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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:49 am 
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Robert Walls
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bluehammer wrote:
Fast start. Will get the crowd going.

I've always hated etihad/Marvel but I'm growing to love it


Yep, absolutely!

I have always hated Telstra Dome/Colonial Stadium too, but it seems to be our happy place this year. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I think it's a concern for Stocker that he didn't come in for Boyd.
Obviously there's something about his game or attitude that hasn't won him a spot.


I like Stocker. He has some nice traits and could be a LT player for us. But I can't recall seeing many great games by him yet and think he is still very much a young player finding his way and has a lot of improvement in him. Personally I think he's been grossly over hyped by fans given his output.


He played a very strong game in the vfl last week, strong pack marking, excellent positioning and always taking the game on with his passing out of defence.

Having said that I can understand why the match Commitee would prioritise having Cerra back instead of him. The game is won in the midfield.


It's not really a case of prioritising.
The MC have played a system based back 7 for a couple of years now. One goes out and another defender comes in. Stocker should be next in line however according to another poster they appear to be favouring a rotating wingman to take the role.
It's not a good sign for a 4th year, 22 year old defender if he can't get a game with our decimated defence.
Farmerblue posted that Newnes will assume the 7th defender role. That's a significant error IMHO.
He has sooked it up previously when played in defence and his defensive craft is poor. He has filled the role on a couple of occasions when we've lost a defender mid-game but not very well IMHO.

Cerra should have come in for Honey or Motlop and Stocker should have come in for Boyd IMHO. Our structure through all lines has been good this year to date. Why would they tinker with it now?
The only other possible answer would be for JSOS to play as the 7th defender (take the resting ruck *Marshall and perhaps follow him into the ruck). That would be a bit radical but could they try it? Kemp was too easily moved off the ball by the big guys last week. At least SOS can stand his ground.
I think Fisher's good form with more midfield time last week has given them some different options but perhaps some selection headaches as well.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Mil Hanna wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Fast start. Will get the crowd going.

I've always hated etihad/Marvel but I'm growing to love it


Yep, absolutely!

I have always hated Telstra Dome/Colonial Stadium too, but it seems to be our happy place this year. :thumbsup:

Don't mind Docklands Stadium myself

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I think it's a concern for Stocker that he didn't come in for Boyd.
Obviously there's something about his game or attitude that hasn't won him a spot.


I like Stocker. He has some nice traits and could be a LT player for us. But I can't recall seeing many great games by him yet and think he is still very much a young player finding his way and has a lot of improvement in him. Personally I think he's been grossly over hyped by fans given his output.


He played a very strong game in the vfl last week, strong pack marking, excellent positioning and always taking the game on with his passing out of defence.

Having said that I can understand why the match Commitee would prioritise having Cerra back instead of him. The game is won in the midfield.


It's not really a case of prioritising.
The MC have played a system based back 7 for a couple of years now. One goes out and another defender comes in. Stocker should be next in line however according to another poster they appear to be favouring a rotating wingman to take the role.
It's not a good sign for a 4th year, 22 year old defender if he can't get a game with our decimated defence.
Farmerblue posted that Newnes will assume the 7th defender role. That's a significant error IMHO.
He has sooked it up previously when played in defence and his defensive craft is poor. He has filled the role on a couple of occasions when we've lost a defender mid-game but not very well IMHO.

Cerra should have come in for Honey or Motlop and Stocker should have come in for Boyd IMHO. Our structure through all lines has been good this year to date. Why would they tinker with it now?
The only other possible answer would be for JSOS to play as the 7th defender (take the resting ruck *Marshall and perhaps follow him into the ruck). That would be a bit radical but could they try it? Kemp was too easily moved off the ball by the big guys last week. At least SOS can stand his ground.
I think Fisher's good form with more midfield time last week has given them some different options but perhaps some selection headaches as well.


No way SOS plays back. Radical changes have not been the go and for good reason. Deal with the 1 weakness, don't create others.

I don't mind Newnes but I get your point.

I think our wings have been good of late though, some more broadly some wins in that regard


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Here is a stat for youse all

St K last won a game in May !!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I think it's a concern for Stocker that he didn't come in for Boyd.
Obviously there's something about his game or attitude that hasn't won him a spot.


