Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:01 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89 ... 93  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:48 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10058
I need some LIKES for Frankie’s posts. LIke, LIke, LIke, LIke.......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:14 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Most clubs that finished above seem to have improved their list moreso than us this trade period.
Not saying it's a bad thing, but clearly we are relying heavily not only on improvement from within but a far better run with injuries.
Whilst I think we will get improvement from within, need a massive change for a better run with injuries.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:29 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:36 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1553
Im so glad we have had a much quieter trade period this year. Its been great to be out of the spotlight for a change.
Perhaps I'm a glass half full guy but to me its an indicator that we are close. Very close.

12 months ago everyone had written the cats off. They only added Ceglar during the trade period in 2021. He had little impact this year.
They had a big win in the draft with De Koning and a good pick up in Stengle but basically growth came from within.

If Austin can find our tall defender in this years draft i think we are on the way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:47 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:38 am
Posts: 5743
Location: home
So how many list spots have we got to fill in ND, RD, PSD, DFA's etc?

_________________
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 pm 
Offline
formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4432
Austin said 4 picks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:11 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
He said also no dfa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:18 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5461
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
I was a fan of Setterfield from his TAC days.

At that time, he had obvious AFL talent. You don't go Pick 5 without showing something.

He won the contested ball, had terrific vision in traffic, he was neat and tidy with his disposal and by all accounts had some leadership potential. On top of that he was a great size and decent athlete. He had the dreaded 'P' word potential, as an 18yr old.

Alas at 25, what he never developed was intensity and a fiercely competitive nature to dominate stoppages and games. He is too good for the VFL and yet his lack of physicality and intensity held him back at AFL level. Some players just don't have that in their makeup.

Keogh he is not a dud. Just like many, many before him, he has so far failed to get the very best out of himself. The penny just hasn't dropped yet and he is far from alone in that regard.

He has frustrated me no end in 2022. He could have secured his spot for the foreseeable future in out best 22 if only.......if only. He could play LOB on a break, if he just applied himself physically. LOB played most of the year and Setters got the bit parts.

His 3 years at Carlton were very disappointing, in that he didn't take those extra steps.

Regards Cazzesman

:clap:
You could add, he has also had 3 different coaches at the club since he was here, so not only was there no continuity in coaching like said clubs, there were no defined roles or structures for his attributes, hardly an environment to excel and get the best out of yourself if you needed the support.
I'd argue to say it's an issue of both player and circumstance.


Players are 18yo men when they come to the club.

They have a fantastic environment to ply their trade and develop.
I dont think the club should provide them with a baby bottle as well.
These kids choose a professional life. Most don't make it after their draft.
Club hardly at fault imo. Easy target.

This isn't WW2.
18yo is hardly a man these days and most of these kids don't develop any maturity until well into their 20s and some I'd say a lot longer.
These kids "want" to be AFL players and a lot of them take longer to adjust to the pressures of the environment than your Walsh types.
And some just realise it's not actually what they want at all or just drag the chain until the penny drops or they are.
Sorry Bondi, but to think the club is hardly at fault for player development both physically and mentally when the club has actually come out and said how bad we've been at player development is kind of a silly comment TBH.



I understand where you are coming from, but I think there's 2 sides of the story.
Setterfield came to Carlton after 3 years with GWS as a hybrid midfielder.
I guess you are saying that 2020-2022 playing for Carlton is the reason he failed.

Wimps sook it up.
When the going gets tough the tough get going.
The game isnt for the faint hearted.
Maturity....if its missing at 18yo after plying their trade, developing attending lectures and groomed for AFL in the TAC...I don't feel that's Carlton's fault, other than simply picking the wrong player, who didnt have what it takes. We are talking about one player here: Setterfield. There's no proof Carlton failed him in 2020 and 2021. He was a conditional footballer imo.

Lets see how good this hybrid goes at Effendon. If he's like Brodie at Freo, like Lloyd suggests....Brodie was found out to be a downhill skier in Finals. Its in his nature.

Nope, not saying that at all.
What I have been saying is that you can't just blame the players solely.
Voss has already shown this year what a better development system, playing players in the positions they were drafted for and in roles that highlight their strengths can do if they want to do the work. We've all seen it and the fact we have seen it only after one year highlights how poor it has been at the club.
Maturity at 18yo no matter how much you want it to be true for all kids is as rare as hens teeth, no matter how many courses they do or lectures they attend, they're still kids. Our society no longer demands kids to mature by that age anymore and it hasn't for a long time, yet all of a sudden we expect kids playing sport to?
I personally believe, if the AFL want to have less hits and misses with drafting kids then we need to raise the age to 21 and have a national seconds competition.
And I'd say the fact the club has come out saying how poor our player development has been is enough proof for me we have failed a lot of our kids, not just Setters.

I wish him the best at the cheats, but I can't see how a change will benefit him TBH (and I'm secretly hoping it doesn't).
He's already had 4 coaches, 4 systems and even more roles.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:59 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:10 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:46 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


We haven’t addressed our ruck weakness, what happens if Pittonet gets hurt again?

