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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:
Crusader wrote:
The review doesn’t happen if ‘Elite Kick’ hits up the wiiiiide open team mate (Boyd?) 40m out.

His whole attitude towards footy is a cancer. He kicked that goal in the 2nd quarter and it was like he’d won Wimbledon. Every time he’s involved in the contest, win or lose, there’s a finality to his body language.


Glad you brought that up. LOB totally ignored Boyd. Backed himself from outside 50 with a wet footy. Did not do the team thing

He didn’t ignore him. He assessed the option and took on the responsibility to kick it deep himself. It was a reasonable call to make in the circumstances. Boyd was clear, but on a worse angle and not that much closer to goal.

If he’d passed it, LOB probably would have been called an idiot for overusing the ball on a wet night and/or a fanny for not taking the kick….
:roll:


Sorry Abs I was at the G and had a bird’s eye view:

Boyd made great positioning for the pass. LOB took an eternity ignored the pass and overestimated his kicking ability. Boyd closer to goal a good kick and on the correct side for a right footer


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:01 pm 
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Ken Hands

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This ^^


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The injured players coming back are going to need a few weeks to hit top form don't forget.

I'd love us to make finals & win a final but anything more is going to be a big ask.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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aboynamedsue wrote:
If we can hang in there over the next month (ie. until Weitering & Pittonet come back) and win 2 of the 4 I’ll be quite bullish about making the finals. Almost as important will be to get through the period without anymore significant injuries.

Unfortunately, history tends to show that it’s very very hard to play catch up with your injuries - but I feel like if we can just have a respite of a few weeks from new injuries we might come home with a wet sail.
:thumbsup:
There’s a couple of big “ifs” in this post. I realise that…


Question to you Sue , and Bondi and Vain . You guys seem to pickup on all the little nuances of the game .

As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out . I think we need a more man on man approach at stoppages myself rather than being sucked into the contest . What ya reckon Guru's .

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm no guru but I disagree on our opponents giving up front spot, I thought in the first half last night Tigers were relentless in their quest for front position, knowing that hacked kicks in wet weather drop short. They did, and their gameplan of running in waves demanded that they hold front position.

The game they play is pretty simple, turn the ball over as early as possible by holding front position, typically at or ahead of centre, then take front position after the turnover. I'm not willing to sit through a replay of that first half again to confirm what i saw last night but I'm pretty certain that was their go.

There were times when player number 3 got the ball, ie 2 opponents going for it, slippery handling or bounce clean bowled them, and the next front position got hold of it.

It was a lottery at times but they played the percentages and won because of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:35 am 
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Geoff Southby
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bluehammer wrote:
I'm no guru but I disagree on our opponents giving up front spot, I thought in the first half last night Tigers were relentless in their quest for front position, knowing that hacked kicks in wet weather drop short. They did, and their gameplan of running in waves demanded that they hold front position.

The game they play is pretty simple, turn the ball over as early as possible by holding front position, typically at or ahead of centre, then take front position after the turnover. I'm not willing to sit through a replay of that first half again to confirm what i saw last night but I'm pretty certain that was their go.

There were times when player number 3 got the ball, ie 2 opponents going for it, slippery handling or bounce clean bowled them, and the next front position got hold of it.

It was a lottery at times but they played the percentages and won because of it.


Your opinion is most welcome Hammer . To be a bit more specific i was meaning at the centre bounces . I felt the Tiger midfielders were getting behind our blokes and giving them a sly little nudge under the ruck men and waiting outside for the spill . If our midfielders have one fault it is there lack of pace and i feel the Tiger midfield exploited that on the outside of the contest . I might be wrong but i swear on more than one occasion the Tiger's gave our blokes a shove inwards and then charged to the outside for the receive . Very subtle i thought but Dimma is a cagey character who is right up on all that stuff . But no , i around the ground the Tigers fought tooth and nail for front spot .

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:29 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Ah I get ya. Reckon you're right, mick. Be in The position to tackle when hands can't be as clean.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Rod Waddell wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:
Crusader wrote:
The review doesn’t happen if ‘Elite Kick’ hits up the wiiiiide open team mate (Boyd?) 40m out.

His whole attitude towards footy is a cancer. He kicked that goal in the 2nd quarter and it was like he’d won Wimbledon. Every time he’s involved in the contest, win or lose, there’s a finality to his body language.


