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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:53 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2045
FWIW, my take is:
1) His intention was hard but fair
2) Despite that, I thought the end result of the act/outcome meant 70-30 likelihood of suspension under AFL rules/guidelines
3) Given (2), thought the 2 week suspension was fair from the tribunal, albeit I would have leaned the other way
4) BUT, the legal team screwed up on a technicality. We exploited that in our 2nd appeal and won.

V happy with the outcome. Suggest, the AFL will make sure next time to cross their t's and dot their i's...

(PS. I feel like Ginnivan - amongst others - have gotten away with a lot more every week on exploiting technicalities than we did once off last night )


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I hear Shane Watson's going to appeal the decision

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:01 pm 
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John Nicholls
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I am going to enjoy the 15 frees the umpires pay against Cripps this week. He won't be able to breathe on anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:04 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 8573
https://www.afl.com.au/news/817981/upda ... s-decision



Quote:
The AFL on Friday accepted the decision but said it was "far too early" to say whether the decision will prompt changes to Tribunal procedures

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3188
Genuinely surprised by this result.


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 36178
Location: seaside
bondiblue wrote:
tommi wrote:
I was wrong….

i didn’t want to appeal and lose…!

appealing and winning didn’t even cross
my mind…!

as everyone is saying…lets use this as a stepping
stone to the finals…!


kindest regards tommi







hey…we’re still at $41 for the flag…a sneaky
$24.50 for a $1,004.50 return…!



At least you admit it.

But did you think Cripps was guilty as opposed to not wanting to Appeal in a corrupted AFL court? or the otherway around?




Well….

it reminded me of Hamill…too much time spent
for no return…!

but that didn’t happen…!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7261
Agree Tommi but that was because whole process got to Hamill and by game time was completely spent
Also appeal rules different then and Club had to go to SC

Hopefully Cripps doesn’t have the same reaction

He needs to be ready for the boos of course but hopefully just fires him up


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2098
CFC8795 wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
The saltiness of opposition supporters today is delicious.

I haven’t been abused this hard since the last time we were good

When we beat Melbourne, they'll be worse. :thumbsup: .
Go Blues!


I hope so. I’m actually willing to be punched!


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2098
I’ve always thought that I’d like Cripps (and several others) to be a bit more physical, play closer to the edge of you like. We haven’t had a genuine villain since Williams and we know how he thrives on it. I hope Cripps embraces the boos and it drives him to be BOG every time he runs out.

We were better when we had villains!!


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:43 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 3130
I think ultimately it was line ball.
I mean who's to say what was going through Cripps' head?
AFL can't say for certain he was thinking BUMP.


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2098
Paddycripps wrote:
I think ultimately it was line ball.
I mean who's to say what was going through Cripps' head?
AFL can't say for certain he was thinking BUMP.


I know what was going through AhChee’s head….Crippa’s @ss


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
DesEnglish wrote:
So, the AFL will take themselves to court??



Untouchable means untouchable.

They think they wield as much power as a High Court Judge.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:10 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
carntheblues wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
daggs001 wrote:
Cripps appeal: Questioning the chairperson's role at the Tribunal
Cripps' counsel Christopher Townshend is 35 minutes into their submission.

He is hammering the point that the Tribunal chairman on Tuesday night – Jeff Gleeson – should have given directions to the two-member jury on questions of law and fact.

In previous years the chairman gave directions to a three-member jury, but was not involved in the decision-making, whereas now he is.

Townshend has read laws that suggest this should have happened to give a fair hearing.

This is the error in law, he says.

"The fundamental obligation of the Tribunal is to give natural justice," he said.

"The chairperson did not pause to give directions before retiring.

"The findings the Tribunal came up with behind closed doors is they came up with two things at once (that it was a contest and that he chose to bump). It should have required some directions.

"It can't happen behind closed doors, that can't be right." – Michael Whiting



WOW.

No mincing words.
That alone is a win for not only Carlton but for Football Clubs too.

Huge statement. Subtlety is beautiful, questioning the bias of Gleeson, interfering with natural justice in football matters.

Was it a bump or was he reaching out his arms to catch the ball in the air, and turning to protect the space. Whether to jump or not is not in question. Contesting is mandatory as far as the rules go, what the fans want, what the game needs to keep its fabric, and the players with that competitive gene are prepared to give us, the footy community.