Arguably our rucks are the weakest and thinnest in the league…

They’re 2nd rucks on lists that are better than our first ruck…

Pittonet could barely move against the Pies (and since, has had more surgery) yet the MC didn’t have any options…


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:17 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 14040
Location: Melbourne
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


I'm of the belief that any hole left by Setters (wing/midfield) moving on, can be filled by the likes of

Doc
Dow
Carroll
Cuningham
Kemp
Ed Curnow.

Personally, I would love to see Doc come into that midfield rotation and even rotate off a wing with Cera/Walsh. Carroll is also the one I want to see have a huge pre-season. if he can consistently push for a game he might hold down a wing opposite Acres.

If Doc moves into the middlefield my back 6 would be...

Boyd - S.Durdin - Williams
Saad - Weitering - McGovern

That still leaves - Marchbank, Young, Newman and Plowman as backups.

On current form the best we could have hoped for was a 3rd round pick. We got a 4th round pick.............pfttt So what.

Austin is still keen to move up in the order according to his news conference. He is just waiting for the dust to settle on Trade week. There was so much going on with deals, I suspect most Clubs weren't prepared to discuss it at the time.

1. GWS
2. North Melbourne
3. North Melbourne
4. Essendon*
5. Gold Coast
6. Hawthorn
7. Geelong
8. West Coast
9. St Kilda
10. Carlton

So, who gives up a pick inside 10? You would think to get to 4,5 or 6 Carlton would have to give up 10 and next year's 1st rounder plus maybe some steak knives. Who needs picks/points next year for FS's or the like? I doubt an upgrade on 10 will happen.

Realistically Austin was talking about angling to get a pick between 10-29.

If we finished top 6 next year and ended up with around #12. Do you give that up to get maybe
18. GWS
or
19. GWS this year?

Watch this space I think........

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:40 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
Cazzesman wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.

Austin is still keen to move up in the order according to his news conference. He is just waiting for the dust to settle on Trade week. There was so much going on with deals, I suspect most Clubs weren't prepared to discuss it at the time.

1. GWS
2. North Melbourne
3. North Melbourne
4. Essendon**
5. Gold Coast
6. Hawthorn
7. Geelong
8. West Coast
9. St Kilda
10. Carlton

So, who gives up a pick inside 10? You would think to get to 4,5 or 6 Carlton would have to give up 10 and next year's 1st rounder plus maybe some steak knives. Who needs picks/points next year for FS's or the like? I doubt an upgrade on 10 will happen.

Realistically Austin was talking about angling to get a pick between 10-29.

If we finished top 6 next year and ended up with around #12. Do you give that up to get maybe
18. GWS
or
19. GWS this year?

Watch this space I think........

Regards Cazzesman

I think the makey-uppy says we’d have to get a 2023 pick back in return.

Give: R1 2023, #49
Get: #15, R4 2023

Pick 49 might actually move up in the order once Brisbane, Adelaide & Essendon* start matching F/S bids.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:50 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Cazzesman wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


I'm of the belief that any hole left by Setters (wing/midfield) moving on, can be filled by the likes of

Doc
Dow
Carroll
Cuningham
Kemp
Ed Curnow.

Personally, I would love to see Doc come into that midfield rotation and even rotate off a wing with Cera/Walsh. Carroll is also the one I want to see have a huge pre-season. if he can consistently push for a game he might hold down a wing opposite Acres.

If Doc moves into the middlefield my back 6 would be...

Boyd - S.Durdin - Williams
Saad - Weitering - McGovern

That still leaves - Marchbank, Young, Newman and Plowman as backups.

On current form the best we could have hoped for was a 3rd round pick. We got a 4th round pick.............pfttt So what.

Austin is still keen to move up in the order according to his news conference. He is just waiting for the dust to settle on Trade week. There was so much going on with deals, I suspect most Clubs weren't prepared to discuss it at the time.

1. GWS
2. North Melbourne
3. North Melbourne
4. Essendon**
5. Gold Coast
6. Hawthorn
7. Geelong
8. West Coast
9. St Kilda
10. Carlton

So, who gives up a pick inside 10? You would think to get to 4,5 or 6 Carlton would have to give up 10 and next year's 1st rounder plus maybe some steak knives. Who needs picks/points next year for FS's or the like? I doubt an upgrade on 10 will happen.

Realistically Austin was talking about angling to get a pick between 10-29.

If we finished top 6 next year and ended up with around #12. Do you give that up to get maybe
18. GWS
or
19. GWS this year?

Watch this space I think........

Regards Cazzesman


Hey Cazzesman, what do you like about S Durdin that puts him ahead of Young & Marchbank?

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:21 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 1711
If the reports from all the experts are correct that next year's draft crop is absolutely stocked with talent and some are calling it a super draft , then why on earth would we entertain any future trading of our 1st,2nd or even 3rd round just to get an extra pick between 10-29????

The AFL draft gurus are telling us that this year there is a clear top 5 then throw a blanket over the rest whereas next year's crop runs 20+ deep.

If anything I'd be loading up for next year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:30 am 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
ColourMan wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


We haven’t addressed our ruck weakness, what happens if Pittonet gets hurt again?

