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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:23 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Mickstar wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley


It’s just sad that Voss was the big name


Why ?


Yeah, I don't get it.

Voss seems to be what we need.

I'd like to see what we produce after 1/4 season to see what the game polan is, but at this stage of his tenure its obvious that the contest is very important addition to the game plan; something that has been missing for....a long long time ... with a lot of excuses ... young bodies etc.

Cometh the hour....

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:40 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Voss wasn't hired because of his name.

He was hired because our previous coaches weren't getting the job done, and he has had a long apprenticeship where he has learned a few things and is trying again.

Brett ratten was coaching after voss lost his job at Brisbane andRatten got his second chance first and as it turns out, too soon.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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For us to successful some of these big name players have to harden up
If they can’t to the magoos
Hasn’t happened for a long time


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley

Only insofar as they each had skills that were seen as complementary and the club wanted them both as a team.
Ultimately Voss and his leadership/culture bias was seen as the priority.
Club was going hard for Kingsley to be right hand man right up until he said "no" for the final time, which was the day Hansen was then announced.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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jezzarules wrote:
keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley

Only insofar as they each had skills that were seen as complementary and the club wanted them both as a team.
Ultimately Voss and his leadership/culture bias was seen as the priority.
Club was going hard for Kingsley to be right hand man right up until he said "no" for the final time, which was the day Hansen was then announced.


Yeah , and i reckon Hansen will be the surprise packet . Will compliment Voss beautifully . A real thinker .

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:07 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley

Only insofar as they each had skills that were seen as complementary and the club wanted them both as a team.
Ultimately Voss and his leadership/culture bias was seen as the priority.
Club was going hard for Kingsley to be right hand man right up until he said "no" for the final time, which was the day Hansen was then announced.


Yeah , and i reckon Hansen will be the surprise packet . Will compliment Voss beautifully . A real thinker .


:thumbsup:

This appointment can't be undersetimated.

I bet he was paid handsomely even during covid cuts, and /or the prospect of coaching a team on the rise under Vossy would be tantallsing.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:19 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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As long as we win


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:16 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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carntheblues wrote:
As long as we win


No such thing as a sure thing Carna , but i reckon with the new hierarchy we are giving ourselves a better chance of putting runs on the board . Baby steps .

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:44 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Mickstar wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
As long as we win


No such thing as a sure thing Carna , but i reckon with the new hierarchy we are giving ourselves a better chance of putting runs on the board . Baby steps .

As long as we get goals on the board too. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:52 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2472
I'm hoping that we are fair but ruthless in terms of demanding performance on the field.
Fair - giving players the best chance to succeed which may mean picking them with solid VFL form (not on potential), or it may be giving them a run of 3 or 4 matches to show something; might be horses for courses in terms of giving them a fair go.
And the other caveat is probably allowing some time to get the game plan, although I think the no.1 'game plan' criteria will be going in hard (but hopefully not the usual 4 players all going in and none off the contest).

The biggest win last year was that Harry really stepped up.
This year, it will be huge if McGovern and Dow can step up - it will make a massive difference to our performance and what we need to further build the team.
It will also be great if Marchbank can get back on the park and in reasonable form (I'd not be expecting too much of him this year beyond 'on the park' and 'pulling his weight' - but does not need to be a star this year, for mine).
The bonus will be TDK stepping up, although I'd expect next year to be his big leap; this year I'd want to see more consistent performances and glimpses of star power.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:01 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
My best 22 for Round 1 at Feb 1 2022,
based on Training, Injury and Hope/Preference:

Best 22 out injured: Marchbank (3rd tall), Stocker (Small Defender), Cuningham (HHF)
Would push out Plowman, OBrien and Kennedy

B: Docherty Weitering Kemp
HB: Saad McDonald Williams

R: Pittonet Cripps Walsh
C: Cerra Hewett Martin

HF: Honey C.Curnow Philp
F: Silvagni McKay Fisher

Interchange:

Plowman ...... possibly McGovern (7th Defender)
Ed Curnow
OBrien for the wing free up Martin.
DeKoning (mixing it up with Pittonet and Silvagni)

Kennedy (23rd) .... possibly Dow depends if speed or grunt is needed more in the mix.

