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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:36 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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I reckon we are good for small backs and small forwards and rucks though I think we should try and get an experienced ruck so I think the priorities this off season might well be on talls.

The injuries to our tall backs have shown that we need another tall defender and I think it would be good to get a good young tall forward. Harry and Charlie are mid age now and it won't be long before they are in their late 20s so time is ripe now to draft a tall forward for development.

And with Carroll a good prospect and Cerra and Walsh young and Dow still there or abouts I think we have enough young mids at the moment but that said it never hurts to get another mid.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Paddycripps wrote:
I reckon we are good for small backs and small forwards and rucks though I think we should try and get an experienced ruck so I think the priorities this off season might well be on talls.

The injuries to our tall backs have shown that we need another tall defender and I think it would be good to get a good young tall forward. Harry and Charlie are mid age now and it won't be long before they are in their late 20s so time is ripe now to draft a tall forward for development.

And with Carroll a good prospect and Cerra and Walsh young and Dow still there or abouts I think we have enough young mids at the moment but that said it never hurts to get another mid.


People need to remember that Kemp was recruited as a mid as well. He was a gun mid at Under 18 level. I hope he gets a chance to play there

Along with Carroll & Stocker we have some genuine young talent in that area. Dow Setterfield Hayes & Fisher are options as well


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:20 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
FarmerBlue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
I reckon we are good for small backs and small forwards and rucks though I think we should try and get an experienced ruck so I think the priorities this off season might well be on talls.

The injuries to our tall backs have shown that we need another tall defender and I think it would be good to get a good young tall forward. Harry and Charlie are mid age now and it won't be long before they are in their late 20s so time is ripe now to draft a tall forward for development.

And with Carroll a good prospect and Cerra and Walsh young and Dow still there or abouts I think we have enough young mids at the moment but that said it never hurts to get another mid.


People need to remember that Kemp was recruited as a mid as well. He was a gun mid at Under 18 level. I hope he gets a chance to play there

Along with Carroll & Stocker we have some genuine young talent in that area. Dow Setterfield Hayes & Fisher are options as well


I think it is a stretch to say he was recruited as a Mid.
IIRC correctly he had played in numerous positions before being drafted.
The club may well have hoped when drafting him that he will end up a Mid but he is a fair way off that and I actually see him as a classic utility type. Moving forward I suspect he will be used at either end so as a third tall defender and third tall forward when the need arises and maybe will get a go in the midfield in time.

But I get your point he could end up a Mid.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:35 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Paddycripps wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
I reckon we are good for small backs and small forwards and rucks though I think we should try and get an experienced ruck so I think the priorities this off season might well be on talls.

The injuries to our tall backs have shown that we need another tall defender and I think it would be good to get a good young tall forward. Harry and Charlie are mid age now and it won't be long before they are in their late 20s so time is ripe now to draft a tall forward for development.

And with Carroll a good prospect and Cerra and Walsh young and Dow still there or abouts I think we have enough young mids at the moment but that said it never hurts to get another mid.


People need to remember that Kemp was recruited as a mid as well. He was a gun mid at Under 18 level. I hope he gets a chance to play there

Along with Carroll & Stocker we have some genuine young talent in that area. Dow Setterfield Hayes & Fisher are options as well


I think it is a stretch to say he was recruited as a Mid.
IIRC correctly he had played in numerous positions before being drafted.
The club may well have hoped when drafting him that he will end up a Mid but he is a fair way off that and I actually see him as a classic utility type. Moving forward I suspect he will be used at either end so as a third tall defender and third tall forward when the need arises and maybe will get a go in the midfield in time.

But I get your point he could end up a Mid.


Sorta like a modern day Matt Clape .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
My wish list.

Goldstein - FA
Amon - FA
Go to draft with 4 picks which we can hopefully improve
A rookie pick
Pre season pick - Hope someone like Connor Ballenden that can step in and play any KP needed

I don’t think we need much more.
Fitness of McDonald Marchbank McGovern may influence our decisions


I love the idea of improving our first round pick, like we did in 2015, but to improve our first pick we will need to target a bottom 8 team's first round pick. Its not going to be easy.

