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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 2:03 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Location: dudley!!!
CFC8795 wrote:
bender wrote:
if they get it to their forwards often enough, we will struggle

If they score more than we do, we will struggle. :smoking:


touche

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 11:23 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
billy_bongo wrote:
david31 wrote:
I’d be shocked if Owies was dropped. 2 goals and 8 tackles (6 inside 50) last week. Number one in the AFL for forward 50 tackles this year. Durdin, who is a better long term prospect IMO, would be under more pressure with only 2 goals in the past 5 games.


Yes, no way known Owies will be dropped. Durdin could do with a goal or two but he's still bringing the pressure so safe for the time being.

I doubt either will be dropped as well.
Both had good games and I think some aren't seeing what Durdin's role is.
It seems the coach is playing him mainly as a loose defender between the arcs and sometimes D50 as well as a pressure forward, he spent more time (56%) in the defensive half last week again.
It's our team defence strategy.


I think its obvious what Durdin's role is: Small Forward to apply forward pressure and kick goals.

I can see a huge difference in his output between his round 1 game and the games thereafter.

Round 1 14 disposals 2 goals 1 behind, 1 goal assist, 1 tackle: BRILLIANT

2 goals 1 behind and 13 tackles (4 vs North) in the next 5 games: TIRED?



We know what his role is, and know what he does, and can do. I believe, based on his stats and the eye test, it is warranted to ask for a bit more from him, with Motlop knocking on the door and selected as an Emergency this week ( a sign of things to come?)

Everyone has to keep improving with the exception of Cripps. Yes, even walsh, coz he's been fantastic, but needs to be brilliant :wink: Charlie needs to kick more of his set shots at goal....etc etc

Durdin:
Round 1
29% Defensive, 71% Offensive - 2.1 goals
Round 2
29% Defensive, 71% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Round 3
24% Defensive, 76% Offensive - 1.2 goals
Round 4
Did not play
Round 5
25% Defensive, 75% Offensive - 1.0 goals
Round 6
60% Defensive, 40% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Round 7
56% Defensive, 44% Offensive - 0.0 goals

His position might be a small forward but clearly his role has changed. Team defence?
It's not an excuse for not kicking any goals, but it's pretty hard to do that from the defensive half of the ground.
Fisher must've had the same role to help our transition from defence and stop/slow opposition scoring.

As a comparison of the listed forwards from the weekend:
Fisher - 57% Defensive, 43% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Carroll - 30% Defensive, 70% Offensive - 1.0 goals
Martin - 16% Defensive, 84% Offensive - 2.2 goals
Curnow - 24% Defensive, 76% Offensive - 3.4 goals
Durdin - 56% Defensive, 44% Offensive - 0.0 goals
McKay - 25% Defensive, 75% Offensive - 4.2 goals
Owies - 40% Defensive, 60% Offensive - 2.0 goals

And yes I agree all players need to keep getting better and I believe they will as the new systems become second nature to them.

Go the Blues.


Thanks Sidefx.
That's Great work.

You've done your homework, and know what you're talking about.
Much more accurate than my eye test. Much appreciated and I applaude you :clap:

If Durdin's role has changed to be more defensive than offensive then my opinion on his role changes too.
Surely, (not Shirley), at 20yo and our smallest player, therefore shortest legs, there's got to be players on our list with better wheels than Durdin for that sort of role.

Fisher at least clocked up 21 disposals and 472m gained compared to Durdin's 11 disposals and 178m gained and Fisher had 2 goal assists to Durdin's 1.
Excuse my ignorance of other mitigating factors, but those figures alone suggest Durdin gives us 50% less impact than Fisher, and here's me wanting more consistency from Fisher.

Its clear to me that Durdin's spot in the team is under the microscope, and precarious, with 19yo Motlop knocking on the door, and Philp, Honey and Cuningham expected to be AFL ready in the 2nd half of 2022 season. Tells me we have reasons to believe we can improve on the first half of this season.

I will have a keen eye on Durdin, Owies and Fisher tomorrow, and wish them well.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 12:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Jordan Boyd is a late inclusion for tomorrow's game, taking the place of Lachie Plowman (illness).

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 12:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
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Jordan Boyd is a late inclusion for tomorrow's game, taking the place of Lachie Plowman (illness).


Can't believe the day has come that I'm disappointed to see Plowman replaced... but here it is

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 12:56 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Location: Australia
Surely Kemp would be better option as he gives us a bit ore height and flexibility?


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
sinbagger wrote:
Surely Kemp would be better option as he gives us a bit ore height and flexibility?


Anyone would be a better option than Boyd


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:07 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
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Clearly the coaching staff rate Boyd.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:16 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: addis ababa, Ethiopia
bluechampion wrote:
Clearly the coaching staff rate Boyd.


they sure do...and they don't rate willo....