I like Stocker. He has some nice traits and could be a LT player for us. But I can't recall seeing many great games by him yet and think he is still very much a young player finding his way and has a lot of improvement in him. Personally I think he's been grossly over hyped by fans given his output.


He played a very strong game in the vfl last week, strong pack marking, excellent positioning and always taking the game on with his passing out of defence.

Having said that I can understand why the match Commitee would prioritise having Cerra back instead of him. The game is won in the midfield.


It's not really a case of prioritising.
The MC have played a system based back 7 for a couple of years now. One goes out and another defender comes in. Stocker should be next in line however according to another poster they appear to be favouring a rotating wingman to take the role.
It's not a good sign for a 4th year, 22 year old defender if he can't get a game with our decimated defence.
Farmerblue posted that Newnes will assume the 7th defender role. That's a significant error IMHO.
He has sooked it up previously when played in defence and his defensive craft is poor. He has filled the role on a couple of occasions when we've lost a defender mid-game but not very well IMHO.

Cerra should have come in for Honey or Motlop and Stocker should have come in for Boyd IMHO. Our structure through all lines has been good this year to date. Why would they tinker with it now?
The only other possible answer would be for JSOS to play as the 7th defender (take the resting ruck *Marshall and perhaps follow him into the ruck). That would be a bit radical but could they try it? Kemp was too easily moved off the ball by the big guys last week. At least SOS can stand his ground.
I think Fisher's good form with more midfield time last week has given them some different options but perhaps some selection headaches as well.


No way SOS plays back. Radical changes have not been the go and for good reason. Deal with the 1 weakness, don't create others.


That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
The tactic of St Kilda's spare defender will be interesting. We'll continue to push Walsh up to the stoppages and in all likelihood, the Saints will want Hill to be their spare defender.
How the MC counter that will be interesting. Could Honey play a stopping role? He has the pace to go with Hill. I doubt he has the endurance and he may not have the game sense to see it through.
Another option is they send a half forward to Walsh and man him up. (Seb Ross?)

Then it's a matter of who has more influence. Their spare defender or ours.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:08 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Posts: 4435
I agree he should have come in, for the like to like reason.

But equally I think our wings have been really good in recent times.
I am not as watchful as some so cannot say why that is the case. But I am sure glad to see it as a month ago I was of the view our wings were all a major weakness. But gee last week Cotters kicked 2 and LOB kicked 2. And Newnes was pretty good too in his 200th.
Maybe part of the plan is indeed for a wing to get back. It ight all be part of the crazy plan to free up Walsh. Who knows?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
The tactic of St Kilda's spare defender will be interesting. We'll continue to push Walsh up to the stoppages and in all likelihood, the Saints will want Hill to be their spare defender.
How the MC counter that will be interesting. Could Honey play a stopping role? He has the pace to go with Hill. I doubt he has the endurance and he may not have the game sense to see it through.
Another option is they send a half forward to Walsh and man him up. (Seb Ross?)

Then it's a matter of who has more influence. Their spare defender or ours.


Yes this was one of the strengths last week, we freed up space up fwd.
Right now Walsh's impact is enormous. His ability to run back and help the last line is incredible, but equally he provides the dangerous run through the middle of the ground. Seeing him live last week was a real eye opener. St K will be mad to not try and stop him somehow.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:20 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8172
Location: Australia
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I think it's a concern for Stocker that he didn't come in for Boyd.
Obviously there's something about his game or attitude that hasn't won him a spot.


I like Stocker. He has some nice traits and could be a LT player for us. But I can't recall seeing many great games by him yet and think he is still very much a young player finding his way and has a lot of improvement in him. Personally I think he's been grossly over hyped by fans given his output.


He played a very strong game in the vfl last week, strong pack marking, excellent positioning and always taking the game on with his passing out of defence.

Having said that I can understand why the match Commitee would prioritise having Cerra back instead of him. The game is won in the midfield.


It's not really a case of prioritising.
The MC have played a system based back 7 for a couple of years now. One goes out and another defender comes in. Stocker should be next in line however according to another poster they appear to be favouring a rotating wingman to take the role.
It's not a good sign for a 4th year, 22 year old defender if he can't get a game with our decimated defence.
Farmerblue posted that Newnes will assume the 7th defender role. That's a significant error IMHO.
He has sooked it up previously when played in defence and his defensive craft is poor. He has filled the role on a couple of occasions when we've lost a defender mid-game but not very well IMHO.