2 rucks is a must in my books with deKonning taking the 2nd ruck for development and mismatch when forward.
Silvagni is Mr Fix it, forward or mid. Don't like him in the ruck against best rucks.
Hewett has pushed Kennedy out to share grunt work with Cripps
Owies borderline with Fisher for small forward.
Newman always the next in line for medium defender role

I have enough faith in Kemp to deliver with his height, marking, athleticism and speed.
I've been waiting for the return of Philp from injury to add express pace and aggressive tackling along with Honey in forwardline. This releases Martin to a wing/mid/fwd role.

Durdin (ditto Owies comment), Carroll, Setterfield making their case in next 2 months.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:38 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Very interesting Bondi that you've gone with Kemp (ahead of Plowman?) McDonald (ahead of McGovern) and Philp (ahead of Ed?) in the starting line up.
Always good to hear your thinking.
I don't mind Martin on the wing as a good link man and great kick into the forward line. But I do like his forward pressure and ability to float in between the play in front of goal. I'd probably have him in the forward line ahead of Philp (until I see more of Philp) and rather put someone else on the wing. I'd also find room for Dow (I still have faith :-)).


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:34 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
17th Premiership wrote:
Very interesting Bondi that you've gone with Kemp (ahead of Plowman?) McDonald (ahead of McGovern) and Philp (ahead of Ed?) in the starting line up.
Always good to hear your thinking.
I don't mind Martin on the wing as a good link man and great kick into the forward line. But I do like his forward pressure and ability to float in between the play in front of goal. I'd probably have him in the forward line ahead of Philp (until I see more of Philp) and rather put someone else on the wing. I'd also find room for Dow (I still have faith :-)).



Gov is no KPD at 190 cm. KPF's are not getting smaller and 200cm is now normal to see. We need strong one on ones who can also run. Oscar and Weitering seem to be the only 2 standing, and Kemp is too inexperienced to expect him to shine in that role in what may be his first full year. Whilst I am expecting 23yo Young and 21yo Kemp to build their game and physique to challenge Oscar for the KPD role, I'm not writing off Oscar who turns 26yo next month. He may be entering the best years of his career. People forget how he was thrust into a KPD role from 19yo in a weak Dees team that did not protect their defenders (familiar?).

I'm OK with Plowman as a lockdown 3rd tall because I don't think the ball will be going into the defense like it did last few years, but have Marchbank, ahead of Plow, as my first choice hands down IF fit. So the 3rd tall is up for grabs whilst Marchy isn't fit. I also see Marchy as a "Mr Fix it" with his athleticism (I look at Marchy and think Southby without that thumping kick), I also see a bit of Sexton in him too, but Marchy is more athletic in my eyes, and if Kemp, Gov, Plow or Young make the 3rd tall their position good luck. Kemp is the best physical specimen (height/weight/mobility combo) of the lot, and love how he takes on the game like a midfielder. A couple mates, who have attended sim games, plus Terry (BA), and Heath (MBH) and Tom (PT) suggest Kemp has been impressive so far this preseason. So he's my 3rd tall...at this stage.

We are still 6 weeks away from first team selection for 2022, and anything can happen (including injury and illness).

Martin gets crucified by some supporters, mainly because of their expectation based on his pay packet. Forget about Draft pick and pay packet, they are on our list and its a new coaching regime looking at the list as a clean slate. None of the coaching staff have made promises to anyone on the list. Martin is an elite runner. He's a high HF who runs to the backline to provide support and outlet and runs back. When the game is going our way and he's stationed as a forward he kicks goals. Problem is our players haven't used him when he presents, and when he's forward his kicking leg has been taxed and the impact on accuracy shows. He is GOLD and as a wingman he will drift forward. When Stocker gets back in I'd love to see us have the luxury of playing Docherty and Martin on the wings.

