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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:37 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Brownlow is dominated by midfielders because they're under the umpires' noses and also because a 30 effective possession game in the guts is a much tougher ask than collecting 30 touches across half back or half forward.

IMO Cripps should never have been suspended by the MRO.
The AFL is rightly protecting the head wherever possible, but footy is still a contact sport and accidental high contact is going to happen. Cripps jumped higher than Ah Chee in a genuine attempt to win the ball. Yes he went hard and was probably trying to lift the team through example, but I don't think his intention was to knock Ah Chee into next week. I also think had Ah Chee's head not hit the turf he'd have been able to play on and it wouldn't have been cited.

What shits me is that the media replay it at half/quarter/one tenth the speed which completely warps perception of the incident, then you've got people, including the AFL's lawyer type guy at the tribunal, saying he had multiple options to avoid contact, when in reality he's not Neo in the @#$%&! Matrix.


TLDR; Cripps won and deserved it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Neo….

coming from the Greek word meaning…new
and or young…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:38 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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There you go.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9whwwTK6I

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mickstar wrote:
How is the Brownlow flawed ? it has been coming up with champion players for 100 years .


Shane Woewoedin says hi! :razz:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:37 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I’m not a huge wrap for Gavin “Give it back” Wanganeen.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:12 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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GWS wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
How is the Brownlow flawed ? it has been coming up with champion players for 100 years .


Shane Woewoedin says hi! :razz:

Brian Wilson says hi as well
Dipper wasn’t bad either


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:18 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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keogh wrote:
GWS wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
How is the Brownlow flawed ? it has been coming up with champion players for 100 years .


Shane Woewoedin says hi! :razz:

Brian Wilson says hi as well
Dipper wasn’t bad either


And Graeme Teasdale says high also . Anyhow , keep scraping the bottom of the barrel boys . Those blokes weren't champions but did have fantastic seasons and all where worthy winners for that year . Anyhow , keep trying' .

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
The only reason Smith didn’t get 3 was he is a HBF
Cripps had a very good game but how can a HBF not get 3 votes when he gets 37 possessions 13 inside 50s and 1019 metres gained
C’mon be objective
It’s not a fair award
I love Cripps and I’m happy for him to have the silverware for the effort and loyalty he puts in because of the way he plays but the Brownlow is such a bullshit award because it’s so biased towards mids
As I said it needs changing


Ok Keogh, explain how Saad was given three votes for BOG if a HBF never gets votes?


Stop being biased
Did you watch the Crows Blues game
Sometimes you watch a game
It’s hard to pick who is best on the ground
Not round 20
Smith played a blinder
So did Saad in that game
But to give Cripps 3 votes and Smith 1 is a no brainer
Obvious
Absolutely ridiculous
Which is why the Brownlow is ridiculous
Happy if they pay the umps extra to watch the game Monday or Tuesday then cast their votes
It would give the award more credibility


I assume that’s your way of admitting that you were wrong.

Don’t understand your rationale but I’ll reply
The Saad game against GWS he had around 25 possessions and he had around 500 m gained
Carlton won by around 40 points in a very uninspiring context
Saad was clearly the best and most influential player on the ground. His ball use that day was amazing.
No midfielder smashed it

Smith in round 20 had 37 possessions 13 inside 50s and 1019 metres gained
Clearly best on the ground in a winning side
The decide to give Cripps 3 and Smith 1 is so wrong
It’s not even debatable
That’s my beef with the Brownlow
It’s nearly impossible for an ump to say who was 1,2 and 3 best straight after a game
It needs changing to have some credibility


Last edited by keogh on Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mickstar wrote:
keogh wrote:
GWS wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
How is the Brownlow flawed ? it has been coming up with champion players for 100 years .


Shane Woewoedin says hi! :razz:

Brian Wilson says hi as well
Dipper wasn’t bad either


And Graeme Teasdale says high also . Anyhow , keep scraping the bottom of the barrel boys . Those blokes weren't champions but did have fantastic seasons and all where worthy winners for that year . Anyhow , keep trying' .


Woey was a part of a Shane Charter’s “Dr Ageless special training group” with James Hird and Luke Darcy around that time.

Woey won the Brownlow, Hird’s career ending foot injury miraculously repaired itself and Darcy remained a flog.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Hey Gee….

same “kinda Doc’ Rafa Nadal worked with too….!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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keogh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
The only reason Smith didn’t get 3 was he is a HBF
Cripps had a very good game but how can a HBF not get 3 votes when he gets 37 possessions 13 inside 50s and 1019 metres gained
C’mon be objective
It’s not a fair award
I love Cripps and I’m happy for him to have the silverware for the effort and loyalty he puts in because of the way he plays but the Brownlow is such a bullshit award because it’s so biased towards mids
As I said it needs changing


Ok Keogh, explain how Saad was given three votes for BOG if a HBF never gets votes?