Glad you brought that up. LOB totally ignored Boyd. Backed himself from outside 50 with a wet footy. Did not do the team thing

He didn’t ignore him. He assessed the option and took on the responsibility to kick it deep himself. It was a reasonable call to make in the circumstances. Boyd was clear, but on a worse angle and not that much closer to goal.

If he’d passed it, LOB probably would have been called an idiot for overusing the ball on a wet night and/or a fanny for not taking the kick….
:roll:


Sorry Abs I was at the G and had a bird’s eye view:

Boyd made great positioning for the pass. LOB took an eternity ignored the pass and overestimated his kicking ability. Boyd closer to goal a good kick and on the correct side for a right footer


LOB should have kicked the goal...so much for 'elite' kick. He's hit and miss. Looks great when he connects properly, and doesn't hook it...some of his passes are unbelievable. Note the word "some". He's not elite imo.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Mickstar wrote:
As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out .


There was a bit of that Mick but unfortunately our flogging at the stoppages was mostly due to Richmond being tougher, smarter and better structured. Prestia killed our mids with 13 clearances (our best was Kennedy with 5) and TDK was given a lesson in ruck work. The stats will tell you the hitouts were reasonably close but have a look at the impact when TDK hit the ball compared to Nankervis. The majority of Nankervis' centre bounce taps were hit to 90 degrees where Prestia protected the space beautifully and won the ball or the Tigers vacated the space and ran onto the loose ball.
It was always going to happen at some stage. Opposition coaches were going to analyse the weaknesses of our mids and realise we are OK in close but when the opposition ruck hits the ball long or wide like Thursday night, we're exposed by pace. We also had 2 or 3 attacking the inside ball around the ground while Richmond had one player get in and knock it out whilst they had others waiting on the outside.
Our mids have been given a lesson 2 weeks in a row and they cant just keep playing on their own terms when the opposition have the ascendancy.

Credit to Richmond though, they were smarter and better prepared. They played wet weather footy while we stupidly tried to play as we have previously in dry conditions.
They often pushed their near side winger into the stoppages to man up Cripps or Walsh which released one of their mids and it hurt us significantly. Our mids talked early in the season about "connection". Well that connection is not there at the moment. TDK is often hitting the ball straight ahead when he gets his hand to it but our mids are rarely there to receive.
We're desperate for Pittonet to return as he provides inside grunt and he helps keep the ball in contest.

While I'd rather our mids were still dominating, I like to see our players challenged as well. It's better it happen now than September. (If we're lucky enough to get there).
Let's see what they can come up with. I'd like to see a tag when required. I posted in another thread a few weeks ago that Prestia loves playing us so we should have been prepared. I would have assigned Hewitt to him with a hard tag and shut him down. Over to the mids and Tim Clarke to see what they come up with.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:38 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out .


There was a bit of that Mick but unfortunately our flogging at the stoppages was mostly due to Richmond being tougher, smarter and better structured. Prestia killed our mids with 13 clearances (our best was Kennedy with 5) and TDK was given a lesson in ruck work. The stats will tell you the hitouts were reasonably close but have a look at the impact when TDK hit the ball compared to Nankervis. The majority of Nankervis' centre bounce taps were hit to 90 degrees where Prestia protected the space beautifully and won the ball or the Tigers vacated the space and ran onto the loose ball.
It was always going to happen at some stage. Opposition coaches were going to analyse the weaknesses of our mids and realise we are OK in close but when the opposition ruck hits the ball long or wide like Thursday night, we're exposed by pace. We also had 2 or 3 attacking the inside ball around the ground while Richmond had one player get in and knock it out whilst they had others waiting on the outside.
Our mids have been given a lesson 2 weeks in a row and they cant just keep playing on their own terms when the opposition have the ascendancy.

Credit to Richmond though, they were smarter and better prepared. They played wet weather footy while we stupidly tried to play as we have previously in dry conditions.
They often pushed their near side winger into the stoppages to man up Cripps or Walsh which released one of their mids and it hurt us significantly. Our mids talked early in the season about "connection". Well that connection is not there at the moment. TDK is often hitting the ball straight ahead when he gets his hand to it but our mids are rarely there to receive.
We're desperate for Pittonet to return as he provides inside grunt and he helps keep the ball in contest.

