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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Thanks Paddy and Crusader.
It's pretty much as I thought then.
A pretty scary position to be in considering how long we have been re-building for and that IMO we will need more talent to not just make the 8 but to play on the big stage and win. I fear we will have to follow the Pies or Suns and have to offload some top end talent in order to progress as I can't see us relying on our current list on it's own. You have to ask if these big contracts to so few are the right way to go vs what Geelong are seemingly doing, paying their top tier a lot less across the board to build quality depth across the whole team.

I just hope the new administration can pull us out of the hole that the previous ones have seemingly put us in, with wasted draft picks, poor development and game strategies as well as poor contract negotiations for mostly injury prone players. Those 2 years could've well and truly derailed all the hard work and risk of a full rebuild.
Hopefully Cook stays on a little longer as he will be the one to sort this out and re-direct the ship, so to speak.
And in the future these massive contracts to too few become a thing of the past and we can get some leverage back.

I'm still optimistic about our future and especially Voss and his game plan, but I feel I am probably a little less bullish about it going into next season if he doesn't have the right assets to complete it.

I just hope we don't trade out pick 10 for multiple lower picks, I feel we need a mature kid that is ready to go next season and have and impact in the middle alongside our first choice mids. It'll be an interesting draft night for sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Sidefx wrote:
You have to ask the following:
- Why would we give away our only midfield depth player who actually had a half decent crack at filling the injury gap this year?
(I'm not advocating Setters was A grade quality, but he was depth and the better of what we had available this year)


Remember, we didn't delist Setterfield. Austin said we wanted to keep him but if he was offered a 3 year contract by Essendon*, would you be happy if we matched it? I wouldn't be. I can't blame him moving on for better security and more opportunity.
Without handcuffing him like Levi Casboult, our options were limited with his uncontracted status.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Both Weidamen and Setters are 3 years of list clogging. Glad the Dons have them

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
You have to ask the following:
- Why would we give away our only midfield depth player who actually had a half decent crack at filling the injury gap this year?
(I'm not advocating Setters was A grade quality, but he was depth and the better of what we had available this year)


Remember, we didn't delist Setterfield. Austin said we wanted to keep him but if he was offered a 3 year contract by Essendon**, would you be happy if we matched it? I wouldn't be. I can't blame him moving on for better security and more opportunity.
Without handcuffing him like Levi Casboult, our options were limited with his uncontracted status.

I don't disagree with you at all, however we kind of set the scene by telling him he will have to wait until after the trade period to get a contract (if that is true). And if Austin really wanted to keep him as he stated, then we should've signed him up for another year or two max well before the trade period or even the end of the season, like they did with LOB.
I think in this scenario we either tried to play chicken and lost or we just had to let either him or Dow go for salary cap purposes.
Either way, it seems it could be detrimental to our depth if we have another season of injuries like this year.
Unless Austin is going to pull a sneaky and add Wallis to the team in the PSD.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Both Weidamen and Setters are 3 years of list clogging. Glad the Dons have them

Possibly, but my concern is that although a list clogger we still had to use him for the two biggest games of the season this year.
Even though we still lost both those games (mainly due to poor conversion by our forwards) he still held his own, the next best mid was Dow who seemed to be a fair way off of Setters this year when playing in the A side.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:40 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
You have to ask the following:
- Why would we give away our only midfield depth player who actually had a half decent crack at filling the injury gap this year?
(I'm not advocating Setters was A grade quality, but he was depth and the better of what we had available this year)


Remember, we didn't delist Setterfield. Austin said we wanted to keep him but if he was offered a 3 year contract by Essendon**, would you be happy if we matched it? I wouldn't be. I can't blame him moving on for better security and more opportunity.
Without handcuffing him like Levi Casboult, our options were limited with his uncontracted status.


We should just be happy we have a good list finally

Two stars up forward

Stars down back

Stars in the middle

Solid rucks

The fact we lose a Setterfield tells us our list is good


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
You have to ask the following:
- Why would we give away our only midfield depth player who actually had a half decent crack at filling the injury gap this year?
(I'm not advocating Setters was A grade quality, but he was depth and the better of what we had available this year)


Remember, we didn't delist Setterfield. Austin said we wanted to keep him but if he was offered a 3 year contract by Essendon***, would you be happy if we matched it? I wouldn't be. I can't blame him moving on for better security and more opportunity.
Without handcuffing him like Levi Casboult, our options were limited with his uncontracted status.


We should just be happy we have a good list finally

Two stars up forward

Stars down back

Stars in the middle

Solid rucks

The fact we lose a Setterfield tells us our list is good

Unless that same list is injured then we go from a 9-3 start to a 12-10 finish (with only 3 wins in half a season) and miss the finals.
Our top is great but that's where it stops, with not enough coin to pay for a good middle tier, that's my concern.
Hopefully another year with the Voss game plan can make us less exposed, injury wise.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5318
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
You have to ask the following:
- Why would we give away our only midfield depth player who actually had a half decent crack at filling the injury gap this year?
(I'm not advocating Setters was A grade quality, but he was depth and the better of what we had available this year)


Remember, we didn't delist Setterfield. Austin said we wanted to keep him but if he was offered a 3 year contract by Essendon****, would you be happy if we matched it? I wouldn't be. I can't blame him moving on for better security and more opportunity.
Without handcuffing him like Levi Casboult, our options were limited with his uncontracted status.


