Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:15 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:54 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
OK, I’m going there…..

Setterfield & Stocker leaving for nothing is giving me flashbacks to Garlett, Robbo & Laidler scenarios.



Who would you have delisted instead or would you have taken less picks in the draft?
FWIW, I wouldn't have been too pissed if we kept both but Setters wanted more money/tenure which Essendon** offered and I wouldn't have matched.
As for Stocker, he doesn't want it enough. That sort of shit can easily become infectious.



I agree. all clubs have similar issues this time of year. We move on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:55 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
OK, I’m going there…..

Setterfield & Stocker leaving for nothing is giving me flashbacks to r Garlett, Robbo & Laidler scenarios.



Who would you have delisted instead or would you have taken less picks in the draft?

I would rather have Setterfield & Stocker on our list than Philp/Fogarty & E. Curnow. Ed’s been a good servant but non-listed captain of our VFL side would have been my preferred role for him in 2023. Philp has a year to go on his contract - why? We (Austin) gave him a two year extension at the end of 2020 (his first season) when he still had a year left on his existing contract. Why? Where was he going? Was that good list management? He hasn’t played since. Fogarty has shown glimpses but, respectfully, I think VFL is his level. While I’m at it, I might as well add that I think Akuei is miles off it.
I hope they all prove me wrong!
:thumbsup:

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:07 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
As far as I know, Ed isn't on our list.
Ask for Fogarty, I agree he's off the pace but Philp is worth another year IMHO.
The Setterfield argument is irrelevant IMO. We wanted to keep him but not at multiple years and higher dollars.
He wanted to go so we had no choice other than to overpay or let him go.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:51 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Blue Vain wrote:
The Setterfield argument is irrelevant IMO.

I disagree. We need to be outcome focused.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:09 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 448
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The Setterfield argument is irrelevant IMO.

I disagree. We need to be outcome focused.
Sure, but outcome focused also means not overpaying for a depth player.

We all love Setters, but if he wanted more money and more playing time, when he's clearly not worth it when our midfield is healthy, then the only option is to let him go.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:36 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
BamBam7 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The Setterfield argument is irrelevant IMO.

I disagree. We need to be outcome focused.
Sure, but outcome focused also means not overpaying for a depth player.

We all love Setters, but if he wanted more money and more playing time, when he's clearly not worth it when our midfield is healthy, then the only option is to let him go.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

The outcome was bad. That doesn’t mean I wanted us to overpay him. I’m just saying the outcome was bad. We don’t know the inner workings of contact negotiations etc, we can only comment on the outcome. The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:38 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10058
Couldn’t agree more with everything you’re saying ABNS. :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:20 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 33644
Location: Half back flank
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:23 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
CK95 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

No but they are responsible for list management outcomes.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:29 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 33644
Location: Half back flank
I reckon they are, to a point

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:32 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
aboynamedsue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

No but they are responsible for list management outcomes.


So there were only two possible list management outcomes. 1. Overpay him and he stays or 2. let him go. Which one as List Manager would you choose?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:13 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
carntheblues wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

No but they are responsible for list management outcomes.


So there were only two possible list management outcomes. 1. Overpay him and he stays or 2. let him go. Which one as List Manager would you choose?


We could go down all sorts of hypothetical rabbit holes about how we might have avoided getting ourselves into a situation with our list where we had to trade Setterfield to Essendon* for essentially nothing.

The bottom line for me is that he is no superstar but I would prefer to have him on our list in 2023 than, say, Fogarty, Philp & E. Curnow.

I’m not a highly paid list manager and I have no idea of the inner workings of player contracts. None of us do. As chumps in the stands, we can only comment on outcomes. You win some, you lose some, but ultimately the list manager is responsible and it’s not unreasonable to call out a (perceived) bad outcome - especially given our poor history in that space.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:14 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 5812
carntheblues wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

No but they are responsible for list management outcomes.


So there were only two possible list management outcomes. 1. Overpay him and he stays or 2. let him go. Which one as List Manager would you choose?


I'll answer that . I would have met Setters halfway and that would have kept him with us ..............tell you what , half way through next season we will be screaming out for Setters . Reckon he showed what he he's got in the last two games . Extremely underrated player for mine .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:53 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
aboynamedsue wrote:
BamBam7 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The Setterfield argument is irrelevant IMO.

I disagree. We need to be outcome focused.
Sure, but outcome focused also means not overpaying for a depth player.