While I'd rather our mids were still dominating, I like to see our players challenged as well. It's better it happen now than September. (If we're lucky enough to get there).
Let's see what they can come up with. I'd like to see a tag when required. I posted in another thread a few weeks ago that Prestia loves playing us so we should have been prepared. I would have assigned Hewitt to him with a hard tag and shut him down. Over to the mids and Tim Clarke to see what they come up with.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:40 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Bluetears wrote:
Umpires are untouchables. The Afl stand by them no matter what and they know it. Tonight Afl stated that touched goal was the correct decision. The umpires need be held more accountable for their performance with such big money involved in outcomes these days. The umpires seem to be thinking of themselves like conductors of an orchestra directing the result of a game rather than officiating it to the given rules equally to both teams. Is a disgrace and a blight on the game at the moment in my opinion.
Also what's going on in our fitness department???? Never seen the likes of it before


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out .


There was a bit of that Mick but unfortunately our flogging at the stoppages was mostly due to Richmond being tougher, smarter and better structured. Prestia killed our mids with 13 clearances (our best was Kennedy with 5) and TDK was given a lesson in ruck work. The stats will tell you the hitouts were reasonably close but have a look at the impact when TDK hit the ball compared to Nankervis. The majority of Nankervis' centre bounce taps were hit to 90 degrees where Prestia protected the space beautifully and won the ball or the Tigers vacated the space and ran onto the loose ball.
It was always going to happen at some stage. Opposition coaches were going to analyse the weaknesses of our mids and realise we are OK in close but when the opposition ruck hits the ball long or wide like Thursday night, we're exposed by pace. We also had 2 or 3 attacking the inside ball around the ground while Richmond had one player get in and knock it out whilst they had others waiting on the outside.
Our mids have been given a lesson 2 weeks in a row and they cant just keep playing on their own terms when the opposition have the ascendancy.

Credit to Richmond though, they were smarter and better prepared. They played wet weather footy while we stupidly tried to play as we have previously in dry conditions.
They often pushed their near side winger into the stoppages to man up Cripps or Walsh which released one of their mids and it hurt us significantly. Our mids talked early in the season about "connection". Well that connection is not there at the moment. TDK is often hitting the ball straight ahead when he gets his hand to it but our mids are rarely there to receive.
We're desperate for Pittonet to return as he provides inside grunt and he helps keep the ball in contest.

While I'd rather our mids were still dominating, I like to see our players challenged as well. It's better it happen now than September. (If we're lucky enough to get there).
Let's see what they can come up with. I'd like to see a tag when required. I posted in another thread a few weeks ago that Prestia loves playing us so we should have been prepared. I would have assigned Hewitt to him with a hard tag and shut him down. Over to the mids and Tim Clarke to see what they come up with.


Great analysis BV: Food for thought.

Our boys did look great from the outset imo, winning the ball, and committing to connecting with each other by hand. Prestia had a bit of a purple patch after a while, and kept the ball going their way. Not sure if coached adjusted to Prestia or Prestia fell away. Problem was it took them too long to get their heads around the fact the ball was like a bar of soap whilst the rain was relentless in the early part of the game.

Something must have gone right for us, even against the tide of unfavourable umpiring, after the 16 minute mark in the 2nd after we (along with the umpires) gave the Tigers a 35 point lead, when it was 6.3 vs 0.4, we outscored the Tigers 5.11 vs 9.8.

The point is, everyone adjusted and improved after the 16 minute mark of the 2nd. Not sure if Voss was outcoached or he was not listened to by his charges.

I think we did an incredible to stay in the game, and could have pinched it with all those key players out injured. I was more disappointed in our forwardline, other than that purple patch Harry had in the last.

Lets hope we learn about our weaknesses for the Frep game. Its all fixable.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out .


There was a bit of that Mick but unfortunately our flogging at the stoppages was mostly due to Richmond being tougher, smarter and better structured. Prestia killed our mids with 13 clearances (our best was Kennedy with 5) and TDK was given a lesson in ruck work. The stats will tell you the hitouts were reasonably close but have a look at the impact when TDK hit the ball compared to Nankervis. The majority of Nankervis' centre bounce taps were hit to 90 degrees where Prestia protected the space beautifully and won the ball or the Tigers vacated the space and ran onto the loose ball.
It was always going to happen at some stage. Opposition coaches were going to analyse the weaknesses of our mids and realise we are OK in close but when the opposition ruck hits the ball long or wide like Thursday night, we're exposed by pace. We also had 2 or 3 attacking the inside ball around the ground while Richmond had one player get in and knock it out whilst they had others waiting on the outside.
Our mids have been given a lesson 2 weeks in a row and they cant just keep playing on their own terms when the opposition have the ascendancy.

