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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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RickJ wrote:
This slingshot chaos, turn it over in the opposition F50 and run like hell breaking lines and chipping into the corridor while all your forward run and spread forward of the ball, seems to be the tactic that’s worked for them. That sense of belief they have now that this works gives them supreme confidence and makes opposition sides panic because they know Collingwood are coming at them. Struggled to do it against Sydney cramped on the small SCG and because a Sydney are hardened and never panic. Probably might struggle at Marvel

I don’t think more psychologists are the answer. All teams have a bucketload of well-being and mental health people.

I think situational drills done repetitively so that given scenario A we go to routine B Drill enough and even dumb players don’t have to rely on instinct. That’s why teams like Geelong whose players have played together for so many years have the edge. You can see from our game against them they just work together like clockwork. It was all so automatic.

Let’s just hope Collingwood go out in straight sets. cauliflower



Agree with your points but have to say MCG is only 5m longer and wider than the SCG since 2007.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:04 pm 
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bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
Voss has talked repeatedly about adding more layers to the game plan

Throughout the season, the Blues showed they could score from a dominant stoppage game and through cohesive ball movement, but losing five games in the final six matches showed it did not always stand up under pressure.

As David King showed on Fox Footy’s The First Crack, the Blues didn’t have a fat-side winger defending hard enough deep to allow Jacob Weitering to charge at Jamie Elliott.

They are small-margin wins that can save you games.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/wreck-it-ralph-where-carlton-went-wrong-and-what-it-needs-to-be-a-genuine-contender/news-story/7f316b2e2cecb6a3c01aef8af519b66d

Our wings failed us miserably: LOB, Setterfield, Newnes, Cottrell. Of all those 4 I'd stick with Cottrell, he has good endurance plus raw speed, but he needs to learn more about the craft of a wingman.

Maybe Cerra and Docherty wax a wing....or take one each? LOB and Cotts have engines, but we need more than just engines.
Selling Carroll very short, as bottom age as they come. Just ran out of gas after a huge pre season ans start to the year.

Unless you see him purely playing midfield in time?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I thought Carroll looked very impressive in his first game at senior level.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Me too got tired after a few games
A good prospect with Motlop Kemp Durdin all should improve significantly


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I just hope Voss develops a few more options going I50 than bombing it to Harry & Charlie.

I'd like to believe TDK will only get better over the summer: with his rucking and goal kicking giving us another option.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:34 am 
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John James

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Blue Vain wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
We picked the wrong coach.


Who should we have chosen?

I understand people are pissed and frustrated but we won more games than we lost and we kicked more goals than we conceded after being rubbish for 20+ years.
We lost our round 22 game to miss the finals by 1 point. With 60% of our midfield sitting in the stands and half the team banged up.
Anyone who doesn't think Michael Voss has done a remarkable job making this club relevant again is taking the piss.


agree.

match day tactics need to be improved. he can get assistance with that.standing at the bench seems to work better for him. player on-field discipline and footy IQ/learning needs to improve (proactive education in many facets of the game is required not just “we’ll review it [the loss] pretty hard and the boys will be looking forward to making amends next week”)

i read a book called Confidence written by one of those American business type writers who studied major league sport clubs that has seen major success (“dynasties”) and major failure and interviewed coaches that had turned teams around.

turning clubs around from a long history of failure to become the best in their league is no simple task and there’s never been a formula for it. the point of this “Confidence” book was to try and understand how successful teams become so successful, and the author identifies confidence as an essential, or barometer type of quality. and it’s elusive. all the coaches she spoke to and asked about worked their own magic in there own way.

while there’s trends and components in common, and clubs watch each other closely, and beg/borrow/steal
from each other, each club is unique in its cultural deficits and it’s leadership deficits. culture eats strategy for breakfast, as they say
in the progressive change making business.