We all love Setters, but if he wanted more money and more playing time, when he's clearly not worth it when our midfield is healthy, then the only option is to let him go.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

The outcome was bad. That doesn’t mean I wanted us to overpay him. I’m just saying the outcome was bad. We don’t know the inner workings of contact negotiations etc, we can only comment on the outcome. The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.

The player was bad. The outcome was necessary.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:00 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Mickstar wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
The list manager is ultimately responsible for outcomes.


They can't control other clubs' offers though.

No but they are responsible for list management outcomes.


So there were only two possible list management outcomes. 1. Overpay him and he stays or 2. let him go. Which one as List Manager would you choose?


I'll answer that . I would have met Setters halfway and that would have kept him with us ..............tell you what , half way through next season we will be screaming out for Setters . Reckon he showed what he he's got in the last two games . Extremely underrated player for mine .

I tend to agree Mick. Setterfield was the cause of much frustration for me at times during the Teague years, but he also played some very good football at AFL level.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:04 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
To me its pretty obvious that the List Manager did not rate Setterfield as high as some supporters.

IMO he was a role player...average, not even good average.

Have just rewatched the first 8 games of the year, after I rewatched the last 2 games. I will get through the rest of the season in the next fortnight to evaluate the season now the dust and my heart rate has settled.

So far, my conclusion is that LOB and Setterfield are overrated by some supporters. LOB is really not an AFL player, and if he doesn't improve on 2022's performance, will be joining Setterfield at Effendon.

I would have preferred to keep Setters over Fogarty and Ed, but by season's end in 2023, Fogarty, LOB and Ed will be playing a really important role for the list manager, making spots for the round 1, 2 & 3 Draftees or rookie elevation....who knows now that Carlton is a destination club.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:34 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
We’ve got more inside mids than we know what to do with.

If there’s an understudy for George’s role, it’ll be Ed, Doc or Williams.

The variety that we might get from Fogarty, Philp & Honey hasn’t been enough to carry them as forwards. If they can’t get past Owies this year, they’re unlikely to be around in 2024.

Jack Carroll is coming, but his opening would be tied to George. He’s the most likely of the group to bring that outside balance, but needs to add a few kms to his tank.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:40 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 5812
Crusader wrote:
We’ve got more inside mids than we know what to do with.

If there’s an understudy for George’s role, it’ll be Ed, Doc or Williams.

The variety that we might get from Fogarty, Philp & Honey hasn’t been enough to carry them as forwards. If they can’t get past Owies this year, they’re unlikely to be around in 2024.

Jack Carroll is coming, but his opening would be tied to George. He’s the most likely of the group to bring that outside balance, but needs to add a few kms to his tank.


Yep ,reckon Jack Carroll is the one the match committee have earmarked to replace Setters . Reckon Carroll has a heap of ability myself . Trouble with Carroll is he plays like a boy . He's gotta start playing like a man .

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:00 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5461
Crusader wrote:
We’ve got more inside mids than we know what to do with.

If there’s an understudy for George’s role, it’ll be Ed, Doc or Williams.

The variety that we might get from Fogarty, Philp & Honey hasn’t been enough to carry them as forwards. If they can’t get past Owies this year, they’re unlikely to be around in 2024.

Jack Carroll is coming, but his opening would be tied to George. He’s the most likely of the group to bring that outside balance, but needs to add a few kms to his tank.

I think I am missing it, in regards to our midfield and it's depth.

George's role:
Ed - Possibly to old and injury prone, most likely will not fill the role.
Doc - Can play the role at the expense of the backline.
Williams - Not fit enough and I doubt can play the role, even if he remains uninjured.

As for our "inside mids":
1. Firstly they are all slow, we need speed and toughness in a singular player.
2. You can pretty much put bets on 1 or all 3 being injured during the year and for long periods.
3. Other than Walsh to come in and help Cerra it's day light to our other "inside mids", hence why Setters was the only back up in the end.
4. I doubt Carroll will ever get the strength to play Georges role, his build is like Fishers. So that leaves him on the outside or up forward.
5. Dow is the only viable option, but he's not.
6. Cottrell could be a good filler, but we also need his run on the outside.

I agree Fogarty, Philip and Honey will be lucky to remain on our list.

In a perfect run of injuries we are well and truly stacked, but from what I can see, our midfield is light compared to other teams when you factor in the highly likeliness of injury to certain players.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:12 pm 
Offline
Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 233
speed and toughness been on this recruiting wagon for 2 yrs , it is so obvious.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 83 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group