I have aleady seen enough of Philp in the 2020 preseason games and his first 2 games. His tackling (forward pressure ) is elite. He has elite speed, express, and he can play wing when he gets more miles in his legs, and he can kick long and straight. I love what Honey and Philp, and Cuningham when fit can bring to that forward line with their speed.

I still have faith in Dow, but he needs to find that desperation in his defensive game imo...to chase hard and put pressure. he has the speed to close down opponents with the ball but he's a bit of a watcher. he MAY BE great for us one day. Not at the minute imo.

Ed Curnow is at the end of his career and I don't see Ed as a HF. I see Ed as the long distance runner, like OBrien, who will continue to be important whilst interchange rules head towards smaller number of rotations. We need players who can keep running for 4 quarters, Ed is one. Notice I don't drop him if we have a full list to choose from (including Marchy Stocker & Cuningham).

I can see Ed as the Tagger. The bloke who will give his all to close down the Lachie Neale's, Dusty's, Kelly's...ball magnets... by blocking and being irritating and sticking to them whilst on the ball, and he then can run his arse forward and make them accountable when we get the ball, which I expect a lot more of this year, with our possession game.

I expect Dow or even OBrien to try and overtake him, but feel next year we will attract another great Trade or two, and again in 2024, so spots are as rare as hens teeth from 2022 on.

This year there's not only pressure for spots in the 22, there's pressure to hold onto spots on the list.

We don't have many old players left on our list. We only have Ed who turns 34yo this year. Then as far as oldies are concerned (closest to retirement stage) are Docherty and Saad who turn 29yo this year, and neither of those are close to retiring, especially Saad.

So the spotlight is in the young to perform or they join the aging Newnes, Newmans, Plowmans and McGoverns who turn 27, 28 this year and are obviously vulnerable being taken over by the young. No one's safe as houses to be selected week in week out this year, except the top 10 players.

Carlton is the place to be. Our time for sustained success has come. VOSS.

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:42 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Premiership!

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:57 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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The love for Kemp ahead of Plowman is a bit surprising. Last I checked Kemp had done hardly a thing.

And is Docherty actually in the frame for R1? Thatd be awesome if the case.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:08 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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Mickstar wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley


It’s just sad that Voss was the big name


Why ?


When I think of big name coaches Voss is not one that springs to mind.

Given we were in the hunt for Clarko, Voss was a bit underwhelming.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:54 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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DesEnglish wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
keogh wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
Bolton and Teague were big names?

Yes your correct
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley


It’s just sad that Voss was the big name


Why ?


When I think of big name coaches Voss is not one that springs to mind.

Given we were in the hunt for Clarko, Voss was a bit underwhelming.


OK , i see where you are coming from Des . Reckon its gonna be a blessing in disguise .

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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:40 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2481
Not always but after going with Bolton and Teague the club was always going for Voss over Kingsley[/quote]

It’s just sad that Voss was the big name[/quote]

Why ?[/quote]

When I think of big name coaches Voss is not one that springs to mind.

Given we were in the hunt for Clarko, Voss was a bit underwhelming.[/quote]

OK , i see where you are coming from Des . Reckon its gonna be a blessing in disguise .[/quote]

I’m not putting $h!+ on him.

I hope he becomes the greatest coach in any sport in history and becomes a big name in his own right.


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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DesEnglish wrote:
I hope he becomes the greatest coach in any sport in history and becomes a big name in his own right.
When i was reading this thread.... this is what I was thinking!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2022 Best 22
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:53 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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GMCbris wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
I hope he becomes the greatest coach in any sport in history and becomes a big name in his own right.
When i was reading this thread.... this is what I was thinking!!


Good on ya Des ............. reckon ya put that well . Thinkin ' about it , who in there right mind wouldn't have doubts and misgivings . But now that the dust has settled its onwards and upwards .

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