Credit to Richmond though, they were smarter and better prepared. They played wet weather footy while we stupidly tried to play as we have previously in dry conditions.
They often pushed their near side winger into the stoppages to man up Cripps or Walsh which released one of their mids and it hurt us significantly. Our mids talked early in the season about "connection". Well that connection is not there at the moment. TDK is often hitting the ball straight ahead when he gets his hand to it but our mids are rarely there to receive.
We're desperate for Pittonet to return as he provides inside grunt and he helps keep the ball in contest.

While I'd rather our mids were still dominating, I like to see our players challenged as well. It's better it happen now than September. (If we're lucky enough to get there).
Let's see what they can come up with. I'd like to see a tag when required. I posted in another thread a few weeks ago that Prestia loves playing us so we should have been prepared. I would have assigned Hewitt to him with a hard tag and shut him down. Over to the mids and Tim Clarke to see what they come up with.


Great analysis BV: Food for thought.

Our boys did look great from the outset imo, winning the ball, and committing to connecting with each other by hand. Prestia had a bit of a purple patch after a while, and kept the ball going their way. Not sure if coached adjusted to Prestia or Prestia fell away. Problem was it took them too long to get their heads around the fact the ball was like a bar of soap whilst the rain was relentless in the early part of the game.

Something must have gone right for us, even against the tide of unfavourable umpiring, after the 16 minute mark in the 2nd after we (along with the umpires) gave the Tigers a 35 point lead, when it was 6.3 vs 0.4, we outscored the Tigers 5.11 vs 9.8.

The point is, everyone adjusted and improved after the 16 minute mark of the 2nd. Not sure if Voss was outcoached or he was not listened to by his charges.

I think we did an incredible to stay in the game, and could have pinched it with all those key players out injured. I was more disappointed in our forwardline, other than that purple patch Harry had in the last.

Lets hope we learn about our weaknesses for the Frep game. Its all fixable.


Listening to Vossies press conf, he felt we got caught out thinking we would win the stoppages.

Perhaps we either didn’t have or activate a plan B to losing the stoppage clearances


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:28 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
As a kid you are always told to play in front . And i notice at the ball ups and stoppages that what our mids do . I think there opponents allow that and in fact seem to shove 'em in closer to the contest and as a result keep the outside territory to themselves where they have the pace advantage . Pretty obvious opposition coaches have worked us out .


There was a bit of that Mick but unfortunately our flogging at the stoppages was mostly due to Richmond being tougher, smarter and better structured. Prestia killed our mids with 13 clearances (our best was Kennedy with 5) and TDK was given a lesson in ruck work. The stats will tell you the hitouts were reasonably close but have a look at the impact when TDK hit the ball compared to Nankervis. The majority of Nankervis' centre bounce taps were hit to 90 degrees where Prestia protected the space beautifully and won the ball or the Tigers vacated the space and ran onto the loose ball.
It was always going to happen at some stage. Opposition coaches were going to analyse the weaknesses of our mids and realise we are OK in close but when the opposition ruck hits the ball long or wide like Thursday night, we're exposed by pace. We also had 2 or 3 attacking the inside ball around the ground while Richmond had one player get in and knock it out whilst they had others waiting on the outside.
Our mids have been given a lesson 2 weeks in a row and they cant just keep playing on their own terms when the opposition have the ascendancy.

Credit to Richmond though, they were smarter and better prepared. They played wet weather footy while we stupidly tried to play as we have previously in dry conditions.
They often pushed their near side winger into the stoppages to man up Cripps or Walsh which released one of their mids and it hurt us significantly. Our mids talked early in the season about "connection". Well that connection is not there at the moment. TDK is often hitting the ball straight ahead when he gets his hand to it but our mids are rarely there to receive.
We're desperate for Pittonet to return as he provides inside grunt and he helps keep the ball in contest.

While I'd rather our mids were still dominating, I like to see our players challenged as well. It's better it happen now than September. (If we're lucky enough to get there).
Let's see what they can come up with. I'd like to see a tag when required. I posted in another thread a few weeks ago that Prestia loves playing us so we should have been prepared. I would have assigned Hewitt to him with a hard tag and shut him down. Over to the mids and Tim Clarke to see what they come up with.