Cerra should have come in for Honey or Motlop and Stocker should have come in for Boyd IMHO. Our structure through all lines has been good this year to date. Why would they tinker with it now?
The only other possible answer would be for JSOS to play as the 7th defender (take the resting ruck *Marshall and perhaps follow him into the ruck). That would be a bit radical but could they try it? Kemp was too easily moved off the ball by the big guys last week. At least SOS can stand his ground.
I think Fisher's good form with more midfield time last week has given them some different options but perhaps some selection headaches as well.


No way SOS plays back. Radical changes have not been the go and for good reason. Deal with the 1 weakness, don't create others.

I don't mind Newnes but I get your point.

I think our wings have been good of late though, some more broadly some wins in that regard


We’re playing team defence and sticking to our systems, so it’s more important to get quality into the midfield than pick next man up defender, because Newness can do the job and deserves to not be dropped.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Yeah I don't want to drop Newnes.
Good problem to have (that is, the injuries are to the talls more than the mids/flankers and as such there is comp for spots in that part of the list)

FWIW I like Stocker. I really do.
But I have seen a fair bit of the VFL this year and I think Boyd > Stocker in the small defender role.
Boyd is a naturally aggressive and gifted running player, it is in his DNA. Stocker can do it but has a natural tendency IMO to run to the side a bit more. Boyd I think is just more directly attacking in his willingness to run. Stocker is very good at sweeping up behind the play though.
I suspect also Stocker sometimes tries the low % low and sharp kicks and maybe Voss was tired of seeing the turnovers by foot.
he has clearly been told to go back to the VFL and work on some things.
Stocker might have to accept he is in a similar boat as Dow in the sense that he would normally be in the team but there m ight be guys ahead of him.
Sign of a strong list.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Anyone else anticipating a 10 goal plus win to us tonight?
Go Blues!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yes…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up

I really like the idea that after our best win we only make the one enforced change


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:21 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up

I really like the idea that after our best win we only make the one enforced change

We really have only 2 obvious deficiencies.

KPB and Weitering will fix that next week.

1st ruck and Pittonet will fix that in a couple of weeks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up


And so to get him fitter and capable of playing midfield, they're playing him as a defender in the VFL?
Yeah, nah.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up

I really like the idea that after our best win we only make the one enforced change

We really have only 2 obvious deficiencies.

KPB and Weitering will fix that next week.

1st ruck and Pittonet will fix that in a couple of weeks.


I wouldn't call it a deficiency but it will be good when one of our small forwards takes the next step to become a true star. Right now they are playing their role but none are game breakers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up


And so to get him fitter and capable of playing midfield, they're playing him as a defender in the VFL?
Yeah, nah.


How many years has he been on the list?
I can only recall once he played in the middle and that was IIRC a pre season game.

If they want to get his tank up stick him in the middle in the VFL.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Paddycripps wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up

I really like the idea that after our best win we only make the one enforced change

We really have only 2 obvious deficiencies.

KPB and Weitering will fix that next week.

1st ruck and Pittonet will fix that in a couple of weeks.


I wouldn't call it a deficiency but it will be good when one of our small forwards takes the next step to become a true star. Right now they are playing their role but none are game breakers.


Agree. Motlop & Durdin IMO have real talent but are young. Owies & Fogarty are more workers


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
That's the point. Stocker replaces Boyd. Problem solved. Not bringing in a defender creates issues for other lines that are functioning well.


They want Stocker to get fitter and play in the middle. With Boyd emerging, Williams to come back and the form of Docherty Newman & Saad they can now do this. Stocker was only used as a defender to build himself up


And so to get him fitter and capable of playing midfield, they're playing him as a defender in the VFL?
Yeah, nah.


How many years has he been on the list?
I can only recall once he played in the middle and that was IIRC a pre season game.

If they want to get his tank up stick him in the middle in the VFL.


and that's what are starting to do. I what I really like this year is players like Stocker Setterfield Dow are very clear on what they need to do and now have to earn their spots. It's what good sides do


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