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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Seriously….

why the $#@% didn’t Eddie release his
book last week…!

$#@%…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:21 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Max King: 22yo 202cm 88kg
Harry McKay: 24yo 204cm 104kg

Only one big numerical discrepancy there. Will King ever be a unit or is he a natural beanpole like Daniher. I'll stick with Harry, as good as King is, and as much as I have lamented H's body language at moments. Didn't he score 4 goals in a quarter earlier this season when we were getting pumped? Something like that. I wouldn't say he doesn't lift when the team is down, but he does struggle to lift when he is down.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:24 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
@sidefx I agree with most of your post except this bit about McKay: "just lacks that presence in the forward line defenders are scarred of every time the ball comes in".

I think that's far from the truth, his size makes opponents panic and that's why they constantly infringe him - fortunately for them, umpires don't have the guts to pay the 7 or 8 frees he should probably get every week. But it is true that he would instil fear in the smalls as well as the talls if he put himself about more when ball hits ground. Ad others have noted, he is doing more work with chase down tackles so he is on the right path. I would absolutely not consider trading him. For whom?

I think that some defenders are fearful of him but not like they would be a Buddy, Tex or Fev who all have great football brains and are/were multi dimensional in their game. Opposition coaches would put two players on those guys in the hope of shutting them down vs they know if they put two on Harry he's cooked, a big difference especially for finals football.
And he has been pretty easy to shut down over the last couple of weeks, he was owned by De Koning in the Geelong game and has only kicked 3 goals in 2 weeks, pretty low output for a power forward.
Don't get me wrong, I like the potential of Harry but he hasn't really developed his game as much this season as you would've hoped.
But the concern is can he or does he want to.
If his only game plan is to attract frees and when he doesn't he gives up, that alone rings alarm bells.
Would you trust Harry 45m out to kick the winning goal or pull his socks up when we are down and like Crippa, take the game on and do some damage to turn it around?

As for trading, I wasn't thinking of a straight swap for a player to be honest, more the no #1 pick from North :lol:
But if we were to have a choice of players I really like Max King, when he puts on some more weight he will be damaging.


Those delivering the ball to the forwardline have been let off too easily in this discussion about Harry.

Did you see the supply to Harry in the Geelong game?
Was it the forward line manager who concocted the positioning of the forwards?
Why doesn't Harry lead up to meet the ball, like Fev did, like Buddy does, like Tex does, where his advantage is unsurmountable?

I don't think its all on Harry, but he doesn't attack everything with gusto, and does give up the fight at times too easily. ie he picks and chooses a bit much for me...and I think his kicking to goal have become the headline and focus when it should be other things too.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:25 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
tommi wrote:
Seriously….

why the $#@% didn’t Eddie release his
book last week…!

$#@%…!


kindest regards tommi



:lol: :lol: :lol: you're a scream tommi

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:30 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Sydney
Also on the King-H comparison...

King: 19 games, 46.36 scored
H: 16 games, 39.25 scored

Almost identical goals per game, but H noticeably more accurate. I don't get to see a lot of Saints games on NSW TV because who gives a shit honestly, but I have seen him miss a sitter or two. It's embarrassing when H shanks his set shots but his conversion rate is good and I reckon he practices enough to know which method works best for him. Maaaaayyybe I would encourage him to lean more towards the drop punt from beyond 40m though.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:35 am 
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Geoff Southby
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GreatEx wrote:
Max King: 22yo 202cm 88kg
Harry McKay: 24yo 204cm 104kg

Only one big numerical discrepancy there. Will King ever be a unit or is he a natural beanpole like Daniher. I'll stick with Harry, as good as King is, and as much as I have lamented H's body language at moments. Didn't he score 4 goals in a quarter earlier this season when we were getting pumped? Something like that. I wouldn't say he doesn't lift when the team is down, but he does struggle to lift when he is down.

This is the big issue and what separates the best from the rest.
The best just seem to find a way to go up a level, like Judd.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:45 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5506
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
@sidefx I agree with most of your post except this bit about McKay: "just lacks that presence in the forward line defenders are scarred of every time the ball comes in".

I think that's far from the truth, his size makes opponents panic and that's why they constantly infringe him - fortunately for them, umpires don't have the guts to pay the 7 or 8 frees he should probably get every week. But it is true that he would instil fear in the smalls as well as the talls if he put himself about more when ball hits ground. Ad others have noted, he is doing more work with chase down tackles so he is on the right path. I would absolutely not consider trading him. For whom?