Arguably our rucks are the weakest and thinnest in the league…

They’re 2nd rucks on lists that are better than our first ruck…

Pittonet could barely move against the Pies (and since, has had more surgery) yet the MC didn’t have any options…


Both TDK and Mirkov are one more year stronger and more mature, also a fit S Durdin frees Young to play ruck if needed, plus JSOS as break glass. We just need to make sure we break even in the ruck as worst case.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:59 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 14040
Location: Melbourne
aboynamedsue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


So we've improved our list without trading out our early picks?


We addressed a weakness (wing) during the trade period but lost some midfield depth without improving our draft position.


I'm of the belief that any hole left by Setters (wing/midfield) moving on, can be filled by the likes of

Doc
Dow
Carroll
Cuningham
Kemp
Ed Curnow.

Personally, I would love to see Doc come into that midfield rotation and even rotate off a wing with Cera/Walsh. Carroll is also the one I want to see have a huge pre-season. if he can consistently push for a game he might hold down a wing opposite Acres.

If Doc moves into the middlefield my back 6 would be...

Boyd - S.Durdin - Williams
Saad - Weitering - McGovern

That still leaves - Marchbank, Young, Newman and Plowman as backups.

On current form the best we could have hoped for was a 3rd round pick. We got a 4th round pick.............pfttt So what.

Austin is still keen to move up in the order according to his news conference. He is just waiting for the dust to settle on Trade week. There was so much going on with deals, I suspect most Clubs weren't prepared to discuss it at the time.

1. GWS
2. North Melbourne
3. North Melbourne
4. Essendon***
5. Gold Coast
6. Hawthorn
7. Geelong
8. West Coast
9. St Kilda
10. Carlton

So, who gives up a pick inside 10? You would think to get to 4,5 or 6 Carlton would have to give up 10 and next year's 1st rounder plus maybe some steak knives. Who needs picks/points next year for FS's or the like? I doubt an upgrade on 10 will happen.

Realistically Austin was talking about angling to get a pick between 10-29.

If we finished top 6 next year and ended up with around #12. Do you give that up to get maybe
18. GWS
or
19. GWS this year?

Watch this space I think........

Regards Cazzesman


Hey Cazzesman, what do you like about S Durdin that puts him ahead of Young & Marchbank?


Power, Physicality, Intensity, Kicking skills.

Get him a full pre-season and I hope he can hold down to spot against the big guys. Hopefully allowing Weiters to move closer to CHB.

I would want to get Weiters and McGovern distributing the ball as often as possible from the back of the Square (Def side) rather than from the goal square.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:01 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 14040
Location: Melbourne
deano35 wrote:
If the reports from all the experts are correct that next year's draft crop is absolutely stocked with talent and some are calling it a super draft , then why on earth would we entertain any future trading of our 1st,2nd or even 3rd round just to get an extra pick between 10-29????

The AFL draft gurus are telling us that this year there is a clear top 5 then throw a blanket over the rest whereas next year's crop runs 20+ deep.

If anything I'd be loading up for next year.


Thank's Deano. I wasn't aware of that chat. I was just speculating on what Austin said yesterday, and how he might achieve it.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:08 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Thanks for the reply Cazzesman. Hopefully SD can step up as that anchor in defence. Young did pretty well in his first year with us I thought, but we need competition for that spot. It’s a shame OMac couldn’t get his body right because he had the ability to do it.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:43 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
frank dardew wrote:
MV Ain’t pick 68 and Setterfield for a future 4 th round pick

MV is about what the others got for Schache Francis and Weideman

Yes that’s no great compensation for any but still better than what we got



Even got more for SPS last year pick 54 not a great result but better than this deal and that should have been benchmark

Didn’t need to pull trigger on this deal on Monday why not wait in case you can get involved with crazy last day antics where clubs get desperate and do stupid things


https://www.afl.com.au/news/856864

Quote:
INSIDE MIDFIELDER JOBS ARE AT A PREMIUM

THERE was a clear juxtaposition in the trade between the leading inside midfielders available – Taranto, Hopper and Josh Dunkley – and the rest who were on the market.

Taranto's move to Richmond saw the Tigers give up picks No.12 and 19, and the Giants also picked up selections No.31 and a future first-round pick for Hopper's shift to Richmond. The Dogs also pushed for two first-round picks for their best and fairest winner Dunkley and eventually settled on a deal in the final half-hour.

But aside from that trio, there was a distinct shift in the valuing of ball-getting midfielders. Hawthorn was happy for Mitchell to head to Collingwood and O'Meara to land at Fremantle and grabbed youngster Cooper Stephens to fill a void, while Carlton swapped Will Setterfield to Essendon* essentially for a pick slide in the fourth round.

No other inside ball-getter found new homes, showing clubs view the role as limited in the modern engine room.

For the second straight year, Matt Crouch looked everywhere for a new home but couldn't find one, while Carlton's Paddy Dow didn't find a new club. The same went for Brisbane's Rhys Mathieson, who was open to a trade if a suitor came.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89 ... 93  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mickstar and 52 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group