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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2131
FarmerBlue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content


I call bullshit.


Your call. I don’t know much of what goes on but I know this and don’t say it lightly



:eek:


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 Post subject: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 6549
Location: Australia
missnaut wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content
Interesting.
I remember when he kicked his first goal barely anyone went up to him which we all thought was weird.


Given that I recall that his first goal was a banana through the opposition goal posts I’m not surprised no one congratulated him….


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 Post subject: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:31 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 6549
Location: Australia
FarmerBlue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content


I call bullshit.


Your call. I don’t know much of what goes on but I know this and don’t say it lightly


Why promote him ahead of Dow then?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:38 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5269
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
Because he can tag and Dow can't?

Read Oliver, Petracca, and Langdon. Even Brayshaw.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:35 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 4923
Location: Bendigo
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content

Stocker’s cards have been on the table since he left the bubble in the shortened season.

I think you’re full of it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:23 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 549
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content

Stocker’s cards have been on the table since he left the bubble in the shortened season.

I think you’re full of it.


Thanks. Good discussion :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:42 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: dudley!!!
keogh wrote:
Crusader wrote:
keogh wrote:
Time for some home truths about some of these ridiculous List Management decisions given the evidence is building up with time.
Whilst I’m happy with 12 wins this year it doesn’t hide the sad fact that some of our recruiting decisions have been monumentally catastrophically shit.
Jack Martin 27 years old 36 out of 59 games played 5 year deal worth around 3.5 million acquired through the pre season draft.

Martin was meant to give us midfield run.What he has delivered in three years is a couple of cameo quarters up forward. Soft at the contest and is simply not fit enough.

Will Setterfield 24 years of age 53 out of 83 games played given 2 deals adding up to 5 years on around $300000. Traded for a future second rounder and pick 43.

Another who meant to give us midfield grunt. Doesn’t go in hard enough so it’s off to the wing where he is too slow and a terrible kick. Was bigger than most kids at Under 18 level. Smart recruiters wouldn’t be sucked into he TAC form.

Mitch McGovern 27 years of age 38 out of 83 games played. On a five year deal worth $3.5 million
Gave up Shane McAdam pick 26 ,28 a future fifth rounder in return for a future third rounder and Magic Mitch’s services
Looking like the worst of the lot
His body is as brittle as a warmchickenbone. Meant to ba forward. Now down back and as usual totally one dimensional. Good pack mark . Beautiful kick . That’s it.
And McAdam has been better than any small forward we have dished up over 4 years.

Shane McAdam is trash - absolute trash - and the primary reason this record of yours is irredeemably broken.

McGovern has been paid more than he’s earned and this intercept role is for certain the end of the line. The picks to get him were frivolously spent, like tipping 20% to a Subway sandwich artist. But the continued harping on about some D Grader being our salvation is straight up lunacy.

If McAdam is a d grader what letter do you put next to Martin


z. i agree with you, he is a waste. but owies, durdin and motlop have much more upside than mcadam. give up on flogging that horse.

the rest of your post is spot on

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: dudley!!!
Crusader wrote:
keogh wrote:
The one thing in life that is constant is change.
That’s why you don’t sign anyone on a 5 or more year deal
Even 4.
Things can change very quickly
Darcy Cameron is 6 years into his AFL career.
He has gone past Grundy.
Hard to think that 2 years ago. But it can happen.
By the way pick 48 2016 draft.
Interesting what we do with our first round pick which will be around 12.
Why pick Dunkley.
I agree with the previous poster
What’s the bet the club uses it’s first 2 picks
( say pick 12 and 30) to get another big fish that disappoints

As I said before look at how successful teams go about recruiting

We are better this year. Just hope we haven’t peaked.
And don’t forget no third rounder due to Cerra deal

Come off it.


keogh is right, cameron has gone past grundy, which is why they want to get rid of him. a better, much cheaper ruck

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:54 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19832
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content


I call bullshit.


Your call. I don’t know much of what goes on but I know this and don’t say it lightly


When are you saying this all happened? or, are you saying its a now thing?

True, it did happen, but that was a long time ago Farmer.

Bridges were built over summer, when it was realised he suffered from Depression. The stories that were made up were exactly stories.

He has built up confidence, mateship and relationships since then.

If you're hearing it from one or two people, I wonder if they are the typical bogans every club has, who dont know much or on the outer amongst the group themselves. Gives them a sense of grandeur.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19832
Location: Bondi Beach
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content

Stocker’s cards have been on the table since he left the bubble in the shortened season.


This.

Long time ago.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:59 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19832
Location: Bondi Beach
bender wrote:
Crusader wrote:
keogh wrote:
The one thing in life that is constant is change.
That’s why you don’t sign anyone on a 5 or more year deal
Even 4.
Things can change very quickly
Darcy Cameron is 6 years into his AFL career.
He has gone past Grundy.
Hard to think that 2 years ago. But it can happen.
By the way pick 48 2016 draft.
Interesting what we do with our first round pick which will be around 12.
Why pick Dunkley.
I agree with the previous poster
What’s the bet the club uses it’s first 2 picks
( say pick 12 and 30) to get another big fish that disappoints

As I said before look at how successful teams go about recruiting

We are better this year. Just hope we haven’t peaked.
And don’t forget no third rounder due to Cerra deal

Come off it.


keogh is right, cameron has gone past grundy, which is why they want to get rid of him. a better, much cheaper ruck


Maybe the Pies have a cap problem? I bet it hasnt been solved with Treloar and Stephenson going. I bet it gave them short term relief from those back ended contracts....they are still paying for. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:01 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 19832
Location: Bondi Beach
Quote:
“The most underpaid player in the competition this year is Nick Daicos. He’s the most underpaid player in the game.