With Lions bidding for FS Will Ashcroft, and I'm sure there's other FS picks on the horizon, like Alwyn for Druggies, but he's not going on the first round, let alone Academy picks. Nevertheless, there will be points needed by some teams. This is where we can improve our picks, but our first pick will be a late one as will the Lions and all top 8 teams first pick, Sydney included.

Our 1st round pick will be 18-10. Worth pursuing.
Our 2nd round pick will be 38-30 can get us a good player
Our 3rd round pick may be a promotion from rookie list....LOB unless he's happy to sign a contract extension but remain on the rookie list for another year.

A Ballenden type will go a late pick or PSD.

Because we’re not really in the market for a gun midfielder, I can’t see us trying to nickel and dime our way to a better first pick.

Sydney (holding Melbourne’s first) and Richmond (Norf’s second) are the two clubs poised to bang-bang between 12 and 20. That’s the ideal position, imo. Gold Coast have three second round picks, but I wouldn’t think they’re in the market for an inside mid with low mileage on the clock - and I’ll be [REDACTED] if I’m going to see our 2023 pick head north.

If anything, Dodo’s second pick is the most movable, but that cauliflower would want JSOS’s first born to give it up.

Two picks in the teens is the winning hand for us. Changes to the bidding rules mean those clubs with strong NGA crops will be the ones panhandling this year. Hopefully we’ll get an opening once the pieces start moving around.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:33 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Last night showed me we need to make some tough decisions regarding out list at years end.

Names like Newnes Newman Plowman have consistently failed when needed. Can’t be trusted in big games

Some tough discussions need to be made around Setterfield Dow Cuningham etc

Ball use under pressure is a major issue at the moment


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14236
I am still trying to understand the thinking behind drafting Hayes.
Surely we had more pressing needs such as a ruck/forward/defender type player.
Sounds like the club will likely go to the draft this year and not go for any big name recruits which is probably a good decision given we have to re-sign Harry and Charlie.


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 Post subject: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Location: Melbourne
kezza wrote:
I am still trying to understand the thinking behind drafting Hayes.
Surely we had more pressing needs such as a ruck/forward/defender type player.
Sounds like the club will likely go to the draft this year and not go for any big name recruits which is probably a good decision given we have to re-sign Harry and Charlie.


All I can think is that it was some sort of strategic decision to give VFL players some hope. Agree with many of the comments. Just looks like a very average AFL footballer.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:39 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
AIRCAV wrote:
kezza wrote:
I am still trying to understand the thinking behind drafting Hayes.
Surely we had more pressing needs such as a ruck/forward/defender type player.
Sounds like the club will likely go to the draft this year and not go for any big name recruits which is probably a good decision given we have to re-sign Harry and Charlie.


All I can think is that it was some sort of strategic decision to give VFL players some hope. Agree with many of the comments. Just looks like a very average AFL footballer.

I like to put on my tinfoil hat and tell myself that the blowout in medical budget meant we torched the soft cap and were due to be taxed. Part of the mitigation for that meant the salary he was earning in the Development budget needed to be moved somewhere else.

But that’s just me trying really hard to make sense of it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
AIRCAV wrote:
kezza wrote:
I am still trying to understand the thinking behind drafting Hayes.
Surely we had more pressing needs such as a ruck/forward/defender type player.
Sounds like the club will likely go to the draft this year and not go for any big name recruits which is probably a good decision given we have to re-sign Harry and Charlie.


All I can think is that it was some sort of strategic decision to give VFL players some hope. Agree with many of the comments. Just looks like a very average AFL footballer.


I wouldn’t write off Hayes just yet. He’s played only 13 AFL games. We didn’t have many winners last night

However, I agree about his recruitment at the time as I thought another KPP/Ruck was needed


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
I said a few weeks ago I expect around 6-8 changes and I still expect that. The club will go to the draft and maybe look at a couple of role players. If you look at our Best 22 with an eye on 2023 I see it like this

B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Docherty Weitering Saad
C: Williams Cripps O’Brien
HF: Martin McKay Fisher
F: Silvagni Curnow Motlop
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Walsh
Int: Kennedy Cerra TDK Kemp

Names such as Dow Carroll Marchbank Durdin Durdin McDonald Mirkov Cottrell Owies Stocker could also make a case to be best 22 in 2023 and beyond. We have most bases covered. I feel we lack some running defender and wing depth. A back up KPP/Ruck is needed. We also need better ball users

The others I have real question marks about them moving forward.