Let him free. Cripps didn’t bump. That’s all the AFL has. It’s laughable. :grin:


To all those posters and those in the media who thought 2 weeks equals justice, well, you took the easy option and didnt look deep enough, nor look for justice.
.
Its not just about Cripps playing. its about getting the AFL off our back, and time to stand up for ourselves, to let the AFL know, we will no longer be your scapegoat for your agenda. The whole claim was corrupt.

20 years of corrupted adjudication against Carlton is enough. We're not gonna take it.

And, in this Putinless country we are innocent till proven guilty!!!

and today.....

Quote:
Carlton, represented by Christopher Townshend QC, argued the tribunal diverted from the correct interpretation of the phrase ‘in the bumping of an opponent’.


Quote:
The Blues also argued there was a “denial of natural justice” due to the conduct of proceedings at the tribunal, suggesting there was an error of law and fact.


Quote:
Nicholas Pane as the AFL's QC.

He then argued there was no denial of justice as the appeal became centred around what constitutes a bumping action.


and so it should be if the AFL's case rested on an emotive appeal that it was a "Classic Bump" which it was not!!

Quote:
[AFL] ... also stated a player could have eyes on the ball and still be in the action of bumping an opponent, something Townshend disputed.


Coulda, woulda, shoulda.....WTF is this, a Kangaroo court? Well, no more. Stick to facts AFL and stop lying.

No wonder this Appeal took 4 hours. The thick heads in the AFL refuse to accept the truth.

It takes that long to show and prove (ad nauseum) the truth. It's the difficulty clubs face when the AFL goes into a court with an agenda, not seeking the truth and justice.
It took that long to find the AFL is making up rubbish in their own unaccountable domain, because the AFL think they can make up stories, without facts and get away with it.

And to prove the AFL's process, and claims were unjust, who do you think had to pay for that privilege?
Carlton Football Club had to pay for justice. Do we get a refund? Change? Nah, it stays in the AFLs pockets. Its a farce ... the AFL win one way or another.

And some posters, Carlton people, thought the Appeal was a waste of soft cap money, a deflection from the game, disruptive, that the media were right ... honestly it sickens me to think Carltonians would just continue to accept being bashed by the corrupt AFL.

The AFL is a boys club, and they kicked us out to have total power and control over all football matters, right or wrong, and they don't want us in there to hold them to account, because we were the club who created the AFL Commission in good faith and their disrespect of the Carlton Football Club is too obvious to ignore.

Quote:
The appeals board found the findings of the tribunal jury were unreasonable due to a failure to afford procedural fairness which resulted in an error of law.


And Michael Christian, you were wrong! Again!

CARLTON's APPEAL IS JUSTIFIED



Do you feel better now BB?


I feels good.
Like I knew that I would.

So Good
So Good

Got justice.

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
frank dardew wrote:
Hi Bondi not having a crack but I know a bit about this

Gleeson has only been tribunal chair this year so he had nothing to do with tribunal decisions anytime before 2022

Was AFL advocate for a number of years but that is different to being chair

And barristers are hired guns who argue for whatever side of the argument is on

He is a man of complete integrity

Yes he made a mistake but the reason why the case went so long and the deliberations of the panel took so long at the Appeal is that it obviously was a fine line as to whether he had done the wrong thing or not


I sit on a number of tribunals sport and Commercial -not the AFL - and a ground for appeal that is almost a catch all is on the basis of procedural fairness

In 2020 one of my decisions was appealed to the Supreme Court on this basis ended up being upheld by the SC but arguments both ways


I respect your reasoning and your position on Gleeson.

I understand the legal process, and the joy Barristers get from debating the law, in the hope of a win. Its sport in a sense.

I admit I was caught up in the emotion of it all (....a tad hysterical perhaps...ah, the passion of a Bluebagger) and it was the 3 cases this year Gleeson was on the other side (Young, Hayes and Cripps) where, I agree he was just doing his job, but he rubbed me the wrong way with his claims. The reality is, Gleeson had his way with us and we didn't play it smart against a smart fella, but the club stood up for itself and played the hearing much smarter and won their appeal for Young and Cripps to be cleared. I wish we did the same for Hayes...see Cotchin.

