TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)

Honestly, I know that TDK is a young ruckman, but you would have thought he was facing a combination of Max Gawn and Simon Madden in one player rather than Oscar M. have never seen someone so completely lost as he was today. And the hopeless Ch7 commentators just brush over it. We are on the back foot every centre bounce.

PercyJones wrote:

I'm a supporter. But I reckon that was his worst ever game for us. Absolutely dominated by a two iron with ears.

The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position :mad:

redback wrote:

we are very slow
not only in leg speed but mostly in mind and execution

Been a problem for 2 decades.

In 20 years, I can only think of 2 players that we have acquired that have played between the arcs and had "speed with the ball". Not just straight line speed but weaving speed. They are Judd and Cuningham.

Where do you start?

Obliterated in centre clearances (24-8), beaten in clearances (48-37). Actually won stoppage clearances 24-29!

Obliterated in inside 50s.

Unable to chain possession from defensive 50 - outside players butchering the ball.

Some impressive passages of play from Motlop.

Defence actually did ok - look at the goal conversion rate for Brisbane. 17 goals from 69 inside 50s for Brisbane.

bondiblue wrote:

keogh wrote:

I thought we were a good chance until Kennedy and Hewett were out

Our one wood has been are clearence work
Hewett has been sorely missed
Walsh was targeted today
He gave his all but didn’t cause significant damage
It was game over there and then
Brisbane are not a top side as the year has panned out
They are crap when the opposition have the ball. They give away too many easy goals in succession as what happened today
Problem was they controlled the game for most of it
Centre clearences were a smashing
That’s my knock on Cerra
He needed to step up
He didn’t
Cripps and Walsh did most of it
I thought Dow was extremely disappointing
Expected more
We have given him a contract in 2023
Maybe premature
I under estimated how much we rely on clearing work
We are too slow through the middle
Very one paced
I have advocated Saad having a different role further up the ground
To me it’s a necessity
I really like Durdin playing a mid field role in 2023

I like Carroll
Kemp
Honey as well
But we still have too many average players and deadwood
Speaking of which
I never rated Setterfield from the beginning as you know
He needs to go. Has been tried in different positions other than the inside mid he was meant to be
Time to go
If we want to succeed we must be ruthless with List Management
He clearly isn’t good enough
Jack Martin is the ultimate pea heart
Convince me otherwise
He simply doesn’t do enough
Has 2 years left. He needs to earn his spot. I get the fact the cupboard is bare with injuries it he didn’t do much in the magoos last week
Mc Governs stats look ok but he is a very disappointing player for what we gave up
That effort in the goal square when we had a small chance in the last was absu pathetic
Add Williams to that list of overpaid overrated players
Voss in his second year needs to make these guys earn their spot
I honestly believe Kemp should be in the team at the exp of The Gov

Still happy
There has been improvement but our short comings are becoming more obvious as the season draws to a close

Williamson
Mc Donald
Setterfield
Hayes
Newnes
Parks
Fogarty
All need to go
And the recruiting needs to be spot on
Have a look at what Collingwood has done this year
6 players from Rookie picks or mid season drafts plus sim excellent late picks in the draft

We still may make the eight and it’s great we have improved but clearly plenty of work needs to be done

Fair call Keogh
I don’t agree re Cerra and Gov.

Cerra was one of our best all game. Tried his guts out. Top 5 Blues players.
We need more than 3 mids Cripps Walsh Cerra

Backline was good for most of game considering how many inside 50,
So they had…must’ve been close to 60

Agree with it all

50:50 on cerra today. Like Doc too many clangers

MPH78 wrote:

The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position :mad:

TDK is very promising, however we have the weakest ruck division in the league by a mile, both in quality and quantity….

Which is really negligent when you consider our game plan is built around dominating centre clearances…

ColourMan wrote:

MPH78 wrote:

The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position :mad:

Division?

When the other bloke was in the team, we won the ruck and dominated the clearances.

The other bloke turns the skipper into the best player in the comp.

Williams along with Saad were meant to address speed, effectiveness off HB in support of mids, both on significant contracts one perennial injured and the other is Ok.

We've given away too many top draft picks (and too much money) for over rated, injury prone duds.

Author:	PercyJones [ Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Honestly, I know that TDK is a young ruckman, but you would have thought he was facing a combination of Max Gawn and Simon Madden in one player rather than Oscar M. have never seen someone so completely lost as he was today. And the hopeless Ch7 commentators just brush over it. We are on the back foot every centre bounce.