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:44 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Am I allowed to be a little nervous as he enters his first trade period?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:46 am 
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Bruce Doull
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DesEnglish wrote:
Am I allowed to be a little nervous as he enters his first trade period?


Get Fev!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:04 am 
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John James

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bondiblue wrote:
I just hope Voss develops a few more options going I50 than bombing it to Harry & Charlie.

I'd like to believe TDK will only get better over the summer: with his rucking and goal kicking giving us another option.


agree. our forward entry is i think the major problem to be solved for next season. i’m going to write a longer post about this one day.

Harry and Charlie both have a coleman medal and H ranked pretty high to Charlie this year. but if you look at them on the accuracy table for goal kicking on footy wire they are way, way, way down the rankings. part of that is all this play on to be instinctive for Charlie and snapping around the corner from 45 meters out on any angle including straight in front.

but it’s also something else. it’s a really bad forward entry system that doesn’t see H and charles getting separation on opponents when they lead often enough (and don’t get me started about us kicking to a standing contest bw motlop or durdin against one or two opponents who is/are one or two feet taller on them). and part of it is them so often leading into the pockets. part of the reason collingwood are so efficient in front of goal is they are marking it 10-30 meters on zero to easy angles a lot of the time. or alway have another loosy out the back with a straighter kick at goal on a fast break.

it’s also no Matt Clappe (187cm 89kh) type talls but not tallest forwards to offer up option and take a good tall defender out of the contest for Charlie and H. perhaps Jsos or TDK can play this role in time to come but i don’t see either of them kicking 31 goals and getting 20+ possessions a game as a pure forward in a season just yet. TDK is built more like a Brad Pearce kind of player, can still be an effective tall forward with development, not sure he will ever be a first pick ruckman in our next premiership contesting team. i’d love to be proved wrong about tdk as an elite ruckman in the AFL towelling the likes of Gawn and Grundy.

which leads to the second thing on my list, we haven’t had three good rucks at the club including one top four ruck since Matthew Allen (Kruizer was amazing at his best but he couldn’t string it together for a whole season).


Collingwood for example have a legend in Grundy but even when he’s been out Cameron and Cox are serviceable. even when goldstein, witt’s or Obrien has betten Cameron, between the two of them, Coxs and Cameron have
won more hit outs than the two opposing rucks. (not in the adelaide game thoug where o’brien and himmlenerg scored 28 & 5 to grundy and cameron’s 29 & 1).

i think that is something that keeps collingwood in games for longer and not getting blown away before the fourth quarter and is part of their team defence approach. we can’t say that about our any of the ruck combos we ran with this year — mostly disappointing.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Clape

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Pearce_(footballer)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:38 am 
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Geoff Southby
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diesel95 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I just hope Voss develops a few more options going I50 than bombing it to Harry & Charlie.

I'd like to believe TDK will only get better over the summer: with his rucking and goal kicking giving us another option.


agree. our forward entry is i think the major problem to be solved for next season. i’m going to write a longer post about this one day.

Harry and Charlie both have a coleman medal and H ranked pretty high to Charlie this year. but if you look at them on the accuracy table for goal kicking on footy wire they are way, way, way down the rankings. part of that is all this play on to be instinctive for Charlie and snapping around the corner from 45 meters out on any angle including straight in front.

but it’s also something else. it’s a really bad forward entry system that doesn’t see H and charles getting separation on opponents when they lead often enough (and don’t get me started about us kicking to a standing contest bw motlop or durdin against one or two opponents who is/are one or two feet taller on them). and part of it is them so often leading into the pockets. part of the reason collingwood are so efficient in front of goal is they are marking it 10-30 meters on zero to easy angles a lot of the time. or alway have another loosy out the back with a straighter kick at goal on a fast break.

it’s also no Matt Clappe (187cm 89kh) type talls but not tallest forwards to offer up option and take a good tall defender out of the contest for Charlie and H. perhaps Jsos or TDK can play this role in time to come but i don’t see either of them kicking 31 goals and getting 20+ possessions a game as a pure forward in a season just yet. TDK is built more like a Brad Pearce kind of player, can still be an effective tall forward with development, not sure he will ever be a first pick ruckman in our next premiership contesting team. i’d love to be proved wrong about tdk as an elite ruckman in the AFL towelling the likes of Gawn and Grundy.

which leads to the second thing on my list, we haven’t had three good rucks at the club including one top four ruck since Matthew Allen (Kruizer was amazing at his best but he couldn’t string it together for a whole season).