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5506
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
I doubt either will be dropped as well.
Both had good games and I think some aren't seeing what Durdin's role is.
It seems the coach is playing him mainly as a loose defender between the arcs and sometimes D50 as well as a pressure forward, he spent more time (56%) in the defensive half last week again.
It's our team defence strategy.


I think its obvious what Durdin's role is: Small Forward to apply forward pressure and kick goals.

I can see a huge difference in his output between his round 1 game and the games thereafter.

Round 1 14 disposals 2 goals 1 behind, 1 goal assist, 1 tackle: BRILLIANT

2 goals 1 behind and 13 tackles (4 vs North) in the next 5 games: TIRED?



We know what his role is, and know what he does, and can do. I believe, based on his stats and the eye test, it is warranted to ask for a bit more from him, with Motlop knocking on the door and selected as an Emergency this week ( a sign of things to come?)

Everyone has to keep improving with the exception of Cripps. Yes, even walsh, coz he's been fantastic, but needs to be brilliant :wink: Charlie needs to kick more of his set shots at goal....etc etc

Durdin:
Round 1
29% Defensive, 71% Offensive - 2.1 goals
Round 2
29% Defensive, 71% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Round 3
24% Defensive, 76% Offensive - 1.2 goals
Round 4
Did not play
Round 5
25% Defensive, 75% Offensive - 1.0 goals
Round 6
60% Defensive, 40% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Round 7
56% Defensive, 44% Offensive - 0.0 goals

His position might be a small forward but clearly his role has changed. Team defence?
It's not an excuse for not kicking any goals, but it's pretty hard to do that from the defensive half of the ground.
Fisher must've had the same role to help our transition from defence and stop/slow opposition scoring.

As a comparison of the listed forwards from the weekend:
Fisher - 57% Defensive, 43% Offensive - 0.0 goals
Carroll - 30% Defensive, 70% Offensive - 1.0 goals
Martin - 16% Defensive, 84% Offensive - 2.2 goals
Curnow - 24% Defensive, 76% Offensive - 3.4 goals
Durdin - 56% Defensive, 44% Offensive - 0.0 goals
McKay - 25% Defensive, 75% Offensive - 4.2 goals
Owies - 40% Defensive, 60% Offensive - 2.0 goals

And yes I agree all players need to keep getting better and I believe they will as the new systems become second nature to them.

Go the Blues.


Thanks Sidefx.
That's Great work.

You've done your homework, and know what you're talking about.
Much more accurate than my eye test. Much appreciated and I applaude you :clap:

If Durdin's role has changed to be more defensive than offensive then my opinion on his role changes too.
Surely, (not Shirley), at 20yo and our smallest player, therefore shortest legs, there's got to be players on our list with better wheels than Durdin for that sort of role.

Fisher at least clocked up 21 disposals and 472m gained compared to Durdin's 11 disposals and 178m gained and Fisher had 2 goal assists to Durdin's 1.
Excuse my ignorance of other mitigating factors, but those figures alone suggest Durdin gives us 50% less impact than Fisher, and here's me wanting more consistency from Fisher.

Its clear to me that Durdin's spot in the team is under the microscope, and precarious, with 19yo Motlop knocking on the door, and Philp, Honey and Cuningham expected to be AFL ready in the 2nd half of 2022 season. Tells me we have reasons to believe we can improve on the first half of this season.

I will have a keen eye on Durdin, Owies and Fisher tomorrow, and wish them well.

In relation to Fisher v Durdin and without watching the game again, looking at their heat maps, Fisher was more in the middle of the ground and on the opposite wing to Durdin who was more closer to the D50. Durdin also had 4 tackles to Fishers 2 so as an assumption, Fisher may have been playing more a wing/outside mid role hence the meters gained and higher disposal. Durdin may have been roving the contests and applying defensive pressure at the contest to help with our transition, I remember seeing him tackling in the D50 one game and is what brought his role to my attention. His strength seems to be his pressure and ability to get the ball moving which may explain his role, he had 3 1%ers on the weekend to Fisher's 0 so he might be more suited to the in and under game. As for his height maybe he is playing a Caleb Daniels ferret type role for the team. :grin:

I would really like to Jesse play too, but I'm not sure if he will provide the in and under support like Durdin, I think he would more suited to replacing Martin's role.
Philp is an interesting one, I see him playing the same role that Fisher did on the weekend but wouldn't be surprised if played on the wing instead of Newnes injecting more speed.
But we defiantly have the depth in the small to medium forward position and I think when Philp and Honey become available maybe we will see Durdin back in the F50 applying his pressure. Pretty exciting to look forward too.

Either way it's all pretty interesting and leaves me wondering if this is just the way the game is developing or is it a coaching strategy to deal with weaknesses in some of our positions like the wing.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Melbourne
Every week.