Author:	Heavs [ Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
PercyJones wrote: Honestly, I know that TDK is a young ruckman, but you would have thought he was facing a combination of Max Gawn and Simon Madden in one player rather than Oscar M. have never seen someone so completely lost as he was today. And the hopeless Ch7 commentators just brush over it. We are on the back foot every centre bounce. I'm a supporter. But I reckon that was his worst ever game for us. Absolutely dominated by a two iron with ears.

Author:	Crusader [ Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Heavs wrote: PercyJones wrote: Honestly, I know that TDK is a young ruckman, but you would have thought he was facing a combination of Max Gawn and Simon Madden in one player rather than Oscar M. have never seen someone so completely lost as he was today. And the hopeless Ch7 commentators just brush over it. We are on the back foot every centre bounce. I'm a supporter. But I reckon that was his worst ever game for us. Absolutely dominated by a two iron with ears. A new record?

Author:	ColourMan [ Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
MPH78 wrote: The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position TDK is very promising, however we have the weakest ruck division in the league by a mile, both in quality and quantity…. Which is really negligent when you consider our game plan is built around dominating centre clearances…

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
dadadadada wrote: redback wrote: we are very slow not only in leg speed but mostly in mind and execution Been a problem for 2 decades. In 20 years, I can only think of 2 players that we have acquired that have played between the arcs and had "speed with the ball". Not just straight line speed but weaving speed. They are Judd and Cuningham. Armfield says hi. Bloody loved that bloke!

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37592	Page 3 of 5

Author:	Wojee [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Effes wrote: Where do you start? Obliterated in centre clearances (24-8), beaten in clearances (48-37). Actually won stoppage clearances 24-29! Obliterated in inside 50s. Unable to chain possession from defensive 50 - outside players butchering the ball. Some impressive passages of play from Motlop. Defence actually did ok - look at the goal conversion rate for Brisbane. 17 goals from 69 inside 50s for Brisbane. The media/commentators crap on about clearances being Carlton's strength but they've been smashed in that area every week.

Author:	FarmerBlue [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Too much left to to few. We fall away badly

Author:	bluechampion [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Disappointing.

Author:	FarmerBlue [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
PercyJones wrote: Honestly, I know that TDK is a young ruckman, but you would have thought he was facing a combination of Max Gawn and Simon Madden in one player rather than Oscar M. have never seen someone so completely lost as he was today. And the hopeless Ch7 commentators just brush over it. We are on the back foot every centre bounce. IMO TDK is the classic fwd/ruck like Luke Jackson. Can come in when others are tired and have an influence with his athletisicm. Can go forwrad and take marks. He isn't a No.1 ruck that will carry through finals and big games. For that you need a physical player. Gawn, Nankervis, McEvoy, NivNat have been the last few Premiership rucks. GWS kept bringing Mumford back for this reason. Swans got It's one reason why Geelong have struggled recently in finals Pittonet could be one, Mirkov needs time. We need another big body ruck to help

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
london blue wrote: bondiblue wrote: keogh wrote: I thought we were a good chance until Kennedy and Hewett were out Our one wood has been are clearence work Hewett has been sorely missed Walsh was targeted today He gave his all but didn’t cause significant damage It was game over there and then Brisbane are not a top side as the year has panned out They are crap when the opposition have the ball. They give away too many easy goals in succession as what happened today Problem was they controlled the game for most of it Centre clearences were a smashing That’s my knock on Cerra He needed to step up He didn’t Cripps and Walsh did most of it I thought Dow was extremely disappointing Expected more We have given him a contract in 2023 Maybe premature I under estimated how much we rely on clearing work We are too slow through the middle Very one paced I have advocated Saad having a different role further up the ground To me it’s a necessity I really like Durdin playing a mid field role in 2023 I like Carroll Kemp Honey as well But we still have too many average players and deadwood Speaking of which I never rated Setterfield from the beginning as you know He needs to go. Has been tried in different positions other than the inside mid he was meant to be Time to go If we want to succeed we must be ruthless with List Management He clearly isn’t good enough Jack Martin is the ultimate pea heart Convince me otherwise He simply doesn’t do enough Has 2 years left. He needs to earn his spot. I get the fact the cupboard is bare with injuries it he didn’t do much in the magoos last week Mc Governs stats look ok but he is a very disappointing player for what we gave up That effort in the goal square when we had a small chance in the last was absu pathetic Add Williams to that list of overpaid overrated players Voss in his second year needs to make these guys earn their spot I honestly believe Kemp should be in the team at the exp of The Gov Still happy There has been improvement but our short comings are becoming more obvious as the season draws to a close Williamson Mc Donald Setterfield Hayes Newnes Parks Fogarty All need to go And the recruiting needs to be spot on Have a look at what Collingwood has done this year 6 players from Rookie picks or mid season drafts plus sim excellent late picks in the draft We still may make the eight and it’s great we have improved but clearly plenty of work needs to be done Fair call Keogh I don’t agree re Cerra and Gov. Cerra was one of our best all game. Tried his guts out. Top 5 Blues players. We need more than 3 mids Cripps Walsh Cerra Backline was good for most of game considering how many inside 50, So they had…must’ve been close to 60 Agree with it all 50:50 on cerra today. Like Doc too many clangers I think Ceerra gets the rough end of the stick from kane cornes and some carlton fans. If half of the team showed the same endeavour to tackle and chase hard like Cerra does, week in week out, (except vs StKilda when the MC rushed him in half baked), we would be in a better place. In the first quarter he was the only stand out mid we had. Cripps and Walshy were out of the picture. The next 3/4's Walshy was amazing, and Criipa tougher at the contest, but Cerra didnt drop off. We had 3 mids Crippa Walsh a& Cerra...and no one else to support them. Dow came to us with a pick before Cerra. Dow was embarassing. Ditto Fisher. Who else went in the middle other than SOS? Cerra was in our best 5 players imo. IUts easy to write hjim off, why don't you rate him as a mid working under a ruckman who had gave NO assistance.

