TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Who survives

The thing with Assistant Coaches - how would any of us know?

One thing I'd love to know is: why do people say that the off field politicking at board level affects on-field performance?

That may be true if senior coach and/or line coaches are no good or not liked, but wtf does a professional AFL footballer care what goes on at board level?

How does them knowing that the board is a harmonious unit allow them to perform better? How does them knowing the big-dogs are barking at each other impact their performance when they step over the white line?

Heavs wrote:

The thing with Assistant Coaches - how would any of us know?

And yet.....................on a public forum we all have opinions :lol:

Heavs that's why I have gone the 100% cop out. I have no idea of their skills sets. Thus the Winner must have a HUGE Voice across all positions, not just with the Assistant Coaches. The Coach must be hand in glove with the GMF and the CEO.

Those filling positions must have absolute Integrity, People Skills, Acumen for the Job and above all Footy Street Smarts.

We know it is a given the Coach will select his own Coaching team but it is those above that concern me. We honestly need people that aren't afraid for their position/job. No person can work well if they are forever looking over their shoulders waiting for the 'Don't Come Monday' chat.
I saw plenty of folk from all over the AFL constantly making sure they have a Plan B and C and D. Job security in the AFL leaves alot to be desired. Sometimes I got the impression people spent more time planning their next move, than concentrating on the job at hand.

Regards Cazzesman

I think it's a great question and the "team" would dictate who I want to coach. Not the figurehead.
I would not be interested in giving Clarko or Ross the job without information on who they will bring to fill the supporting roles and most importantly, how they will interact with and empower them. My experience with AFL coaches is the system sucks the innovation and dare out of them.

Many of the recent successful coaches come in with new or unorthodox strategies or they are successful for being forced to implement them. Some of the developing coaches coming up through the NAB league are creative, innovative and risk takers. But the elite level is too resistant to utilise their skillset. They are expected to conform instead of challenge.
Clarkson came in with a radical strategy and Hawthorn had the guts to go on the ride with him. Hardwick was forced to change strategy because of injury and list structure. No available tall forwards turned their game plan upside down. Would Hardwick be a premiership coach had that not occurred? I have my doubts.

How many of our coaches are victims of the system? Looking at the past, Denis Pagan left Carlton and a year or so later he was appointed coach of TAC club Northern Knights.
He lasted 1 year. Why? Because he had become a model example of the system. He refused to adapt. He refused to accept feedback. He refused to view innovation and new ideas.

The valuable coaches are those with ideas. They think outside the square. Perhaps 90% of their ideas are impractical but the other 10% could be gold. Caracella comes to mind. He may never be a senior coach but he gives me the impression that he is an innovator. I hated Sheedy but he is another perfect example. Some crazy ideas but he never failed to challenge, innovate, suggest and try. Any coach who doesn't embrace innovation or cannot decipher, dissect and grasp the nuggets of gold will put themselves behind the 8 ball.
That's why I'm reluctant to take seasoned AFL coaches who have been in the system many years. Unless they have an elite team and can create an environment that embraces innovation, ideas and has a vision for how the game can be played. Not how it has been played.

So that is the challenge. Select a coach that can be challenged and is not threatened by innovators. Select a team with a great understanding of the game but a willingness to value new ideas. The innovator and those who can harness his ideas and implement them are the future.

Without knowing the incumbents, it's guesswork. But that's the criteria I'd want.

CEO: Ian Prendergast
CCO & General Counsel: Cleaver Greene
Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer
Director of Football: Brad Scott
Head Coach: Ross Lyon
Forwards: David Teague
Backs: Dale Amos
Midfield: Luke Power
Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott
VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe
Development Coach: Eddie Betts
Development Coach: Brendon Goddard

Crusader wrote:

Kudos Crusader for having the 'lads' to give it a crack.

The Brad Scott one is interesting. Not sure I am a fan of his but it is fair to say he also had the 'lads' to call it as he saw it with the Roo's and spoke up. Got to give him credit for that. :thumbsup:

Like the Hickmont vibe.

Regards Cazzesman

Cazzesman wrote:

Crusader wrote:

Like the Hickmont vibe.

Regards Cazzesman

Not a big Brad Scott fan either

Author:	Cazzesman [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:47 am ]
Post subject:	Who survives - Who Replaces
Captain Obvious states Teaghey is being replaced.........So? What about the rest? Move the Magnets. Put down some names and tell us all why. Purely for Historical reasons of course. Keogh, we don't want to hear in 2024 what you would have done in hindsight. If you are not going to man up now, don't reply. Liddle - If the review is damning about infighting below his office then the buck stops with him........ Lloyd - See above, but looks like he is already packing. Russell - Bruce Amos Stanton Power O'Keefe Baker Nick Austin - Head of List Management Paul Brodie - National Recruiting Manager Michael Agresta - Player Acquisition and Total Player Payment Manager. Personally I have zero idea other than to say.............. If Sayers is going to go down the road of Clarkson or Lyon then he needs to sit down with the winner and say..............who do you trust and who do you want to work with? Not just Coaches but the Big Guns. If we are going the 'All In' again basket, and the Mantra must be 'One Agenda', then now is the best chance you will have to get all the heavy hitters on the same page. If you have the CEO, General Manager of Football, Coach, Fitness Guru, List Manager and Head Recruiter all on that same blank page, then the Board can finally be seen and not heard, make the Money, find the Sponsors, sell the Memberships and sip their fizzy drinks with like minded souls behind thick glass. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	Paddycripps [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
I am a big Carlton follower but I don't go so far as scrutinising the staff to that nth degree. I would assume the review will get to the bottom of who is and isn't doing a good job, and in turn ought to be moved along. If not then we are royally flowered.

