back to every time they backed off on or off the field even a little - because that is the difference between a good team and a great team!

FWIW, I thought Cerra set a new bar on Sunday that he now needs to maintain consistently. I thought Williams was excellent, esp first game back - that gives me some faith in the fitness team and the coaches. Hopefully, McGovern and Martin can now stay fit. I feel like Marchbank is back on track now and the few games he's had this season will set him up well for next year.
I think Motlop was fantastic for his first year in terms of pressure and scoreboard output. Durdin and Owies were great in terms of pressure but need to significantly lift their scoring output. I'd think they should be hitting high-20s or 30+ goals per season.

For the first time in a long time, I'm hardly concerned about the draft/trade period whereas for the past however many years, this was the most exciting time of my AFL-year!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:26 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 3130
The Normal One wrote:
Those last two games will do more for us next year than playing Brisbane in Brisbane in an elimination final. Two huge games, played with massive intensity.

We stood up, could easily have won, and did against two top 4 teams, with key players injured, playing injured, and even coming back from injury with limited game time.

If we can stay healthy, get players more durable, add natural improvement and cohesion as a team, we will come back next year with 15/16 wins.

Some things are meant to happen, we now have the pain to fuel the rise.


Ironic isn't it, that maybe qualifying but getting soundly beaten by Brisbane again could have a more detrimental effect than losing to Coll by 1pt and missing out on finals


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:30 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 3130
17th Premiership wrote:
Who knows if we will get it again? I believe we will but there are no guarantees.


This is why I get so frustrated with our falling short and losing the last 4 and losing to Adelaide and St Kilda.

I look at Collingwood, they aren't a patch on us at contested ball etc but they have the double chance now.

Yes we are arguably on a good curve but nothing is guaranteed as you said

But I do agree we would not have won the flag, I mean we clearly were not good enough for anywhere near long enough (often enough)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:31 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 13096
bluehammer wrote:
I enjoyed footy this year. My daughter willingly came to games with me. We went to Perth for the West Coast games and we played some exhilarating footy.

We dropped too many 30pt+ wins back to wins under 3 goals which cost our percentage dearly and ultimately a finals spot.

Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, even north and west coast... We left too many points out there in those games and the Adelaide and St Kilda losses were horrendous

I think we know where we're at. We know our deficiencies.

Season is a leap forward and I'm confident we will build.

Top 4 in 2023 for mine.

You hit the nail on the head regarding our %.
Early in the season when we beat Hawthorn and Port by narrow margins we had 40/50 point leads.
Win both of those by say 15-20 points and we are in the 8.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group