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R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

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daggs001

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:52 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1563

I reckon JSOS is a barometer of how we are going. When he has a stinker we seem to play poorly. He was pretty bad by foot all night, especially in the first half.
The other is O'Brien. Perhaps he bothers me more than other players and I'm unfair on him, but if ever a player was going to cost us a finals win, O'Brien is that player.
His turnovers that lead to goals last night were momentum killers.

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Blue Vain

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:57 am

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567

daggs001 wrote:

I reckon JSOS is a barometer of how we are going. When he has a stinker we seem to play poorly. He was pretty bad by foot all night, especially in the first half.

I understand players will have down games but he played selfish footy last night. Consider Durban's left foot sizzler to Jack last week that resulted in a goal and then try to comprehend why he would call for 2 handballs off Durdin that Jack needed to kick on his left as a result. One dribbled along the ground and the other prevented a probable goal.
I hope Voss blasts him and sets him straight on where he fits into the team. I love his effort and endeavour but he was very poor.
To top it off, he consistently flew against Charlie and Harry for no result other than bringing his opponent into the contest.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:01 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

rhino27 wrote:

CK95 wrote:

Couldn't buy a goal then Membrey kicks one over his head, just summed up our night really.

Those 2 late ones they got at the end of the 3rd were crucial. Just got pantsed by a team with injuries on the night. Uuuugh.

Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk

If we still awarded the Moran, I reckon membrey would have won it a record number of times.
Some may rate him buy I don't think he's much good except against us.

Swans got ripped off loosing Membrey to Saints for nothing.
As a 19-20yo he had the talent to play senior footy but was behind Franklin, Tippett and Goodes. That was understandable.

I was spewing Saints got him when we were crying out for class in the forwardline in 2014.

Move forward to 2022 and Membrey is till their best 2 KPF's, having when their goal kicking many times and is only 28yo.

He's a great player and we always have Plowman on him. Membrey is a crafty forward and imo Plowman hasn't evolved to match him.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:03 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

Dodo27 wrote:

Cerra had a Game he rather forget- didn't look fit and ready to resume playing.....

Gave up a Crucial Goal with a brain-fade backward pass that went no where!

He was in no mans land.

Really wasn't ready for the step up to seniors. That's on him and the coaching staff.

He didnt even look like he was trying. No zip, always rushed, couldn't find space and that's because he was slow of mind and legs.

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sinbagger

Post subject: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:11 am

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8309
Location: Australia

Let’s say we had Stocker, Weitering, Curnow, McGovern, Martin, whomever in the team.

Let’s say that gives us an extra 5 shots on goal.

We scored at 21% on the night so an extra five shots would have given us 1 goal 4. That’s 10 extra points, guess what, we still lose.

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The Normal One

Post subject: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:13 am

formerly King Kenny

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076

Not sure what is worse, 17pts and losing, or my hangover.

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FarmerBlue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:14 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495

sinbagger wrote:

You forgot to add how many scores that would stop. We'd win easily. Never underestimate confidence

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missnaut

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:15 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:02 pm
Posts: 11659
Location: Melbourne

bondiblue wrote:

Dodo27 wrote:

Cerra had a Game he rather forget- didn't look fit and ready to resume playing.....

Gave up a Crucial Goal with a brain-fade backward pass that went no where!

I seriously wondered if he had COVID again during his two week injury.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:17 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

Traveller86 wrote:

So we've lost to pies tigers and now saints.

Yeah I know. Injuries.

But the question needs to be asked - do we even deserve to play finals?

Yes...we have got this far with injuries. It has tested us and we have passed the test imo.

Tigers Pies & Saints played with full squads (Pies missing Grundy) vs our injury riddled line ups.

All 3 opponents would have struggled to beat us with Pittonet, Weitering, Marchbank/McGovern, Williams/ Boyd & Martin.

We were short by 15 to Tigers after getting within a goal at 19 min mark of the last.
We were short by 5 to Pies after Umpire missed the free to Walsh/ Jack missing snap
We were short by 15 to saints because we missed 6 shots at goal from 30m out

If you consider Tigers, Pies, and Saints at their best a good team, then we are a good team too and deserve to be in Finals contention.

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bluehammer

Post subject: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:23 am

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 19500
Location: 父父父父父父

St Kilda were better than us last night.

That's it really.

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Congratulations CK95

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daggs001

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:24 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1563

Blue Vain wrote:

daggs001 wrote:

I reckon JSOS is a barometer of how we are going. When he has a stinker we seem to play poorly. He was pretty bad by foot all night, especially in the first half.

Points well made BV.
On another note, do you think Newman has the endurance to play on O'Brien's wing? I don't see enough games live to know the answer.
Several defenders become available in the next month and that might free up Newman to play in a new role. We need to find a back up plan to O'Brien before finals.

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missnaut

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:25 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:02 pm
Posts: 11659
Location: Melbourne

WOW wrote:

I just don’t think we are that good

Had a soft draw with an ordinary percentage

Although we have improved, we are making up the numbers

May slip into finals but no threat this year

I disagree on having a soft draw.

We play Freo, Rich and Coll twice. They are all teams around us this year, and means we played Freo in WA.

