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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:39 am 
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Robert Walls

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One other thing I noticed - we did a better job of setting up for defensive contests. Not everyone went up to compete - someone stayed down and we had a player a short kick away from the contest so we could clear but maintain possession.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:44 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Stefchook wrote:
I know it's very early in the new regime, but it looks we might be learning to play with AFL-level strategies. Using designated kickers. Controlling the ball with handball or those 8 metre kicks. Applying defensive pressure around the ball. Getting a defensive winger behind the ball. Shepherding in marking contests (even though we did it poorly).

Midfield looks much stronger and less flaky around the ball. I wonder if that contributed to Cripps excelling at what he does well, rather than trying to do everything. Cerra looks a beauty. Classy with the ball. Knows how to apply AFL pressure. Hewett impressed me as well. Strong enough to move the ball on when tackled. But holds the ball in when he's doing the tackling.

Durdin the biggest improver of our young guys. Won lots of ball. Applied terrific pressure. Even competed in the air, despite his size.
Williams and Saad were electric with their rebound.
SOJ very good.
The most dangerous I've seen Charlie since he returned to the side.
Kemp looks dangerous up forward too. Nice to have another thumping kick for goal. Just need to continue to pour games into him. But with Gov shifting to defence, I assume Kemp will be midfield/forward for now.
Owies and Pittonet were good.
Decent 2nd half from Boyd, Gov and OMac.

Usual timid and costly ground contests from LOB. But if we can get him the ball 20-25 times a game, it's probably worth the cost. In his defence, he did compete in 3 aerial contests.

Thought Newman had a shocker.


A lot has changed for the better.

I like the way you put it Stef " AFL-level strategies.", 101 Footy for AFL level.

Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.

Some posters have attributed a couple goals to LOD mistakes. There was 1. But it was not for lack of trying. AND I'm sure he realised or was told to get more physical, and he seemed to do so as the game wore on. He runs hard both ways: AFL quality. He runs quick to support his team mates" AFL quality wingman. His kicking is very good when he's confident: AFL quality.

I agree with you Stef. Get the ball into LOBs hands and he can do the rest with his kicking. Hang on, that's what happpened. Players were confident giving the ball to LOB, Saad and Williams. Get Docherty amongst that group AND Stocker, and our delivery will be AFL standard more than not, and more than we sufferers have been use to seeing for decades.

If Charlie kicked straight he could have had at least 4 goals, he would usually kick. It was said he was kicking them from 70 out during the preseason, so I'm expecting 40-50 goals from Charlie this year, and another 40-50 from Harry. There's plenty of other goalkickers in the forwardline from what I saw.

In facy, if Newman is peripheral, and he may be, he's a good player to have as depth.

I just hope Pittonet can do as well against the better ruckmen in the AFL because that's where it started on Saturday. Big test for him this Thursday night.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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bluechampion wrote:
One other thing I noticed - we did a better job of setting up for defensive contests. Not everyone went up to compete - someone stayed down and we had a player a short kick away from the contest so we could clear but maintain possession.


Wasn't that a fantastic sight too! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:56 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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bondiblue wrote:
Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.


So just to confirm, because other posters see it differently to you, they're too emotional and can't be taken seriously?
Cazzesman spent years watching young players and he believes O'Brien isn't physical enough for AFL. Is he dismissed as too emotional as well?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.


So just to confirm, because other posters see it differently to you, they're too emotional and can't be taken seriously?
Cazzesman spent years watching young players and he believes O'Brien isn't physical enough for AFL. Is he dismissed as too emotional as well?



No.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:14 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.


So just to confirm, because other posters see it differently to you, they're too emotional and can't be taken seriously?
Cazzesman spent years watching young players and he believes O'Brien isn't physical enough for AFL. Is he dismissed as too emotional as well?



I don't doubt what Cazz saw back in 2017 when he was in recruitment and LOB was playing in the TAC. Why would I?
Have you heard Cazzeman thoughts about LOB's game vs StKIlda? That's the game I'm referring to, (see thread title) nothing else.

I can't see why LOB is tarnished with the view he is responsible for 2 goals against (on BF), so I'm sharing that view.
With the goal dribbled off the ground by Saints tall, LOB comes into the picture late (obviously running hard to make a contest and support his team mates) and I can't see why some blame him for that goal. The Saints' tall had 2 other Carlton opponents closest to him at the time.

I'm only commenting on what I saw from LOB after what seemed a tentative approach to a contest in the first quarter.
Surprisingly, I saw some physical collisions instigated by LOB thereafter. I think the want to be physical was there and it seems to me he's getting better going by last praccy game.

Maybe his execution of the physical contest, like you suggest needs work, and hey, it may not be fixable. I think practise, good coaching, desire and confidence can go along way to fixing his weakness.



I've drawn a line in the sand with Lachie. The past is the past. I'm interested to see if he can improve on his weaknesses and make a fist of that Wing position, this year.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.


So just to confirm, because other posters see it differently to you, they're too emotional and can't be taken seriously?
Cazzesman spent years watching young players and he believes O'Brien isn't physical enough for AFL. Is he dismissed as too emotional as well?