I think that some defenders are fearful of him but not like they would be a Buddy, Tex or Fev who all have great football brains and are/were multi dimensional in their game. Opposition coaches would put two players on those guys in the hope of shutting them down vs they know if they put two on Harry he's cooked, a big difference especially for finals football.
And he has been pretty easy to shut down over the last couple of weeks, he was owned by De Koning in the Geelong game and has only kicked 3 goals in 2 weeks, pretty low output for a power forward.
Don't get me wrong, I like the potential of Harry but he hasn't really developed his game as much this season as you would've hoped.
But the concern is can he or does he want to.
If his only game plan is to attract frees and when he doesn't he gives up, that alone rings alarm bells.
Would you trust Harry 45m out to kick the winning goal or pull his socks up when we are down and like Crippa, take the game on and do some damage to turn it around?

As for trading, I wasn't thinking of a straight swap for a player to be honest, more the no #1 pick from North :lol:
But if we were to have a choice of players I really like Max King, when he puts on some more weight he will be damaging.


Those delivering the ball to the forwardline have been let off too easily in this discussion about Harry.

Did you see the supply to Harry in the Geelong game? No different to last year when he won the Coleman, in fact it was probably better.
Was it the forward line manager who concocted the positioning of the forwards? Surely the players can still take the game on themselves when needed to.
Why doesn't Harry lead up to meet the ball, like Fev did, like Buddy does, like Tex does, where his advantage is unsurmountable? Easy one, he can't kick a drop punt properly. Buddy and Fev are/were masters outside the F50, Harry's favourite position is 30m out in the right pocket so he can snap around his body.

I don't think its all on Harry, but he doesn't attack everything with gusto, and does give up the fight at times too easily. ie he picks and chooses a bit much for me...and I think his kicking to goal have become the headline and focus when it should be other things too.


I don't disagree it's not all on Harry, but with the 6-6-6 rule key forwards are actually worth something again and he just lacks that game changer attitude.
In the 3/4 of the game on the weekend I could only bare to watch, Tex showed us what we have been missing since Fev left. And I just can't see Harry being the one to step up on the big stage when required. I hope to be proven wrong, but then again I do like his trade value at the moment. :grin:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
@sidefx I agree with most of your post except this bit about McKay: "just lacks that presence in the forward line defenders are scarred of every time the ball comes in".

I think that's far from the truth, his size makes opponents panic and that's why they constantly infringe him - fortunately for them, umpires don't have the guts to pay the 7 or 8 frees he should probably get every week. But it is true that he would instil fear in the smalls as well as the talls if he put himself about more when ball hits ground. Ad others have noted, he is doing more work with chase down tackles so he is on the right path. I would absolutely not consider trading him. For whom?

I think that some defenders are fearful of him but not like they would be a Buddy, Tex or Fev who all have great football brains and are/were multi dimensional in their game. Opposition coaches would put two players on those guys in the hope of shutting them down vs they know if they put two on Harry he's cooked, a big difference especially for finals football.
And he has been pretty easy to shut down over the last couple of weeks, he was owned by De Koning in the Geelong game and has only kicked 3 goals in 2 weeks, pretty low output for a power forward.
Don't get me wrong, I like the potential of Harry but he hasn't really developed his game as much this season as you would've hoped.
But the concern is can he or does he want to.
If his only game plan is to attract frees and when he doesn't he gives up, that alone rings alarm bells.
Would you trust Harry 45m out to kick the winning goal or pull his socks up when we are down and like Crippa, take the game on and do some damage to turn it around?

As for trading, I wasn't thinking of a straight swap for a player to be honest, more the no #1 pick from North :lol:
But if we were to have a choice of players I really like Max King, when he puts on some more weight he will be damaging.


Those delivering the ball to the forwardline have been let off too easily in this discussion about Harry.

Did you see the supply to Harry in the Geelong game? No different to last year when he won the Coleman, in fact it was probably better.
Was it the forward line manager who concocted the positioning of the forwards? Surely the players can still take the game on themselves when needed to.
Why doesn't Harry lead up to meet the ball, like Fev did, like Buddy does, like Tex does, where his advantage is unsurmountable? Easy one, he can't kick a drop punt properly. Buddy and Fev are/were masters outside the F50, Harry's favourite position is 30m out in the right pocket so he can snap around his body.

I don't think its all on Harry, but he doesn't attack everything with gusto, and does give up the fight at times too easily. ie he picks and chooses a bit much for me...and I think his kicking to goal have become the headline and focus when it should be other things too.


I don't disagree it's not all on Harry, but with the 6-6-6 rule key forwards are actually worth something again and he just lacks that game changer attitude.
In the 3/4 of the game on the weekend I could only bare to watch, Tex showed us what we have been missing since Fev left. And I just can't see Harry being the one to step up on the big stage when required. I hope to be proven wrong, but then again I do like his trade value at the moment. :grin:


I know where you are coming from Sidey, but our forward entry since the Pies game has been...I guess Hot and cold, and hot and cold and....maybe it is injuries that have hampered our consistency, but Harry needs to develop that killer attitude...try and win everything his way without getting in the way of Charlie.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5506
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
@sidefx I agree with most of your post except this bit about McKay: "just lacks that presence in the forward line defenders are scarred of every time the ball comes in".