What is the story with Kemp? He doesn't seem to be able to get a game despite all these injuries and illnesses.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:28 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7860
Location: Melbourne
Boyd again… Really?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:29 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5506
missnaut wrote:
Every week.

What is the story with Kemp? He doesn't seem to be able to get a game despite all these injuries and illnesses.

I didn't see him last week but in the games I've watched, there are other players well ahead of him.
I think I read somewhere they moved him from defence to attack (or the other way round) so maybe they are just waiting until he can hold down a position and play the role well before promoting him.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Effes wrote:
Carlton FC
@CarltonFC
·
1m
Jordan Boyd is a late inclusion for tomorrow's game, taking the place of Lachie Plowman (illness).



The write up on Boyd by O'Keefe in the VFL player review was very positive.

Quote:
He was fantastic in offence for us. His ability to get run receives allows him to penetrate the opposition defence and give us field position. Of his 17 disposals, 11 were handball receives, with a number of those coming in the middle of the ground: that ended in five inside 50s and a great long-range goal. He also showed some great leadership and care for his teammates in an inexperienced backline.


IF Boyd can have a break out game vs the young Crows, it will do wonders for his confidence and great cover whilst Stocker is out when the 3rd tall comes back in (Plow, Kemp in the short term, and Marchy and Gov in the long term). This will release a quality player in Williams Doc or Saad to the midfield group.

Good luck to him.

IMO, Kemp is the obvious choice but he only played his first game in the backline in the VFL this year and only 9 disposals. Despite O'Keefe suggesting Kemp took the opposition's tallest forward he was the loose man in defense a lot of the time and he didn't set the world on fire imo.

Nevertheless, if we believe in Voss's order of things, Kemp should be the logical next in line after Marchbank, McGovern, and Plowman. Maybe the MC don't rate Kemp ready for AFL at the moment.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
Setterfield comes into the Emergencies to cover Boyd's inclusion.

So, he was available to play VFL.

That proves Setterfield was dropped, omitted, a couple weeks ago for a decline in form; something many of us noted for weeks.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:42 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I expect Dow to be named the sub.

IMO Motlop would be given a shot in the 22 for his first game

Cottrell was sub last week and played in the last quarter.

Setterfield didnt play last week and was dropped from the AFL team a couple of weeks ago.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 3:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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The MC have continuously said they'll reward form in the VFL. So Boyd should come in before Kemp.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 4:13 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 898
muzza wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
You'd think our bench would be JSOS, Owies, Newman and Kennedy. Either Cottrell sub again or maybe Dow

Agreed, assuming there’s no more illness/injury surprises awaiting us.

I don’t reckon we should have someone sub for consecutive games, so Dow would be my choice for sub this week.

And yet I am of the opinion that all teams should be smart and train up two or three subs and that should be their only role in the team.

When they don’t play as sub they are in the twos. When they are sub, dependent on time on ground for that game, they do fitness work immediately after the game….which has been done before…. And additional skills and match sim throughout the week. The medi sub has been used in an utterly unprofessional manner.

The US special teams and kickers seem to be able to perform at the highest level with minimal ground time. As one B grade footy player once said, “it’s not rocket surgery”.


Very interesting thought and I tend to agree with you. I think the medi-sub is not necessarily the 23rd best available player but rather the available player outside the chosen 22 who best covers any loss we might have. Ideally this means being able to play tall or small and in all 3 zones on the ground. Not easy - to me only Kemp in our squad meets that criteria & even if a ruck goes down he has the height to either go into the ruck for brief minutes a la JSOS or cover a JSOS/Young/McDonald while they took some time in the ruck. Plowman and Marchbank to an extent though neither have much credentials as a forward they both could go back or wing comfortably enough. Neither much chop as a "break glass in case of emergency" ruck. Cottrell Parks Boyd and Newnes are players with the versatility to play multiple roles but not so much height. McDonald can cover any tall role but not medium or small.

I think you would need at least 2 because you don't want the same medi-sub week after week if they are not getting playing time. I'd prefer a 3-man rotation so that the players were getting decent game time in the 2s ie 2 weeks out of 3. In our case I'd say Kemp Plowman and Marchbank if all players available and in passable form. Obviously you don't play them if they are stinking it up in the twos. Equally obviously if the medi-sub gets a decent run and plays well enough to push some one out of the 22 then they become starting 22 and the player pushed out fights for their spot back.

So vote 1 Kemp for medi-sub?


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 4:29 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Huge opportunity to move into top 4 tomorrow if Dees as expected knock off aints. Can't let chances like this slip


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 4:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
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You haven't been watching Carlton since 2002 have you?


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 4:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Traveller86 wrote:
You haven't been watching Carlton since 2002 have you?


Don't know whether to laugh or cry. This is a new Carlton though. Despite being decimated and being nervous as hell, I still expect us to get the job done.


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