Talk is we are into to Lachlan Sholl from the Crows
I expect 4-5 draft picks


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:44 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
All list management decisions going forward need to address the threshold question of durability. Can we rely on this player to be available for the majority of games?
AFL seasons are long and become a grind in the winter months. The better clubs have lists that run deep and are generally durable. Our list is starting to run deep but we’re carrying too many players who are not durable. We know the names. Need to make some tough calls. If we go with the same group of injury prone players and they miss the majority of games through injury as they usually do, we will only he ourselves to blame. Based on interviews with Lloyd and Cook, the club understands the issue and intends to address it. Not sure why it has taken this long though.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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The other way to improve our list is to look within. Do we have players that may thrive in other roles?

I look at what Richmond have done with Rioli & Baker. Geelong with Atkins. Paddy McCartin at the Swans. So many examples. What if we tried?

Fogarty as a small defender
Honey on a wing
Kemp in the middle


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
david31 wrote:
All list management decisions going forward need to address the threshold question of durability. Can we rely on this player to be available for the majority of games?
AFL seasons are long and become a grind in the winter months. The better clubs have lists that run deep and are generally durable. Our list is starting to run deep but we’re carrying too many players who are not durable. We know the names. Need to make some tough calls. If we go with the same group of injury prone players and they miss the majority of games through injury as they usually do, we will only he ourselves to blame. Based on interviews with Lloyd and Cook, the club understands the issue and intends to address it. Not sure why it has taken this long though.


Durability and skills


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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david31 wrote:
All list management decisions going forward need to address the threshold question of durability. Can we rely on this player to be available for the majority of games?
AFL seasons are long and become a grind in the winter months. The better clubs have lists that run deep and are generally durable. Our list is starting to run deep but we’re carrying too many players who are not durable. We know the names. Need to make some tough calls. If we go with the same group of injury prone players and they miss the majority of games through injury as they usually do, we will only he ourselves to blame. Based on interviews with Lloyd and Cook, the club understands the issue and intends to address it. Not sure why it has taken this long though.


Hear, hear.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:33 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 4502
Would we consider someone like Andrew Gaff from West Coast?
He is coming towards the end of his career but is still a quality player and might come cheaply. Geelong have done well with the Isaac Smith trade and maybe we could do the same with someone like Gaff who would help address a glaring weakness in our side.
Matt Crouch is another player maybe worth considering as he seems out of favour at the Crows.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:41 am 
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Rod Ashman
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david31 wrote:
All list management decisions going forward need to address the threshold question of durability. Can we rely on this player to be available for the majority of games?
AFL seasons are long and become a grind in the winter months. The better clubs have lists that run deep and are generally durable. Our list is starting to run deep but we’re carrying too many players who are not durable. We know the names. Need to make some tough calls. If we go with the same group of injury prone players and they miss the majority of games through injury as they usually do, we will only he ourselves to blame. Based on interviews with Lloyd and Cook, the club understands the issue and intends to address it. Not sure why it has taken this long though.


Maybe we need to include a position in the soft cap for a clairvoyant. That way we can vet all potential new recruits and weed out those that wont be durable before they break down!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:44 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Humpers wrote:
Would we consider someone like Andrew Gaff from West Coast?
He is coming towards the end of his career but is still a quality player and might come cheaply. Geelong have done well with the Isaac Smith trade and maybe we could do the same with someone like Gaff who would help address a glaring weakness in our side.
Matt Crouch is another player maybe worth considering as he seems out of favour at the Crows.


Gaff i would take . Ideal player with his great run not to mention his vast experience . Crouch can find the footy but shit he is slow . Not for me .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2022
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
kezza wrote:
I am still trying to understand the thinking behind drafting Hayes.
Surely we had more pressing needs such as a ruck/forward/defender type player.
Sounds like the club will likely go to the draft this year and not go for any big name recruits which is probably a good decision given we have to re-sign Harry and Charlie.


Well I think wing is the one part of the ground we have sub-par personnel.
So we are trying anything to unearth a good wing.
Not sure Hayes is the answer though.
His kicking was terrible the other night.


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