We should just be happy we have a good list finally

Two stars up forward

Stars down back

Stars in the middle

Solid rucks

The fact we lose a Setterfield tells us our list is good

Unless that same list is injured then we go from a 9-3 start to a 12-10 finish (with only 3 wins in half a season) and miss the finals.
Our top is great but that's where it stops, with not enough coin to pay for a good middle tier, that's my concern.
Hopefully another year with the Voss game plan can make us less exposed, injury wise.

Having the stars up the top (like us) but also a bottom 6 who can hold their own is where Geelong excell and we don't.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 5139
Location: Bendigo
If you look at the 40-odd names on our list, it’s pretty hard to argue that the money isn’t in the right place.

Are we honestly three mid to upper-mid level salaries away from unstoppable greatness? Williams, McGovern & Martin aren’t good contracts. But, if you want to wallow over the money that those three are getting, you’ve got to accept that that’s all you stand to gain from winding back the clock.

I would guess that Plowman, Newman, Ed & Jack are all mid-level contracts in the $300k range. All set to expire next year. All solid contributors that weren’t getting replaced this year. Maybe one or two of them aren’t with us next year.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:41 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2041
I reckon that our biggest names are earning unders, similar to Geelong.
Once Crippa signed for less than he is worth, it set the scene for Walsh, Charlie, Harry to follow suit. And with Cook in charge, I suspect he has brought that Geelong thinking to the Blues.
And I think our list is pretty well placed and it wouldn't worry me if we focus the next few years more on the draft - the players we draft in the next 3yrs will be the ones taking over from our older crop of players in 3-5yrs time.
And in terms of Setterfield, we couldn't hold back a player who was going to live mostly in our VFL team, if another club could offer him a starting AFL role. And he was only playing because most of our midfield A-Team was out injured at exactly the same time! Surely that does not happen like that again. And I would also contend that the difference between Setters and Dow in the team is not that much.

Overall, I'm good with the team.
I do expect natural improvement from maturity, game plan, team connection, as well as a few changes around the edges and players stepping it up a level all around the list.
And I'm really hoping that falling just short of finals is burning all through summer and pushing the whole team to work extremely hard over summer and throughout 2023.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:30 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 5139
Location: Bendigo
Courtesy of Fox Footy:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/how-your-club-is-placed-ahead-of-the-list-lodgement-deadline-and-upcoming-afl-draft/news-story/2059a30b5208a9e155f659c597f868a8

Quote:
CARLTON

Arrivals: Blake Acres (traded/Fremantle)

Departures: Will Hayes (delisted), Liam Jones (free agency/Western Bulldogs), Oscar McDonald (delisted), Jack Newnes (delisted), Luke Parks (delisted), Will Setterfield (traded/Essendon*), Liam Stocker (delisted), Tom Williamson (delisted)

Uncontracted (1): Ed Curnow

Contracted: 38 (one category B rookie)

Draft picks: 10, 29, 49, 66

The older Curnow brother will be on the Blues’ list next year but they are yet to decide whether to keep the midfielder on the senior list or delist him and redraft him as a rookie. They have five list openings, assuming the other category B rookie spot won’t be filled. Matt Owies must be upgraded onto the primary list after starting his career as a category B rookie.

Our end of season list was +1 over the maximum.

I think the hold up with Ed is whether we’re able to secure another pick - preferably between 10 & 29, but also the final value of picks 49 & 66. If Rendell is anywhere near the money, and there are only 45 names called out, then 66 might land in the 40s or higher.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:26 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 1624
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Both Weidamen and Setters are 3 years of list clogging. Glad the Dons have them


100% Agree


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:31 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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If we are still on the hunt for wing depth then what about Oskar Baker from Casey.

Quote:
The Dogs have interest in Baker among a group of possible experienced options who could be in contention for a rookie spot later this month.

Baker, 24, is a quick wingman who was a key part of the Casey Demons' VFL premiership this season.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/862995/hawks-sign-forward-after-impressive-vfl-season-dogs-consider-ex-dee


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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We’re pretty close to our ginger quota.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Crusader wrote:
We’re pretty close to our ginger quota.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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FYI ,

https://issuu.com/rookieme/docs/2022_af ... =%23000000

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:55 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Ed Allan @10 is my vote, elite speed and agility. Above average for most of the rest. Good height for the wing

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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OK, I’m going there…..

Setterfield & Stocker leaving for nothing is giving me flashbacks to Garlett, Robbo & Laidler scenarios.

And if we trade our first pick for multiple later picks, then Curly Jr has officially gone Shane Rogers on us….

There. I said it.

Just lock me in the worry room and leave me there until we win #17 :smoking:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:04 pm 
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John Nicholls
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aboynamedsue wrote:
OK, I’m going there…..

Setterfield & Stocker leaving for nothing is giving me flashbacks to Garlett, Robbo & Laidler scenarios.

And if we trade our first pick for multiple later picks, then Curly Jr has officially gone Shane Rogers on us….

There. I said it.

Just lock me in the worry room and leave me there until we win #17 :smoking:


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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aboynamedsue wrote:
OK, I’m going there…..

Setterfield & Stocker leaving for nothing is giving me flashbacks to Garlett, Robbo & Laidler scenarios.



Who would you have delisted instead or would you have taken less picks in the draft?
FWIW, I wouldn't have been too pissed if we kept both but Setters wanted more money/tenure which Essendon* offered and I wouldn't have matched.
As for Stocker, he doesn't want it enough. That sort of shit can easily become infectious.

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