Collingwood for example have a legend in Grundy but even when he’s been out Cameron and Cox are serviceable. even when goldstein, witt’s or Obrien has betten Cameron, between the two of them, Coxs and Cameron have
won more hit outs than the two opposing rucks. (not in the adelaide game thoug where o’brien and himmlenerg scored 28 & 5 to grundy and cameron’s 29 & 1).

i think that is something that keeps collingwood in games for longer and not getting blown away before the fourth quarter and is part of their team defence approach. we can’t say that about our any of the ruck combos we ran with this year — mostly disappointing.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Clape

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Pearce_(footballer)

Good stuff Deez .................Clape and Pearce . Couple of beauties there . Was there a better sight in footy than Brad Pearce getting on a long run and draining the from beyond fifty ? i mean you could talk about our rucks and our wingman but jeez a third striker in the forward line would be awesome wouldn't it . Cant see one there yet unfortunately . Perhaps Honey but thats it . Maybe Jack coz he was playing that link role pretty well in the early part of the season .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Lace Out wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
Voss has talked repeatedly about adding more layers to the game plan

Throughout the season, the Blues showed they could score from a dominant stoppage game and through cohesive ball movement, but losing five games in the final six matches showed it did not always stand up under pressure.

As David King showed on Fox Footy’s The First Crack, the Blues didn’t have a fat-side winger defending hard enough deep to allow Jacob Weitering to charge at Jamie Elliott.

They are small-margin wins that can save you games.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/wreck-it-ralph-where-carlton-went-wrong-and-what-it-needs-to-be-a-genuine-contender/news-story/7f316b2e2cecb6a3c01aef8af519b66d

Our wings failed us miserably: LOB, Setterfield, Newnes, Cottrell. Of all those 4 I'd stick with Cottrell, he has good endurance plus raw speed, but he needs to learn more about the craft of a wingman.

Maybe Cerra and Docherty wax a wing....or take one each? LOB and Cotts have engines, but we need more than just engines.
Selling Carroll very short, as bottom age as they come. Just ran out of gas after a huge pre season ans start to the year.

Unless you see him purely playing midfield in time?

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Carroll had a really good preseason (surprisingly for a first year) as an inside mid.
He played really well in the VFL, as an inside mid.
I know that he spent time on the wing at times, but he was rotating in the guts.
Hence, I see him as a strong 6 foot mid.

Perhaps it was fatigue that got to him in the AFL, and at the time he was on a wing.
Maybe a strong preseason may help him cement a wing in the preseason.
Potential Plus. Can find the ball, and generally a good kick (when not fatigued).
He turns 20yo on the 20th December.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:41 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


A little ahead of ourselves ? we got a mile ahead of ourselves . Exhibit A the Saints game .

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Exhibit B….

me….!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Mickstar wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


A little ahead of ourselves ? we got a mile ahead of ourselves . Exhibit A the Saints game .



If that day I recall we were so far ahead of ourselves we were in either Las Vegas or Phuket!!!

:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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AGRO wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


A little ahead of ourselves ? we got a mile ahead of ourselves . Exhibit A the Saints game .



If that day I recall we were so far ahead of ourselves we were in either Las Vegas or Phuket!!!

:lol:


Yeah , that was the " Something aint right in Denmark " day .

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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AGRO wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


A little ahead of ourselves ? we got a mile ahead of ourselves . Exhibit A the Saints game .



