Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:56 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:54 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 6296
I wait to judge coaches on their 3rd year... even MM when others on here didn't.

Sure we can make criticisms along the way but making the call on their first season is a bit unfair.

Voss is getting some extra heat in his first season due to the 8-2 start we had... and that will intensify as the season draws to a close.
Finishing 9th with a slow build up to a 12-10 record would normally be seen as a success for where we've come from... but missing the finals this year would be embarrassing for the club.

I get why people are pissed...

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman


Last edited by Hornet on Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:14 am 
Offline
John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Sydney
missnaut wrote:
It's waaaaaay too early to make this kind of call.

- It's his first season.

- We've got a relatively young and relatively inexperienced list.

- We've still got a few players on the list who won't be here in the next couple of years.

- We've had a crap run with injury - we've used the most or nearly the most players out of all clubs. It's meant we spent a lot of time plugging holes, and now trying to work out team balance with players returning.

- We've seen improvement with a number of players who were stagnant under Teague.

- Outside factors like the season fixture meaning a lot of teams had an easier run early on; the season being pretty even overall; not getting free hits at teams when they were smashed by COVID/injury/turmoil (been the opposite actually)


Entirely too sensible and rational. Waaaah! I want it all NOW! The last 20 years sucked and it's my right as a supporter to demand that the new guy make it perfect overnight! Everyone who disagrees is a deluded idiot or just doesn't care as much as real supporters... Like me!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:48 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 16788
12-7 after 19 games.
After the shit we've served up for 20 years, would anyone have knocked that back if you offered it in January?
I'll back in Voss, and the board.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:07 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 572
Blue Vain wrote:
12-7 after 19 games.
After the shit we've served up for 20 years, would anyone have knocked that back if you offered it in January?
I'll back in Voss, and the board.


Doing a great job. People forget how bad we were. It will take time but we have come a long way this season


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:08 am 
Offline
John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Sydney
Exactly, BV. Most would have considered 12 wins for the season a satisfactory first season of the Voss era. Did his 8-2 start mean top four became the new pass mark? It's time we showed resilience as supporters; all this talk of us losing the remaining games and missing finals is just seeking an easy way out. It's been a good season, get behind the team and dare to dream.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:17 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 4785
Wrapped that Voss is our Coach . Voss is a leader . A true leader . Exactly what we need . Same Brian Cook , fantastic .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:23 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 12583
Location: Melbourne
Paddycripps wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
This is not a knee jerk reaction

Because I've been sceptical since we got Voss

Don't get me wrong there were a number of things that I saw as positives in his appointment

But I also had numerous reservations

Chief among them was ... is he going to give us a revolutionary way of playing the game. Something that catches the competition off guard and can be the edge that takes us to a premiership

I'm not sure I see that blueprint in the way we play

And our win loss ratio has been consistently trending downwards since around mid season

I know and concede I have gone early

But my point is, if it turns out and I'm right and Voss is not to turn out a great coach then surely the blame ought to rest at the feet of the board and the president

Let this thread be a time capsule

I hope in 2 weeks or 2 years I'm made to look the fool . I really do

But I'm just putting it out there

If things go pear shaped let's put the boot less into Voss and more into the board that appointed him, because IIRC they didn't entirely undergo a thorough process ...


I'm thinking you will read this in the morning Paddy and feel rather embarrassed.

Regards Cazzesman


Not at all

IIRC the board felt we were underperforming due to the talent on the list

But we have been incapable of turning up 2 weeks in a row for 9 or 10 weeks now

Consistency of effort simply isn't there and thats a fair base size

We are now at risk of missing finals entirely

So tell me how good Voss is and what aspects of his game and coaching make him a good coach?

You were the one who was so confident we'd win this game. Shows how little you know.


I think you need to read my thoughts again Paddy. You are obviously tired and emotional. You continue to throw a mini tanti and the rest of us will watch closely how the Club responds. If it means your dog and/or cat don't kicked around, then by all means kick me, but I think you might need to take a walk around the block and take a few deep breaths to clear your head.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:44 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
This is not a knee jerk reaction

Because I've been sceptical since we got Voss

Don't get me wrong there were a number of things that I saw as positives in his appointment

But I also had numerous reservations

Chief among them was ... is he going to give us a revolutionary way of playing the game. Something that catches the competition off guard and can be the edge that takes us to a premiership

I'm not sure I see that blueprint in the way we play

And our win loss ratio has been consistently trending downwards since around mid season

I know and concede I have gone early

But my point is, if it turns out and I'm right and Voss is not to turn out a great coach then surely the blame ought to rest at the feet of the board and the president

Let this thread be a time capsule

I hope in 2 weeks or 2 years I'm made to look the fool . I really do

But I'm just putting it out there

If things go pear shaped let's put the boot less into Voss and more into the board that appointed him, because IIRC they didn't entirely undergo a thorough process ...


I read you comments re Voss in post match thread, and thought you didn't think too deep about the personnel that failed, nor do you seem to remember the rubbish we endured under Teague with the same list. Hewett didnt play yesterday.

Now I see you've created this thread and pointing the finger at Voss and ultimately the Board. A bit rich when we have achieved our goal to win more games than we lose....with 3 games to go.

You've gone one step forward, backing Voss, when we were winning beyond anyone's expectation, and 2 steps back, blaming everyone but the players who took the field and other reasons.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:45 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19981
Location: Bondi Beach
The injuries we have had to withstand this year, and still won games, the fact we are getting back players who haven't played with each other regularly to create consistency, and the fact that its a long season and some players have had to endure more than usual because of the holes they've had to fill due to injury...there's a lot to consider too, and Saints, Pies and Crows played their best footy, and therir hearts out in our 3 losses. No huge disgrace from a team coming from 13th on the ladder, and are still in the Top 4 conversation.