I think that's far from the truth, his size makes opponents panic and that's why they constantly infringe him - fortunately for them, umpires don't have the guts to pay the 7 or 8 frees he should probably get every week. But it is true that he would instil fear in the smalls as well as the talls if he put himself about more when ball hits ground. Ad others have noted, he is doing more work with chase down tackles so he is on the right path. I would absolutely not consider trading him. For whom?

I think that some defenders are fearful of him but not like they would be a Buddy, Tex or Fev who all have great football brains and are/were multi dimensional in their game. Opposition coaches would put two players on those guys in the hope of shutting them down vs they know if they put two on Harry he's cooked, a big difference especially for finals football.
And he has been pretty easy to shut down over the last couple of weeks, he was owned by De Koning in the Geelong game and has only kicked 3 goals in 2 weeks, pretty low output for a power forward.
Don't get me wrong, I like the potential of Harry but he hasn't really developed his game as much this season as you would've hoped.
But the concern is can he or does he want to.
If his only game plan is to attract frees and when he doesn't he gives up, that alone rings alarm bells.
Would you trust Harry 45m out to kick the winning goal or pull his socks up when we are down and like Crippa, take the game on and do some damage to turn it around?

As for trading, I wasn't thinking of a straight swap for a player to be honest, more the no #1 pick from North :lol:
But if we were to have a choice of players I really like Max King, when he puts on some more weight he will be damaging.


Those delivering the ball to the forwardline have been let off too easily in this discussion about Harry.

Did you see the supply to Harry in the Geelong game? No different to last year when he won the Coleman, in fact it was probably better.
Was it the forward line manager who concocted the positioning of the forwards? Surely the players can still take the game on themselves when needed to.
Why doesn't Harry lead up to meet the ball, like Fev did, like Buddy does, like Tex does, where his advantage is unsurmountable? Easy one, he can't kick a drop punt properly. Buddy and Fev are/were masters outside the F50, Harry's favourite position is 30m out in the right pocket so he can snap around his body.

I don't think its all on Harry, but he doesn't attack everything with gusto, and does give up the fight at times too easily. ie he picks and chooses a bit much for me...and I think his kicking to goal have become the headline and focus when it should be other things too.


I don't disagree it's not all on Harry, but with the 6-6-6 rule key forwards are actually worth something again and he just lacks that game changer attitude.
In the 3/4 of the game on the weekend I could only bare to watch, Tex showed us what we have been missing since Fev left. And I just can't see Harry being the one to step up on the big stage when required. I hope to be proven wrong, but then again I do like his trade value at the moment. :grin:


I know where you are coming from Sidey, but our forward entry since the Pies game has been...I guess Hot and cold, and hot and cold and....maybe it is injuries that have hampered our consistency, but Harry needs to develop that killer attitude...try and win everything his way without getting in the way of Charlie.

I totally agree, our midfield has been smashed since then too. But that is a whole other discussion.
A killer attitude would be the next step to making him feared for sure, I'm thinking along the lines of Dixon where defenders would be $h!tting they are about to get wiped out for a month if they back into the marking contest, unsociable like.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Apparently 23 missed tackles on Saturday night by us must missed tackles by a team since 2011 shows how terrible we were in terms of effort execution and not giving a crap

How a side who hasn’t played finals for 9 years can go into a match against the 15 th team with such little vigour and effort and mental strength is mind boggling
Disrespectful to the supporters


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:32 pm 
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John James

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 671
tommi wrote:
Seriously….

why the $#@% didn’t Eddie release his
book last week…!

$#@%…!


kindest regards tommi


true.

publisher probably a crows supporter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:42 pm 
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John James

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 671
“We’ve done a really good job, especially over the last four or five weeks, of focusing on process rather than outcomes," [Mackay] said.

“We haven’t really spoken about the ramifications at the end of the year.”

i dunno, maybe talk about finals then. start f’ing wanting it like you lot are always saying you want it. there was six players tops who wanted it from what i am hearing.

“My role is a lot more in-depth than just looking to the scoreboard, and my focuses stretch beyond just kicking goals.

“As long as I’m being a good teammate and contributing in my role, that’s the main thing for me and that’s what is celebrated in the forward line."

ok so why zero tackles, zero chase downs, zero blocks, zero flags flown last weekend.

i’m just venting, don’t really blame big H, as frustrating as he can be, it hey so was fev in the early days!

i think it really was one of those games where all but the mentally toughest players (you know who they are) we’re just not on the park. fact that it happened in VFL also only confirms it. it’s something our teams will take years to eradicate , this mental fragility, i suspect. but we’re definitely not getting massacred like last year i guess. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:13 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 3157
Location: The Wild West
tommi wrote:
Seriously….

why the $#@% didn’t Eddie release his
book last week…!

$#@%…!


kindest regards tommi


What a selfish prick!!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1248
It's been over 4 days now, I think you should get over it.


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