Stop being biased
Did you watch the Crows Blues game
Sometimes you watch a game
It’s hard to pick who is best on the ground
Not round 20
Smith played a blinder
So did Saad in that game
But to give Cripps 3 votes and Smith 1 is a no brainer
Obvious
Absolutely ridiculous
Which is why the Brownlow is ridiculous
Happy if they pay the umps extra to watch the game Monday or Tuesday then cast their votes
It would give the award more credibility


I assume that’s your way of admitting that you were wrong.

Don’t understand your rationale but I’ll reply
The Saad game against GWS he had around 25 possessions and he had around 500 m gained
Carlton won by around 40 points in a very uninspiring context
Saad was clearly the best and most influential player on the ground. His ball use that day was amazing.
No midfielder smashed it

Smith in round 20 had 37 possessions 13 inside 50s and 1019 metres gained
Clearly best on the ground in a winning side
The decide to give Cripps 3 and Smith 1 is so wrong
It’s not even debatable
That’s my beef with the Brownlow
It’s nearly impossible for an ump to say who was 1,2 and 3 best straight after a game
It needs changing to have some credibility


So you agree that hbf’s can get votes when they play well and can win the Brownlow. It was your assertion that they never get vote when deserving and cannot win.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:50 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I bet if Charlie kicked 100+ goals next season he would win Charlie.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:51 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4785
GWS wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
keogh wrote:
GWS wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
How is the Brownlow flawed ? it has been coming up with champion players for 100 years .


Shane Woewoedin says hi! :razz:

Brian Wilson says hi as well
Dipper wasn’t bad either


And Graeme Teasdale says high also . Anyhow , keep scraping the bottom of the barrel boys . Those blokes weren't champions but did have fantastic seasons and all where worthy winners for that year . Anyhow , keep trying' .


Woey was a part of a Shane Charter’s “Dr Ageless special training group” with James Hird and Luke Darcy around that time.

Woey won the Brownlow, Hird’s career ending foot injury miraculously repaired itself and Darcy remained a flog.


Thats right Aggs and Darcy still is to this day .

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5593
Here’s the deal
A HBF can get 3 votes
Saad proved that in Round 19
Can a HBF win the award
Mathematical it is possible
But highly unlikely
That’s why Smith got one and a midfielder and a well known one get 3

If you look at the recent history of The Brownlow the last non midfielder to win was Wanganeen in 93 playing in a back pocket
And he should not have saluted with The Charles because Rowan Sawyers hated Diesel and gave didn’t give him 3 votes against Melbourne
Remember that or are you too young
Shit even Priddis won one
Go back further and players who won the award played in different positions
The game has changed and mids dominate and get the votes
The thing is you get a game like Smiths that has BOG written all over it and it’s a no brainer no argument he has to get the three votes
a mid gets 3 votes
I could argue that Jamie Elliotts game in round 23 was a 3 vote game
In a game when 21 goals were scored he kicked 2 when it really mattered as a small forward
That’s why it’s a bullshit award
So in my eyes the voting system has to change because the reality is only a handful of players ie mids can win it


I think you took me out of context and are clutching at straws
Hope that clears everything up


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Keogh the reason we're all rejoicing about Cripps winning the Brownlow is because we're still recovering from the giant kick in the balls the Pies gave us in Rd 23. It doesn't delete that game but purely from a supporter banter point of view, along with them losing a prelim by a point, we finally have right of reply & a bit of a spring in our step.

You might be a bit removed from their supporters over in WA, but here in the northern suburbs of Melbourne it's been a pretty rough flower month to say the least.

Some of your suggestions aren't bad, & might catch on one day. I don't mind the idea of getting the umps to submit their votes on the Monday.

But in the meantime, that moment he got the 3 against the filth is one that I'll cherish forever.

CRIPPS

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:56 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5593
CK95 wrote:
Keogh the reason we're all rejoicing about Cripps winning the Brownlow is because we're still recovering from the giant kick in the balls the Pies gave us in Rd 23. It doesn't delete that game but purely from a supporter banter point of view, along with them losing a prelim by a point, we finally have right of reply & a bit of a spring in our step.

You might be a bit removed from their supporters over in WA, but here in the northern suburbs of Melbourne it's been a pretty rough flower month to say the least.

Some of your suggestions aren't bad, & might catch on one day. I don't mind the idea of getting the umps to submit their votes on the Monday.

But in the meantime, that moment he got the 3 against the filth is one that I'll cherish forever.

CRIPPS

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

Living 3000 km away makes no difference
In fact Carlton has the highest supporter base of all the Victorian clubs in the AFL in WA
Whilst I still follow the club I am not as emotionally invested in it like I was even a few years ago
It can happen as you get older
A mate who lives in Perth who I have known since school days feels the same.