“If he was not in his first year, what would his contract value be worth? He would be a $600,000 to $700,000 player I would assume if he wasn’t on a set contract in his first year.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/11/king-and-cornes-most-underpaid-afl-players/

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 Post subject: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:16 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 6549
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
“The most underpaid player in the competition this year is Nick Daicos. He’s the most underpaid player in the game.

“If he was not in his first year, what would his contract value be worth? He would be a $600,000 to $700,000 player I would assume if he wasn’t on a set contract in his first year.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/11/king-and-cornes-most-underpaid-afl-players/


Is young daicos as good as Walsh in his first season? I haven’t paid any attention or watched any filth matches this year so I honestly have no idea.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:33 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 3007
sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
“The most underpaid player in the competition this year is Nick Daicos. He’s the most underpaid player in the game.

“If he was not in his first year, what would his contract value be worth? He would be a $600,000 to $700,000 player I would assume if he wasn’t on a set contract in his first year.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/11/king-and-cornes-most-underpaid-afl-players/


Is young daicos as good as Walsh in his first season? I haven’t paid any attention or watched any filth matches this year so I honestly have no idea.


He has been very good but played across half back a fair bit and gotten possessions by kicking in from full back.
Walsh playing more midfield was impressive. Of course I'm bias though.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:56 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 549
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content


I call bullshit.


Your call. I don’t know much of what goes on but I know this and don’t say it lightly


When are you saying this all happened? or, are you saying its a now thing?

True, it did happen, but that was a long time ago Farmer.

Bridges were built over summer, when it was realised he suffered from Depression. The stories that were made up were exactly stories.

He has built up confidence, mateship and relationships since then.

If you're hearing it from one or two people, I wonder if they are the typical bogans every club has, who dont know much or on the outer amongst the group themselves. Gives them a sense of grandeur.


Now and not bogans. I wouldn't say it unless it's true

Quote in yellow is 100% incorrect but believe what you want


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:16 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 549
Owies, Cottrell, Boyd all getting two year deals.
Expect atleast one more to announce the same very shortly


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:23 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 549
keogh wrote:
The one thing in life that is constant is change.
That’s why you don’t sign anyone on a 5 or more year deal
Even 4.
Things can change very quickly
Darcy Cameron is 6 years into his AFL career.
He has gone past Grundy.
Hard to think that 2 years ago. But it can happen.
By the way pick 48 2016 draft.
Interesting what we do with our first round pick which will be around 12.
Why pick Dunkley.
I agree with the previous poster
What’s the bet the club uses it’s first 2 picks
( say pick 12 and 30) to get another big fish that disappoints


Interesting that we chased Cameron hard when Pies got him, so we went for Pittonet. Would have been a great get
Cameron has shown this year that he can influence games as good as Grundy and given what he is being paid I would be very happy to let Grundy go. Paying him a 7 year deal at around $7m was crazy

It's why i like our ruck mix and think that adding a mature back up (cheap) is the way too go


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:30 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 16660
FarmerBlue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Farmer you have twice referenced Stocker's attitude now.

What is the problem with it? I know he had a tough year during covid hubs but what's the hit on him now?


Has an attitude problem. Has all along. Club and teammates have tried hard to help him. Very individual and has a large number of players off side. Also, no where near as fit as he should be especially around fat content

Stocker’s cards have been on the table since he left the bubble in the shortened season.

I think you’re full of it.


Thanks. Good discussion :thumbsup:


FWIW, I'm unsure of the level of discontent you've outlined but I have similar concerns about Stockers attitude and approach to his fitness.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:40 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 549
rhino27 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
“The most underpaid player in the competition this year is Nick Daicos. He’s the most underpaid player in the game.

“If he was not in his first year, what would his contract value be worth? He would be a $600,000 to $700,000 player I would assume if he wasn’t on a set contract in his first year.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/11/king-and-cornes-most-underpaid-afl-players/


Is young daicos as good as Walsh in his first season? I haven’t paid any attention or watched any filth matches this year so I honestly have no idea.


He has been very good but played across half back a fair bit and gotten possessions by kicking in from full back.
Walsh playing more midfield was impressive. Of course I'm bias though.


I think he has been. He has great workrate and his poise and ball use is something special. Walsh is a gun but young Daicos has abilities not many do


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:39 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 4923
Location: Bendigo
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
The one thing in life that is constant is change.
That’s why you don’t sign anyone on a 5 or more year deal
Even 4.
Things can change very quickly
Darcy Cameron is 6 years into his AFL career.
He has gone past Grundy.
Hard to think that 2 years ago. But it can happen.
By the way pick 48 2016 draft.
Interesting what we do with our first round pick which will be around 12.
Why pick Dunkley.
I agree with the previous poster
What’s the bet the club uses it’s first 2 picks
( say pick 12 and 30) to get another big fish that disappoints


Interesting that we chased Cameron hard when Pies got him, so we went for Pittonet. Would have been a great get
Cameron has shown this year that he can influence games as good as Grundy and given what he is being paid I would be very happy to let Grundy go. Paying him a 7 year deal at around $7m was crazy

It's why i like our ruck mix and think that adding a mature back up (cheap) is the way too go

If both players were available and you could pay them $1, who’s in front?

Fair dinkum, the recency bias here is comical.

Raw hitouts
Hitouts to advantage differential
TOG
Positional versatility
Scoring
Every defensive stat ever imagined

If you take a step back and have a proper think about it, the gap between Grundy & Cameron needs a logarithmic scale.

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