I don't doubt what Cazz saw back in 2017 when he was in recruitment and LOB was playing in the TAC. Why would I?
Have you heard Cazzeman thoughts about LOB's game vs StKIlda? That's the game I'm referring to, (see thread title) nothing else.


I'm talking about his body of work since he's been at Carlton, Bondi.
The game against St Kilda just reinforced what's been happening for 4 years.
I was sitting in the stands watching and a couple of times he shirked for contact and in one case, dropped a simple mark because an opponent was bearing down on him which created a turnover. I'm one of the last posters to write off young players however O'Brien has been as concern in this area since he walked in the door.
I really enjoy your posts Bondi and admire your even handed approach but to suggest posters are making judgements on O'Brien because they are "too emotional" is a tough call. Surely adverse judgements can be built on rational, long term assessments as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:39 pm
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Location: Darwin
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Ive watched the game 3 times now, and the more I watch it, the more it becomes clear that a lot of posters on TC and BF are too emotional with their take on some players to take serious. Me included.


So just to confirm, because other posters see it differently to you, they're too emotional and can't be taken seriously?
Cazzesman spent years watching young players and he believes O'Brien isn't physical enough for AFL. Is he dismissed as too emotional as well?



I don't doubt what Cazz saw back in 2017 when he was in recruitment and LOB was playing in the TAC. Why would I?
Have you heard Cazzeman thoughts about LOB's game vs StKIlda? That's the game I'm referring to, (see thread title) nothing else.

I can't see why LOB is tarnished with the view he is responsible for 2 goals against (on BF), so I'm sharing that view.
With the goal dribbled off the ground by Saints tall, LOB comes into the picture late (obviously running hard to make a contest and support his team mates) and I can't see why some blame him for that goal. The Saints' tall had 2 other Carlton opponents closest to him at the time.

I'm only commenting on what I saw from LOB after what seemed a tentative approach to a contest in the first quarter.
Surprisingly, I saw some physical collisions instigated by LOB thereafter. I think the want to be physical was there and it seems to me he's getting better going by last praccy game.

Maybe his execution of the physical contest, like you suggest needs work, and hey, it may not be fixable. I think practise, good coaching, desire and confidence can go along way to fixing his weakness.



I've drawn a line in the sand with Lachie. The past is the past. I'm interested to see if he can improve on his weaknesses and make a fist of that Wing position, this year.


I thought LOB had a good game. He had many possessions and usually used the ball quite well - with on or two exceptions. He certainly had plenty of run. I agree that at times he has not been as hard at the ball as other players but whilst the the occasion quoted above looked bad when I first viewed it, I think the zoomed lens on the camera might have made him look closer to the contest that he actually was.

There are players in many sides that are predominantly outside players who are valuable to their side because of that outside run. I would still like to see him have the opportunity to develop further. But in saying that I do recognise that when we have all our players available, it will be a tough side to get into and some good players will miss out.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:

Quote:
I'm talking about his body of work since he's been at Carlton, Bondi.
The game against St Kilda just reinforced what's been happening for 4 years.


Mate, I know where you are coming from.
At times in that 4 years I thought he'd given up the quest to become a bonafide AFL player, which requires toughness at the contest.


Quote:
I was sitting in the stands watching and a couple of times he shirked for contact and in one case, dropped a simple mark because an opponent was bearing down on him which created a turnover. I'm one of the last posters to write off young players however O'Brien has been as concern in this area since he walked in the door.


Yep. I saw that dropped mark, and I just don't know if it was a legit drop, shit scared of contact...but his reflex recovery and handball raised my eyebrows. If he was worried so much by contact, I asked why was he still in the frame? How could he get the ball away if his mind was elsewhere. There was a hint in hos change of mindset I was willing to recognise or believe, or hope. The shirk in the 1st was embarrassing and I bet the fans in the legends stand let him know before Voss did/could.

He's on stage. Maybe the penny dropped. He HAS TO perform this year after being relegated on the list.

Quote:
to suggest posters are making judgements on O'Brien because they are "too emotional" is a tough call. Surely adverse judgements can be built on rational, long term assessments as well


Again, I did refer to BF too ( and my main reference point to the emotional stuff) and I find that channel good for info and a wide range of thoughts (too wide) and I have faves there including many ex TCers , some I know personally but some of the commentary writing him off even whilst Voss has cleaned the slate, drawn the line and given he is the most qualified to help, I couldn't help but notice that commentary was a tad exaggerated and emotional, and within the walls of TC I feel he has been pigeon holed, branded and written off, and I feel that's more a case of an emotional connection to the past rather than viewing with an open mind, like Voss is doing.

I liked some of the things he did. Liked what he did in the Saints game last year (not the last quarter though), and he is the only tangible wingman I can see on our list other than Walsh Cerra and Docherty...I don't think Cottrell is ready but can become our Mick young with his slight body.

I hope LOB succeeds as a wingman ... and I also have faith in Dow. Its just that after 4 years of going to the draft with high picks, its our imports which seem to dominate our best 22, and its about time some of our high picks said enough is enough, coz next year we might get another freebie FA like Martin, Hewett and Williams and even more pressure on those 2 top 10 2016 recruits.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:39 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

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I agree with you Bondi. LOB far from the finished article, but he was decent v St Kilda. 25+ touches. Deserves a real shot


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