Cheers Frank :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:23 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 105
I don't know how the AFL think they are going to stop players getting concussed given that the game is a contact sport. Yes they can come down hard on blatant hits like Stewart on Prestia, as they should. But what Crippa's case shows is a player can act within the rules and intent of the game and incidental contacts can occur which result in a player being concussed. I understand that the AFL are probably worried about future litigation by players who suffer long term effects from concussions but the players know that each time they go out to play there is a risk they could get injured. Do the AFL want the game to be contact free? It appears to be the only way they can achieve their goal.

The AFL say long term player health and safety is paramount! But if that's their concern, it doesn't have to be just head injuries. I wonder how many players have suffered debilitating musculoskeletal injuries post their careers, resulting from what happened on the field. They have had to live with the pain and discomfort of these for rest of their life. I haven't heard the AFL say much about that.

The media and opposition supporters have been quick to call foul on Crippa being found not guilty. Even though it has been agreed that he was contesting the ball and only had eyes for the ball. Look at the outcome they say with Ah Chee's concussion. I haven't heard any outrage from these sources about Matthew Kennedy's concussion and broken jaw. In his case it was just one of those unfortunate things that happens sometimes. Fair enough. But what are the AFL going to do about concussions suffered this way? Is Kennedy's concussion somehow not as important as Ah Chee's? God forbid but whose to say Kennedy's concussion proves to have a greater impact on him in later years.
If the AFL want to take the moral high ground on player H & S then they can't be selective. But if they change the rules to stop for what are now just "football acts" then I'm not sure what sort of game we will be left with. It will certainly not been the same game that we have grown up to love.


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
bluehammer wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
AFL has released a statement. No appeal.


Yes, but what do the AFL plan to do next?
The only court they could find willing to listen was Margaret Court.

She seems reasonable.


She wont agree with the AFL's stance on gay people, and likely go against the AFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:27 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7261
No worries Bondi all good
I’m thrilled he is playing on Saturday and we deserve a bit of luck good fortune


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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
Lonny Mac wrote:
I don't know how the AFL think they are going to stop players getting concussed given that the game is a contact sport. Yes they can come down hard on blatant hits like Stewart on Prestia, as they should. But what Crippa's case shows is a player can act within the rules and intent of the game and incidental contacts can occur which result in a player being concussed. I understand that the AFL are probably worried about future litigation by players who suffer long term effects from concussions but the players know that each time they go out to play there is a risk they could get injured. Do the AFL want the game to be contact free? It appears to be the only way they can achieve their goal.

The AFL say long term player health and safety is paramount! But if that's their concern, it doesn't have to be just head injuries. I wonder how many players have suffered debilitating musculoskeletal injuries post their careers, resulting from what happened on the field. They have had to live with the pain and discomfort of these for rest of their life. I haven't heard the AFL say much about that.

The media and opposition supporters have been quick to call foul on Crippa being found not guilty. Even though it has been agreed that he was contesting the ball and only had eyes for the ball. Look at the outcome they say with Ah Chee's concussion. I haven't heard any outrage from these sources about Matthew Kennedy's concussion and broken jaw. In his case it was just one of those unfortunate things that happens sometimes. Fair enough. But what are the AFL going to do about concussions suffered this way? Is Kennedy's concussion somehow not as important as Ah Chee's? God forbid but whose to say Kennedy's concussion proves to have a greater impact on him in later years.
If the AFL want to take the moral high ground on player H & S then they can't be selective. But if they change the rules to stop for what are now just "football acts" then I'm not sure what sort of game we will be left with. It will certainly not been the same game that we have grown up to love.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

No consistency from the AFL's judicial system...starting with with MRO & Michael Christian.

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
frank dardew wrote:
No worries Bondi all good
I’m thrilled he is playing on Saturday and we deserve a bit of luck good fortune



Geez, with a bit of luck and good fortune we could win the next 2 games before a well earned week's rest.

Go Blues.

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 Post subject: Re: Cripps FREE TO PLAY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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CK95 wrote:
I hear Shane Watson's going to appeal the decision
You don't hear as well as he does.

Those ears miss NOTHINGImage

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