Great analysis BV: Food for thought.

Our boys did look great from the outset imo, winning the ball, and committing to connecting with each other by hand. Prestia had a bit of a purple patch after a while, and kept the ball going their way. Not sure if coached adjusted to Prestia or Prestia fell away. Problem was it took them too long to get their heads around the fact the ball was like a bar of soap whilst the rain was relentless in the early part of the game.

Something must have gone right for us, even against the tide of unfavourable umpiring, after the 16 minute mark in the 2nd after we (along with the umpires) gave the Tigers a 35 point lead, when it was 6.3 vs 0.4, we outscored the Tigers 5.11 vs 9.8.

The point is, everyone adjusted and improved after the 16 minute mark of the 2nd. Not sure if Voss was outcoached or he was not listened to by his charges.

I think we did an incredible to stay in the game, and could have pinched it with all those key players out injured. I was more disappointed in our forwardline, other than that purple patch Harry had in the last.

Lets hope we learn about our weaknesses for the Frep game. Its all fixable.


Thanks " Vain " and Bondi . Love ya stuff boys plus " Sue ",another beauty...................Great point Vain re : better now than later in the year . Plenty of time to tinker . If there is one bloke that can work out midfield stuff it is Voss coz he was an absolute Maestro in there .

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Blue Vain is exactly right Prestia killed us couldn’t understand how he got 13 clearances got the first 3 I reckon
Lost game right there by not closing him down

No umpire decision or arc reason for that just bad planning or execution


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:54 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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you know what, im not sure they are better prepared is the right reference ...

i think their style, and it is their only style, is better suited to the wet conditions .. it was a game of ebbs and flows for mine ...

when it was wet - their natural game style stood out and they dominated
when it was dry - our natural game style stood out and we dominated

an argument to be said, that we should have understood the conditions better and adapted, and you wont get an argument out of me, but it was almost the perfect storm for the tigers in the first quarter, and they took a full pound of flesh whilst they could in the conditions that best suited their game style.

was thinking about this over the weekend ... that game played at Marvel .. would most likely have yielded a different result IMO .. again, considering our outs, is an impressive thought.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:18 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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frank dardew wrote:
Blue Vain is exactly right Prestia killed us couldn’t understand how he got 13 clearances got the first 3 I reckon
Lost game right there by not closing him down

No umpire decision or arc reason for that just bad planning or execution


Quote:
Fast forward to Round 14 and it was a different story. The Tigers won the clearance battle 41-28, a gap of 13.

Prestia won 13 clearances by himself, including four in the first quarter and four in the last. His presence in the midfield was almost singlehandedly the difference between the two teams.

Garry Lyon praised the 29-year-old for his performance and highlighted the difference he makes in the Richmond midfield.

“Dion Prestia on Thursday night, he had 13 clearances against the Carlton clearance machine,” Lyon told SEN Breakfast.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/06/19/what-was-the-biggest-difference-between-richmonds-r1-loss-to-carlton-and/

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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IIRC Cripps, Fish and Hewett were on Prestia at stoppages at stages. They all let him either push them off too easily or let him have the space and width to do damage not only at that contest but the subsequent others afterwards.
The mistake we made was not replacing Cerra with an inside mid/tagger and just like Shiel did the week before, we got smashed in clearances and we didn't adapt.
Kennedy needed to fill that void but couldn't, I'm assuming he's still not 100%.
Walsh was not the answer IMO either, he needed to play the same role as Short did for them who killed us as a result, 989m gained.
I seen Bolton take him out a few times as well as other players block him on the outside to stop his run.
We were realistically down a mid all day.
Hopefully this week if Cerra is still out we bring in some more grunt with burst if possible. Dow, Setters or Hayes possibly.
The other out there change could be putting in Cottrell as a tagger, I reckon he has the run, speed and grunt to shut anyone down.
The only concern is his disposals and decision making.
Brayshaw is a big task, fast, endurance, clean and very damaging.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:17 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Not sure if I’ve missed it but has Lynch been cited by the MRC for eye gouging Saad?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:24 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Not even mentioned in the Match Review article on afl dot com, guess it falls under the good bloke / not that kind of player (yet this kind of thing always happens when he's around) category.


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