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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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CK95 wrote:
I am at a total voss as to what we can do

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


Oh dear.
Voss can ve do?
Ve are kaput.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 9:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:05 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:08 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.



I actually think our footy-dumb players would be better suited to a chaos ball style of game than anything else.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:08 am 
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Bruce Doull
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sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:12 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Wojee wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......

We were moving the ball fairly fast against Sydney.
Not too much lateral dithering
But the delivery to and receipt by forwards let us down

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:17 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
Wojee wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......


I’d rather see that than what I saw in Friday night.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 1:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Buckley says it is not a coaching issue.
Of course he would say that.
He says it is because of Harry and Charlie.
Of course they carry a fair bit of the blame for Fri night.
But equally do the coaches not play a role in kicking skills?
At the end of the day it is coaches who cop it in the neck.
Maybe Nathan has forgotten that.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:02 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Paddycripps wrote:
Buckley says it is not a coaching issue.
Of course he would say that.
He says it is because of Harry and Charlie.
Of course they carry a fair bit of the blame for Fri night.
But equally do the coaches not play a role in kicking skills?
At the end of the day it is coaches who cop it in the neck.
Maybe Nathan has forgotten that.


If Nathan was a good coach he'd still be a coach.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
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Paddycripps wrote:
Buckley says it is not a coaching issue.
Of course he would say that.
He says it is because of Harry and Charlie.
Of course they carry a fair bit of the blame for Fri night.
But equally do the coaches not play a role in kicking skills?
At the end of the day it is coaches who cop it in the neck.
Maybe Nathan has forgotten that.



Harry & Charlie can blame their kicking skills on the coaches.

These guys have to be held to account for their set shot kicking.

I dont blame Vossy one bit for their kicking woes. They're full time professionals.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Mon May 29, 2023 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Agree these guys cost us the game with 1.6 and Charlie also kicked into the man on the mark 15 metres out from goal

Shocking display of ineptitude by 2 Coleman meadalists

They are being paid to kick goals 1.6 between them is horrendous and a coach killer

Were largely not difficult shots either
Get professional or otherwise don’t stick your hand out for the considerable money you are on


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:23 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Sakc


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Buckley says it is not a coaching issue.
Of course he would say that.
He says it is because of Harry and Charlie.
Of course they carry a fair bit of the blame for Fri night.
But equally do the coaches not play a role in kicking skills?
At the end of the day it is coaches who cop it in the neck.
Maybe Nathan has forgotten that.



Harry & Charlie can blame their kicking skills on the coaches.

These guys have to be held to account for their set shot kicking.

I dont blame Vossy one bit for their kicking woes. They're full time professionals.


The coaches are full time professionals too.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 4666
Paddycripps wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Buckley says it is not a coaching issue.
Of course he would say that.
He says it is because of Harry and Charlie.
Of course they carry a fair bit of the blame for Fri night.
But equally do the coaches not play a role in kicking skills?
At the end of the day it is coaches who cop it in the neck.
Maybe Nathan has forgotten that.



Harry & Charlie can blame their kicking skills on the coaches.

These guys have to be held to account for their set shot kicking.

I dont blame Vossy one bit for their kicking woes. They're full time professionals.




The coaches are full time professionals too.


kicking is confidence driven. our group look lost & confused. they're being told to forgo natural instinct (of run and h/pass or kick), and repalce with mark, stop, assess kick long to contests. that's all on coaching.

our players can hit targets. playing fast can aid this (less time to think) and for some operating at pace & with speed it's easier to kick and hit targets. i think our woes are entirely down to coaching.


Rocca improved Casboult's kicking - why hasn't someone been employed to help our lot?

Even matthew lloyd has looked at harry's kicking and said it's a pretty easy fix (and then showed us how), and nowhere near as complicated to fix as Buddy's early career kicking technique.


Last edited by Braithy on Mon May 29, 2023 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:07 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:05 pm
Posts: 337
Wojee wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......


This haha, we have too many deplorable ball users. Were going nowhere until we find better users. Martin and Williams were recruited to fill holes and are never around sadly.

I hope we can find the missing pieces. We have a A grade talent through the core some which have been dreadful this year. But we have too many Cminus players and no depth


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:07 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:05 pm
Posts: 337
Wojee wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......


This haha, we have too many deplorable ball users. Were going nowhere until we find better users. Martin and Williams were recruited to fill holes and are never around sadly.