We haven’t won a lot over the last 30 years so I get the feeling people have about Cripps winning
He is a magnificent player
Thing is it’s a team game
Not about individuals in the general context
The last 4 weeks were incredibly disappointing to me because the guy who has carried us on his shoulders Since he was the teenager was doing it again
For me I was happy he won
He is also a good bloke well grounded . That’s what can happen when your brought up in Northampton

But happy is the extent of it
We were pretty shit as a team from round 11 onwards
So really all I care about is being a top 4 team
An individual winning a Brownlow imo doesn’t make a hell of a difference when it comes to developing into a real contender
Judging by Vossys and Cook’s body language they feel the same


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:07 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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keogh wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Keogh the reason we're all rejoicing about Cripps winning the Brownlow is because we're still recovering from the giant kick in the balls the Pies gave us in Rd 23. It doesn't delete that game but purely from a supporter banter point of view, along with them losing a prelim by a point, we finally have right of reply & a bit of a spring in our step.

You might be a bit removed from their supporters over in WA, but here in the northern suburbs of Melbourne it's been a pretty rough flower month to say the least.

Some of your suggestions aren't bad, & might catch on one day. I don't mind the idea of getting the umps to submit their votes on the Monday.

But in the meantime, that moment he got the 3 against the filth is one that I'll cherish forever.

CRIPPS

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

Living 3000 km away makes no difference
In fact Carlton has the highest supporter base of all the Victorian clubs in the AFL in WA
Whilst I still follow the club I am not as emotionally invested in it like I was even a few years ago
It can happen as you get older
A mate who lives in Perth who I have known since school days feels the same.

We haven’t won a lot over the last 30 years so I get the feeling people have about Cripps winning
He is a magnificent player
Thing is it’s a team game
Not about individuals in the general context
The last 4 weeks were incredibly disappointing to me because the guy who has carried us on his shoulders Since he was the teenager was doing it again
For me I was happy he won
He is also a good bloke well grounded . That’s what can happen when your brought up in Northampton

But happy is the extent of it
We were pretty shit as a team from round 11 onwards
So really all I care about is being a top 4 team
An individual winning a Brownlow imo doesn’t make a hell of a difference when it comes to developing into a real contender
Judging by Vossys and Cook’s body language they feel the same



I think you misread their body language as you do a lot of things!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:25 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5593
carntheblues wrote:
keogh wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Keogh the reason we're all rejoicing about Cripps winning the Brownlow is because we're still recovering from the giant kick in the balls the Pies gave us in Rd 23. It doesn't delete that game but purely from a supporter banter point of view, along with them losing a prelim by a point, we finally have right of reply & a bit of a spring in our step.

You might be a bit removed from their supporters over in WA, but here in the northern suburbs of Melbourne it's been a pretty rough flower month to say the least.

Some of your suggestions aren't bad, & might catch on one day. I don't mind the idea of getting the umps to submit their votes on the Monday.

But in the meantime, that moment he got the 3 against the filth is one that I'll cherish forever.

CRIPPS

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

Living 3000 km away makes no difference
In fact Carlton has the highest supporter base of all the Victorian clubs in the AFL in WA
Whilst I still follow the club I am not as emotionally invested in it like I was even a few years ago
It can happen as you get older
A mate who lives in Perth who I have known since school days feels the same.

We haven’t won a lot over the last 30 years so I get the feeling people have about Cripps winning
He is a magnificent player
Thing is it’s a team game
Not about individuals in the general context
The last 4 weeks were incredibly disappointing to me because the guy who has carried us on his shoulders Since he was the teenager was doing it again
For me I was happy he won
He is also a good bloke well grounded . That’s what can happen when your brought up in Northampton

But happy is the extent of it
We were pretty shit as a team from round 11 onwards
So really all I care about is being a top 4 team
An individual winning a Brownlow imo doesn’t make a hell of a difference when it comes to developing into a real contender
Judging by Vossys and Cook’s body language they feel the same



I think you misread their body language as you do a lot of things!

Cook and Voss arn’ t there to win Brownlows
We agree to disagree


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Does anyone else have the feeling this useful discussion is going to last all Summer long? :banghead:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:20 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Put simply, it's not the umpires' job to worry about who the better players are, although I understand how their 'neutrality' might be a selling point for their being given this additional role.

Secondly, in a game involving more than 40 players, I would think a system similar to the AFLCA is more appropriate, rather than selecting the traditional 'top 3'.

Speaking of the AFLCA, here's the final, and game by game, results.



Of course, the uneven draw adds to the Brownlow's lack of validity.

And hypothetically, imagine if you were the 4th best player on the field in every game of the season. Zero points for you!

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