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How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
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Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Thoughts?

I think this is partly due to the 6 6 6 rule. Teams have extra motivation and belief to go hard and throw caution to the wind as they know if they get it in quick they stand a better chance of capitalising than in previous years. And from that stems a flow on effect of group energy.

But I am sure there's other reasons too.

The man on the mark rule probably plays into it too.

And I suspect footballers in 2022 are probably just more physically dynamic than in the past. Faster. Stronger. Fitter.

And the renewed proliferation of key forwards kicking bags provides impetus to midfielders.

And not having OMac and McG doesn't help.

But how do we stop it?

Coaches seem lost for answers.

The coach that figures it out will probably become a Premiership coach as it'll be akin to the next evolution in defence.

One thing I noticed on the weekend was even when we got first hands on it at centre bounces the pressure from Port's onballers was greater than in the first half and this resulted in Carlton stuffing up the clearance opportunity or having an untidy F50 entry. So were we just slightly off?

I suspect if we can kick the first 1 or 2 goals we can snuff out any attempt at a comeback by the opposition. But we seem incapable of doing that. Port's onballers were playing with an incredibly high level of intent after half time. I imagine it's very hard to match that when you are 50 points up. It's natural to ease off that 0.5%. But maybe that's the challenge for us.

Or is the answer to be more defensive in the centre square in the first 10 mins of the third quarter. To nullify the opposition's kamikaze style approach. We can't put numbers back at the bounce so it makes sense to put the brakes on at the source. But maybe that doesn't work.

Or maybe when the ball is bounced the wings run into the D50 and the HFFs run up to the wing.

Or the wings rush into the centre at the bounce to try and help negate the opposition getting first hands on the ball.

I suspect Voss will be banking on an attacking approach to fixing this issue rather than a defensive tweak. To continue winning the clearance and to be efficient in F50.

There is a clear trend here both in the AFL and especially for the Blues and if we can figure out how to snuff out any ressurgance after HT then we could become a very dominant side.

Personally I suspect the answer is tactical more than mental. But how I am not sure.
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Left field solutions welcomed.

How about giving away an intentional free at the centre bounce and the wings rushing to D50?

Or if we win a clearance we set up ultra defensively behind the ball to lock it in?
Author:  CK95 [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
What about trying to force a second ball up, where the 6-6-6 wouldn't apply (admittedly it's not an attacking approach)
Author:  Drewgirl [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
I think we just panic when the opposition rush us. We start being indecisive, going backwards and sidewards and over possessing the ball. We make bad decisions under pressure.

We need to just play our own game and stay composed.
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
CK95 wrote:
What about trying to force a second ball up, where the 6-6-6 wouldn't apply (admittedly it's not an attacking approach)


Like this idea.
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Drewgirl wrote:
I think we just panic when the opposition rush us. We start being indecisive, going backwards and sidewards and over possessing the ball. We make bad decisions under pressure.

We need to just play our own game and stay composed.


Easy in theory.

You're sort of saying we need to stop the effect

But I'm saying we need to stop the cause

Cause and effect
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Change of personnel in the square?
Stronger bigger bodies to steamroll?
Throw KPPs in there?
I know I know that's crazy
Just trying to think outside the square pardon the pun
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Barely contest the ruck. Stick a smaller more mobile ruck in . So Jack. And he barely competes. So he becomes a fourth onballer. To try and negate the chances of a clearance the other way. Force the second ball up. Then send players back.
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Kreuzer would he handy now.
Author:  Paddycripps [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Squirel grip the opposing ruckman.
Author:  Cazzesman [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Deny the opposition the football. It is like the final 2 minute play in a game. Hard to score without the ball. Surely it's not rocket science. Keepings off, lead at the ball carrier where possible not sideways unless well in the clear, spread. Do not kick to a contest and give it up.

Deny, deny, deny.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  frank dardew [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Agree with Cazz
Is exactly what the Hawks did to Gellong at the Start of the match and in the last quarter
Author:  CK95 [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Paddycripps wrote:
Change of personnel in the square?
Stronger bigger bodies to steamroll?



I wonder if Vossy might eventually try the opposite. Our midfield bulls have been super this year but maybe getting some runners in there like Fisher for a burst or two would give the midfield a bit of a refresh. So that we can keep up with Rozee Butters types in second halves when Kennedy types start to slow down.

In the bigger picture we could always do with recruiting another pacy mid or two
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Clog the corridor force them wide … and it would help if players had enough awareness to take an extra step back to avoid kicking into the man on the mark lol …
Author:  Sidefx [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
We are currently the #1 team for disposals, #4 for kicks, #2 for handballs yet we are #8 for Marks.

We are also #9 for tackles, #1 for tackles inside F50, #10 for marks inside F50, #8 for contested marks, #7 inside F50 and #12 for rebound to inside F50.

Melbourne as the barometer and stats that are better, #5 marking, #4 marks inside F50 , #2 contested marks, #2 inside F50 and #7 rebound to inside F50.