I hope we can find the missing pieces. We have a A grade talent through the core some which have been dreadful this year. But we have too many Cminus players and no depth


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
Rocky Henderson wrote:
Wojee wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Wojee wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
see I disagree, transplant this game plan onto Collingwood (for example) and there run of wins would evaporate, in fact I'd back us to beat them as long as we were playing some semblance of a game that from the opening bounce included urgency in all aspects of football.


Transplant Collingwood's gameplan onto this group of players and it'd fail just as hard as whatever it is they're doing now.


At least it would be better to watch, and the players might even start to enjoy themselves in parts of games.

What’s the point in trying to play an ultra defensive game if your players neither have the discipline to execute nor the strength to hold tackles?


Be amazing to watch a gameplan based on fast ball movement and players surging forward executed with handballs at feet and kicks floating over heads......


This haha, we have too many deplorable ball users. Were going nowhere until we find better users. Martin and Williams were recruited to fill holes and are never around sadly.

I hope we can find the missing pieces. We have a A grade talent through the core some which have been dreadful this year. But we have too many Cminus players and no depth


And yet at the start of the season everyone was celebrating our depth! :eek:
What's changed?


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Nathan Buckley - just not worth listening too and more importantly every time he speaks, he shows why he failed.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 6:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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sorry but apart from the weekend Curnow has been very good (elite?) at set shots this year - but pressure is building on him cos if he fails we're [REDACTED] (not player but coaching).
Harry's been [REDACTED] for a while (so player and coaching)

Also wouldn't it be nice (beachboys are in my head cos right now I wish it was @#$%&! summer!) if we had a policy of present present present cos even if you are not used it opens space

and coupled with that

take the best option not the "best" player

oh and presenting is not standing still waving your hands or standing at the back of the pack wanting to take a @#$%&! screamer.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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bondiblue wrote:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-18/inside-the-game-cody-and-sean-voss-and-carlton-closing-the-gaps/101075908

More Voss insights from Aunty.

Some good graphs for the statisticians to admire.

Here's a couple snippets....

Quote:
Fixing those structural defensive issues was a critical issue for Voss, but perhaps not the only one.

Overall, the signs seem positive for Carlton so far this year.

Carlton are setting up more cautiously at contests and not racing ahead prematurely.

Most prominently, the Blues seem to be defending the counter-attack more effectively.

This has included deploying the spare defenders able to assist in closing down those high-value, one-on-one opportunities.

It has taken away a little bit of the sting of their attack from turnovers but, in turn, they can stop opponents from putting up cricket scores.


Quote:
It's not just the defence that has improved so far this year.

Voss — as one of the most-damaging clearance players of his era — has an innate eye on not only how to win the hard ball but also how to make it useful.

At Port Adelaide, he helped to develop the Power group into one of the strongest in the competition, one that focused on both sides of the ball.

This strength has transferred over to the Blues' early season form.

So far this year, Carlton has had one of the most-damaging clearance set-ups of any team in the competition.


The quoted post above was made on May 18 last year. A year is a long time in football. Go back to the early part of this thread and the general vibe is how great Voss is.

What has changed? Why has it changed?

I'm numb to the thought of whether it's right to sakc Voss or keep him. I just don't care, or at least can't form an opinion with any clarity. It's not that I don't care about the club, I defintley do. But supporting your footy club means that's always diificult to rationalise.

Why is sacking Voss the answer? Why was sacking Teague, Bolton, Malthouse, Ratten, the answer? Clearly sacking the coach hasn't been a long term solution.

We need to do something different.

The media attention can't be good for the club, the coach or the players. It's great to be a at a big club like us when it's going well, but it must totally suck when it's going poorly.

How is Harry supposed to get his mind clear if he just keeps following the same process he has been all year? We know he can kick goals regularly. We know the team can play better. Something clearly isn't right.

I'm not the person to find the answer, but I think we need to do something radically different, even if it might sound totally daft. Spend a night serving at homeless shelter or something, or train in our pyjamas all week, circle up for an honesty session, they need something different to cut through all the crap and find a mental release.

And, clearly, stuffed if I know what it is, but the coach and the players need an outlet. This is where Cook should be earning his money. Finding a way to lead the footy department through this mess we're in.

But as to sakcing Voss… what's the point?! Maybe churning thrugh coaches is the answer, but it's not been a great solution since Wayne Brittain was given the arse has it!

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