Author:	bluehammer [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Agree I though Cerra was in our top handful. Worked really hard in first half when others didn't.

Author:	Crusader [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
ColourMan wrote: MPH78 wrote: The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position TDK is very promising, however we have the weakest ruck division in the league by a mile, both in quality and quantity…. Which is really negligent when you consider our game plan is built around dominating centre clearances… Division? When the other bloke was in the team, we won the ruck and dominated the clearances. The other bloke turns the skipper into the best player in the comp.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Crusader wrote: ColourMan wrote: MPH78 wrote: The last two weeks the performance of our key ruck has been utterly deplorable. Unfortunately for us it has been two different players. Our first 2 choices in the position TDK is very promising, however we have the weakest ruck division in the league by a mile, both in quality and quantity…. Which is really negligent when you consider our game plan is built around dominating centre clearances… Division? When the other bloke was in the team, we won the ruck and dominated the clearances. The other bloke turns the skipper into the best player in the comp. A lot of people, including me last year, dont recognise how many KPI's Pittonet dominated his position in the comp...hit outs to advantage, clearances, tackles.... we have sorely missed Pittonet to atleast break even in the ruck.

Author:	keogh [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Cerra is a decent footballer but no way is he worth a pick 6 and a future third rounder His inside work is average He is not express He is a third or fourth mid With Hewett and Kennedy out and Walsh pressured he didn’t take his game to the next level He may with time but it’s a huge risk paying out draft picks salary cap space and long term deals to get players with big reputations based on where they were picked in the draft as kids and “ they look ok” Look at Martin and Setterfield Same deal although Martin just takes salary cap space At least Cerra plays like he cares but if he doesn’t improve on his inside work thenthose 2 picks are too much to give away

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Author:	cortez [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
We've given away too many top draft picks (and too much money) for over rated, injury prone duds. Look at the young guys at Adelaide for instance, in a couple of years the Crows could be a serious threat, while we are saddled with million dollar crocks and a lack of young talent.

Author:	bmaurizio [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Adam Cerra is reasonable midfielder , durable, contributes regularly and without gaping flaws, I have no qualms having traded P6 for his services, another mid selected before him was an embarrassment on Sunday.

Author:	jpulice1969 [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
i wanted to keep p6 and p8 these picks are to valuable but we got cerra and saad bad recruiting decisions ok cerra is young but we lack pace why recruit him and saad is 28 3 yrs left then he slows down

Author:	bmaurizio [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
Williams along with Saad were meant to address speed, effectiveness off HB in support of mids, both on significant contracts one perennial injured and the other is Ok.

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
bmaurizio wrote: Williams along with Saad were meant to address speed, effectiveness off HB in support of mids, both on significant contracts one perennial injured and the other is Ok. Seriously?! Saad has been a great pick-up for us. In All-Australian form this year!

Author:	Crusader [ Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R21: Brisbane Vs Carlton (Post match discussion)
cortez wrote: We've given away too many top draft picks (and too much money) for over rated, injury prone duds. We’ve given away two picks for Saad & Cerra.