I believe we will make Finals, even if we lose the next 3 games. Now, go back and try and remember when we could even think that, and it goes back to 2011-2012...10 years ago. That says it all.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:53 am 
Offline
John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Sydney
I'm glad some posters have recognised the cumulative effect of a large number of long-term injuries to a team. Year after year we note that the teams at the top of the ladder are the ones with greatest continuity of personnel. I had to ruefully laugh the other week when the AFL website trumpeted Brisbane's "crisis" when they had to make 8 changes due to H/S protocol and concussion; that kind of one-week disruption doesn't mean shit. It's the twin burdens of available players having to play through pain and trying to get key players into rhythm after months on the sidelines that really make a difference.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:15 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 6296
Blue Vain wrote:
12-7 after 19 games.
After the shit we've served up for 20 years, would anyone have knocked that back if you offered it in January?
I'll back in Voss, and the board.

We're still serving up the same shit at times but as I said earlier, I'm backing the coach in his first season...

I would've taken 9th before round 1 but targets and expectations change within a season. We've put ourselves in a position to make the finals and that needs to be our new target... missing from here would be disastrous for the club.

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:21 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 6813
Location: Australia
Crusader wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Voss is the right guy - if not for what he’s shown, then for the team that he’s able to assemble around himself.

He’s not without criticism, but the lack of in-season progression falls on the playing group. Too many are on tram tracks. One trick ponies.

There’s a lot of learning to be done.

Dropping the one guy that is versatile enough to be a footballer in any position would be one of those criticisms.


So bringing him onto the ground in the first half when we lose a defender and a forward was a master stroke then?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:25 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7420
I was highly critical of Voss's appointment at the time but the fact is we are 12-7 and generally been much better than last year. So, until that changes, he gets a pretty fair benefit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:02 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7261
Yes stupid premise in this thread
Doesn’t derogate from the fact that it was out worst loss this year and in my view the worse lost in a number of years given stakes and personnel

We have improved this year in spades

Having said that still mentally weak

Have underdeveloped players for years and still paying for it

However now starting to do it properly all pretty terrible last night but Durdin Motlop Young TDK Cottrell
Plus Kemp Stocker Carroll are the future

Need to take a view on injured players and be aggressive in getting good young players in the draft

Injuries really have killed our momentum this year need to fix this up been happening for too long and too many long term injuries

Now we are getting players back the system isn’t telling as well as it was earlier
Disappointing end to season and whilst haven’t given up winning one of last 3 doesn’t augur well after last night


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:17 pm 
Offline
Laurie Kerr

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 130
our game plan needs to change and some players need to be-traded ,all we do when we go fwd is kick it to charlie / harry so it is up to coaching panel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:56 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 5145
Location: Bendigo
sinbagger wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Voss is the right guy - if not for what he’s shown, then for the team that he’s able to assemble around himself.

He’s not without criticism, but the lack of in-season progression falls on the playing group. Too many are on tram tracks. One trick ponies.

There’s a lot of learning to be done.

Dropping the one guy that is versatile enough to be a footballer in any position would be one of those criticisms.


So bringing him onto the ground in the first half when we lose a defender and a forward was a master stroke then?

Vinegar on your weeties this morning?

Jack as the sub was good fortune. But hey, even the Doggies faithful still can’t decide if Bevo is good, or just that lucky. And he’s been to the big dance twice since they’ve had him.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:24 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 413
It's hilarious how much we decry when the players have a soft and weak attitude and aren't mentally up to it, yet we lose our absolute collective minds after a bad loss and proceed to give up on the year with three games still left?!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:07 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 12583
Location: Melbourne
I haven't seen the game so my comments are just based on what I have read.

I think we have come along way in our performance levels in 2022 and we have shown we have some talented players in the group. The biggest hurdle to overcome now is obviously mental toughness and resilience.

Michael Voss, Aaron Hamill, Tim Clarke, Ashley Hansen and Luke Power never lacked for mental toughness and they will weed out those ones that don't have it or can't find it.

Here are some simple stats that show where our improvement have come from under these coaches in just 19 games.....

2021 after Rd 19 7 wins - 1457 pts for - 1586 pts against - 91.87%
2022 after Rd 19 12 wins - 1628 pts for - 1446 pts against - 112.59%

And that improvement has come on the back to one of the worst injury lists in the AFL.

Vossy and Co have only just begun to stamp his mark on this club.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:30 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1689
GreatEx wrote:
Exactly, BV. Most would have considered 12 wins for the season a satisfactory first season of the Voss era. Did his 8-2 start mean top four became the new pass mark? It's time we showed resilience as supporters; all this talk of us losing the remaining games and missing finals is just seeking an easy way out. It's been a good season, get behind the team and dare to dream.


Blues supporters have shown plenty of resilience over the last 20 years, so I fully understand some frustration with the performances over the last two months

However, it is too early to be questioning whether Voss is the right person to be our coach

Winning 12 games is a good result so far but we are still a work in progress

I am more concerned about getting ahead of ourselves and thinking it is bound to just happen. As has been the Carlton way for too many years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:52 pm 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20055
I had us missing with 11 wins, making it with 12 before the season started.

We have 12 with 3 games to go. Hardly a bad season, and we can still win that 13th game we need.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group