Based on these stats I think the way forward is better control when we have the ball, better delivery to marking targets especially in F50 entires and vastly improving our building from the defence.
We also need to work on our contested marking to increase the turnovers, so even if we lose in the middle we can still get possession, especially in defence and transition that to scoring to keep the pressure on.
That's what has been killing us the most IMO, the transition to no score, that's if we transition past the middle at all.
So we also need to be more patient when delivering to our forwards on the transition and pick better targets rather than rushing the ball in for quick rebounds that catch us out most times making it easy for the opposition to go down the centre and score against us.

Other than this, I have no idea. :lol:
Author:  Sidefx [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Cazzesman wrote:
Deny the opposition the football. It is like the final 2 minute play in a game. Hard to score without the ball. Surely it's not rocket science. Keepings off, lead at the ball carrier where possible not sideways unless well in the clear, spread. Do not kick to a contest and give it up.

Deny, deny, deny.

Regards Cazzesman

Yep, when you are down 50 at half time, time is the pressure.
And the longer you have the ball, the less time they have.
I'd rather see 3rd quarter keepings off than giving them a look in and momentum.
You save energy too.
Author:  keogh [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
You can’t stop momentum swings but you can reduce their scoring capacity by simply having numbers constantly behind the ball.
On the couch highlighted how Melbourne always have this happening. The GWS forwards got sucked up the ground to get cheap and easy possessions.When they got it in the midfield but they were basically faced with a brick wall ahead of them. If your midfield is strong and bats deep when you get it you advance quickly. The best mode of defence i
All this involves all players being selfless knowing their roles and where they are allowed t run to create zonal pressure.
I really liked the fact that Voss made 5 changes last week.
He is clearly working out which players can deliver to make us harder to score against.
It also involves hard and repeat running.
Cottrell is rough around the edges but he was one of those players who stood up when it mattered in the final 5 minutes.
Melbourne won a flag based on being hard to score against.
It’s what you do without the footy that’s more important than what you do wit it
Author:  AGRO [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
CK95 wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Change of personnel in the square?
Stronger bigger bodies to steamroll?



I wonder if Vossy might eventually try the opposite. Our midfield bulls have been super this year but maybe getting some runners in there like Fisher for a burst or two would give the midfield a bit of a refresh. So that we can keep up with Rozee Butters types in second halves when Kennedy types start to slow down.

In the bigger picture we could always do with recruiting another pacy mid or two



When Sergio Silvagni was our ruck rover the theory went that in the second half his opponent’s slowed down and Serge kept on motoring along at the same pace.

:lol:
Author:  Scotty12000 [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Sidefx wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Deny the opposition the football. It is like the final 2 minute play in a game. Hard to score without the ball. Surely it's not rocket science. Keepings off, lead at the ball carrier where possible not sideways unless well in the clear, spread. Do not kick to a contest and give it up.

Deny, deny, deny.

Regards Cazzesman

Yep, when you are down 50 at half time, time is the pressure.
And the longer you have the ball, the less time they have.
I'd rather see 3rd quarter keepings off than giving them a look in and momentum.
You save energy too.

Control the ball, control the tempo. Almost every game this season we’ve been sucked into a fast and frenetic opposition attack where we become reliant on “sprint and spray” rather than locking down, soaking up time and regaining composure. Really screaming for leadership at these times and it just hasn’t seemed to materialise yet.
Author:  GMCbris [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stop the momentum (when the other team has it)
Sidefx wrote:
We are currently the #1 team for disposals, #4 for kicks, #2 for handballs yet we are #8 for Marks.

We are also #9 for tackles, #1 for tackles inside F50, #10 for marks inside F50, #8 for contested marks, #7 inside F50 and #12 for rebound to inside F50.

Melbourne as the barometer and stats that are better, #5 marking, #4 marks inside F50 , #2 contested marks, #2 inside F50 and #7 rebound to inside F50.

Based on these stats I think the way forward is better control when we have the ball, better delivery to marking targets especially in F50 entires and vastly improving our building from the defence.
We also need to work on our contested marking to increase the turnovers, so even if we lose in the middle we can still get possession, especially in defence and transition that to scoring to keep the pressure on.
That's what has been killing us the most IMO, the transition to no score, that's if we transition past the middle at all.
So we also need to be more patient when delivering to our forwards on the transition and pick better targets rather than rushing the ball in for quick rebounds that catch us out most times making it easy for the opposition to go down the centre and score against us.

Other than this, I have no idea. :lol:
very interesting stats... thanks Sidefx

I mentioned in another thread our issues with not getting players in motion, making space ahead of the ball and therefore the ball carrier needing to kick to a contest, but to add to this, our kick in system needs serious work.

Fix both of these and the repeat entries into our defensive 50 will be reduced, which in theory, should stop these runs.

Seems like this isn't hard to fix, both are simple training drills... which can be well... "drilled" into the players.

Go blues, I feel we are very close.

G
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