If that day I recall we were so far ahead of ourselves we were in either Las Vegas or Phuket!!!

:lol:
And in the end we all went "phuk et"...lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:22 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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bondiblue wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
Voss has talked repeatedly about adding more layers to the game plan

Throughout the season, the Blues showed they could score from a dominant stoppage game and through cohesive ball movement, but losing five games in the final six matches showed it did not always stand up under pressure.

As David King showed on Fox Footy’s The First Crack, the Blues didn’t have a fat-side winger defending hard enough deep to allow Jacob Weitering to charge at Jamie Elliott.

They are small-margin wins that can save you games.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/wreck-it-ralph-where-carlton-went-wrong-and-what-it-needs-to-be-a-genuine-contender/news-story/7f316b2e2cecb6a3c01aef8af519b66d

Our wings failed us miserably: LOB, Setterfield, Newnes, Cottrell. Of all those 4 I'd stick with Cottrell, he has good endurance plus raw speed, but he needs to learn more about the craft of a wingman.

Maybe Cerra and Docherty wax a wing....or take one each? LOB and Cotts have engines, but we need more than just engines.
Selling Carroll very short, as bottom age as they come. Just ran out of gas after a huge pre season ans start to the year.

Unless you see him purely playing midfield in time?

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


Carroll had a really good preseason (surprisingly for a first year) as an inside mid.
He played really well in the VFL, as an inside mid.
I know that he spent time on the wing at times, but he was rotating in the guts.
Hence, I see him as a strong 6 foot mid.

Perhaps it was fatigue that got to him in the AFL, and at the time he was on a wing.
Maybe a strong preseason may help him cement a wing in the preseason.
Potential Plus. Can find the ball, and generally a good kick (when not fatigued).
He turns 20yo on the 20th December.
I think once he has another pre season or 2 he'll be a more consistent player.

At 188cm, or 6'2, he's a nice size and with an extra 6-8 kgs he'll be more confident in his body.

Looking forward to his development as a player.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


That’s not positive reinforcement though. :razz:
Our boys would also start sweating come midseason break just thinking about this year.........................I think I’m broken.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Stefchook wrote:
I hope that if we start next year well that the coach keeps reminding the players about how this year ended and to just keep banking the wins. I know you can't always be at maximum intensity, but hard not to believe that the players got a little ahead of themselves when things were going well. Just imagine if we'd played like we did against Melbourne and Collingwood against other teams like Adelaide and St Kilda and Gold Coast.


Having most of the players fit and firing, would have, and will, put pressure on spots in the team.

I think complacency started midway in the season, not Gold Coast in round 4. IIRC, there was a flu like virus that went through the club against GCS, we lost Cripps in the 1st Qtr, whilst we also had an inexperienced ruck TDK take Pitto's role for first time as No 1 Kahuna vs Witts, who was out, along with Oscar, Gov, Marchy, Hewett was under a cloud, and Vossy was still working out the wings...with LOB dropped after the GCS game, along with Plow, Fogarty and Boyd.

It was the Adelaide game we failed to fire a shot, and the first quarter of the Saints and Tigers games for mine which were the disappointments, when the wheels started to loosen before falling off. Other games we coulda, shoulda...Pies twice,

If we can get stronger and fitter, and handle niggles better, and find the addition of an Acres or Sholl improve the wing-field group, from pressure on spots or class, we might see the performance of Fisher, Cottrell, LOB, Setterfield, maybe Carroll, or Philp on the wing develop with it...to the point we have a plethora of wing men. The latter group are still young.

FWIW, my best 23 next year has Cerra and Docherty on the wings, but that's if every player is fit and available for selection.

I don't think we are as far off from Top 4, let alone Finals, as some some shell shocked Carlton fans are.

Hey, I'm still flat following those 2 losses, especially the last one, but believe TDK will have his breakthrough year next year.

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