We have Adl and GWS twice as well, meaning another two interstate trips and while they are lower on the ladder, they aren't easybeats.

I think it's about right.

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bluechampion

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:29 am

Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3295

@#$%&! this place really loses its shit when we lose a game.

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sinbagger

Post subject: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:36 am

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8309
Location: Australia

bluechampion wrote:

@#$%&! this place really loses its shit when we lose a game.

This is a walk in the park compared to how this place has been for the last 20 years, back to TBV.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:39 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

kingkerna wrote:

The stretcher really didn't help us.

Really felt any chance we had was gone then

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

Good point.

I was expecting saints to run out of legs and we pinch the game.

That break gave Saints chance to compose themselves.

We blew it.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:40 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

CK95 wrote:

We looked really short of a dangerous medium forward to me.

Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk

like Membrey?

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Blue Vain

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:41 am

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567

And whilst I'm at it, a couple of further comments on players. :grin:

Harry McKay. He has gone from being easily the most self focussed, selfish player in our team to absolutely buying into the coaches team mantra.
He is getting less goals but he has become a star team mate. Chases, tackles and works in tandem with Charlie to drag his opponent away when the time is right.
You cant win premierships without that absolute buy-in and he has far exceeded my expectations. He's a gun.

Patrick Cripps. Busting his guts every week but he had an opportunity last night to assist Jesse Motlop and he didn't follow it through. Motlop won the ball on the wing, ran away from his opponent and Cripps ran along side if Motlop wanted to give it off. Reverse that and put Jack Steele in the same situation. Without doubt Steele would have come across, shepherded the chasing player and put his team mate in space.
Imagine how powerful it would have been for Motlop to see the captain sacrifice his own opportunity so the youngster can make the play. It also would have sent a message to Motlop and the other youngsters that if it's good enough for the captain to sacrifice, it's good enough for everyone else.
Leadership.
That's why JSOS get's away with it and I hope Voss is following though on it. No need to highlight in in front of the group but get the captain into his office and show him the clip.
It's a small part of the process but it's what will drive the ultimate outcome. Full buy in with no exceptions.

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:03 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

Mickstar wrote:

Too much Hollywood . In our case it turned out to be Hollow wood .Ban 'em from watching TV or reading newspapers . Next weeks game against WC is gonna make us or break us . And another thing , if ya reckon we can go with one ruckman you are crazy . The most important player on our list at the moment is Pittonet ......................but nah , we can regroup and come back from this . Just get back to the blue collar stuff instead of the bigheaded fancy dan stuff .

Pitto muscling up against the bigger bodied types like Ryder and Marshall would have helped and keep TDK fresher for other duties. Yes their rucks were less mobile than TDK, and gave his all, but he tired, and I imagined Pitto in the ruck, and TDK up forward with Harry & Charlie on a dry night, spreading their backmen creating one on one contests for our talls ... would have given us another 15 opportunities at goal, for at least 15 behinds...drawn game. :wink:

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jezzarules

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:04 pm

Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm
Posts: 4588

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░L░I░N░K░I░N░B░I░O ░

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bondiblue

Post subject: Re: R16: Carlton v St Kilda (Post match discussion)

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:07 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach

Mickstar wrote:

TheDenominator wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

1) early in the first I think about BV's concern with Cerra on the wing and no defender brought in to replace Boyd and...and he was right. The Cerra move simply unsettled the wingers that had been working...and I think we were a small defender short all night!

2) @#$%&! me could we just kick straight!!!!!

3) @#$%&! me do we have to gift 4 goals a game with stupid decisions.

4) 15 minutes in I turned to my brother and said we are not playing like last week, more like last year

5) I @#$%&! hate St Kilda!

We had seriously the most annoying flog of a saint fan sitting near us last night and it just made the experience even more @#$%&! frustrating!
How the @#$%&! these flogs get into Carlton reserved seating areas frustrates me even more

Probably the best thing I heard was from a Carlton supporter who after one our many many points shouted
"Hey goal umpire, can you show us how many flags the saints have won...oh, only ONE! Thanks goal umpire"
Had never heard that one before so thanks to whoever shouted that out..

I thought we gifted them more than 4 goals by the way

I have :

- Plowman's shit dump kick to Membrey for their first. Kick it higher and longer for @#$%&! sake
- Young's shit centre for a turnover in the first - cant remember who he was trying to hit
- OBrien's fumble from a Newnes handball in the second. This one changed the momentum of the second qtr. We looked to be getting on top.
- Hewett's indiscriminate handball backwards into our defensive 50 straight to Butler who waltzed in for a goal.
- Cerra's turnover inside 50 for a Ryder goal also in the second
- OBrien's turnover which was very similar to Young's where he went to Kennedy instead of the safer Newman option late in the 3rd. Scores were level at this point
- Plowman's dropped chest mark and inability to recover and tackle very late in the 3rd

All very avoidable goals and when combined with the fumbles we had that either cost us other goals or opportunities to attack + the woeful set shot kicking and that flower saints fan it was just a shit night at the footy

Shit mate , you have nailed every cringeworthy moment of the game...............the beauty of the Saints solitary flag was it was against the Pies .

How about Denominator's memory...specific incidents. He had to be sober to do that. :clap:

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