Author:	thryleon [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Far out this makes me feel flat. I want my club to function professionally and be the benchmark of footy clubs on field, and off field we are anything but. It all reeks of amateur hour.

Author:	Heavs [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
The thing with Assistant Coaches - how would any of us know?

Author:	Cazzesman [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Heavs wrote: The thing with Assistant Coaches - how would any of us know? And yet.....................on a public forum we all have opinions Heavs that's why I have gone the 100% cop out. I have no idea of their skills sets. Thus the Winner must have a HUGE Voice across all positions, not just with the Assistant Coaches. The Coach must be hand in glove with the GMF and the CEO. Those filling positions must have absolute Integrity, People Skills, Acumen for the Job and above all Footy Street Smarts. We know it is a given the Coach will select his own Coaching team but it is those above that concern me. We honestly need people that aren't afraid for their position/job. No person can work well if they are forever looking over their shoulders waiting for the 'Don't Come Monday' chat. I saw plenty of folk from all over the AFL constantly making sure they have a Plan B and C and D. Job security in the AFL leaves alot to be desired. Sometimes I got the impression people spent more time planning their next move, than concentrating on the job at hand. Regards Cazzesman

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Who survives - Who Replaces http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37325	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Heavs [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
I mean, with players you can see what they bring (or don't) to the table. And make your judgment on that. You don't always know what the instructions are behind closed doors (although I'd be worried if it included missing set shots and not chasing) but for the most part you can make a solid argument one way or another. Ditto with a CEO - you have metrics as to whether they are running a good operation or not. Head Coach you can see it as well - are the players listening to the message, how does he communicate with the media etc. You can infer how he manages his line coaches as well. But line coaches I just don't see how any of us can have visibility on whether they are doing a good job or not.

Author:	robertbb [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
One thing I'd love to know is: why do people say that the off field politicking at board level affects on-field performance? That may be true if senior coach and/or line coaches are no good or not liked, but wtf does a professional AFL footballer care what goes on at board level? How does them knowing that the board is a harmonious unit allow them to perform better? How does them knowing the big-dogs are barking at each other impact their performance when they step over the white line?

Author:	keogh [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Cazzeman The one bloke I would love to have on a full time basis is Dunstall Was a Carlton supporter If you got him everything would flow in the right direction from there He would be on every interview panel in whatever position he was in I would also appoint as many women to important positions A good woman is better than a good man Better communicaters Better listeners Better at perceiving Erin Phillips would be the first person I would contact I would move heaven and high water to get these two people on a full time basis at the CFC Why would Dunstall leave Cushy Foxtel Maybe he wants a new challenge I would also have Matt Rendell in charge of recruiting There you go Cazzeman Happy with the response At least admit I’ve got a few unpopular predictions right

Author:	GWS [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
robertbb wrote: One thing I'd love to know is: why do people say that the off field politicking at board level affects on-field performance? That may be true if senior coach and/or line coaches are no good or not liked, but wtf does a professional AFL footballer care what goes on at board level? How does them knowing that the board is a harmonious unit allow them to perform better? How does them knowing the big-dogs are barking at each other impact their performance when they step over the white line? Poor little flowers are desperately looking for their psychologically safe place and what mummy and daddy are doing is very distracting.

Author:	keogh [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Cazzesman wrote: Heavs wrote: The thing with Assistant Coaches - how would any of us know? And yet.....................on a public forum we all have opinions Heavs that's why I have gone the 100% cop out. I have no idea of their skills sets. Thus the Winner must have a HUGE Voice across all positions, not just with the Assistant Coaches. The Coach must be hand in glove with the GMF and the CEO. Those filling positions must have absolute Integrity, People Skills, Acumen for the Job and above all Footy Street Smarts. We know it is a given the Coach will select his own Coaching team but it is those above that concern me. We honestly need people that aren't afraid for their position/job. No person can work well if they are forever looking over their shoulders waiting for the 'Don't Come Monday' chat. I saw plenty of folk from all over the AFL constantly making sure they have a Plan B and C and D. Job security in the AFL leaves alot to be desired. Sometimes I got the impression people spent more time planning their next move, than concentrating on the job at hand. Regards Cazzesman Hit Nail Head So true at CFC And it stems from the top Someone like Dunstall would sort that out

Author:	Crusader [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
CEO: Ian Prendergast CCO & General Counsel: Cleaver Greene Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer Director of Football: Brad Scott Head Coach: Ross Lyon Forwards: David Teague Backs: Dale Amos Midfield: Luke Power Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe Development Coach: Eddie Betts Development Coach: Brendon Goddard

Author:	Blue Vain [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
I think it's a great question and the "team" would dictate who I want to coach. Not the figurehead. I would not be interested in giving Clarko or Ross the job without information on who they will bring to fill the supporting roles and most importantly, how they will interact with and empower them. My experience with AFL coaches is the system sucks the innovation and dare out of them. Many of the recent successful coaches come in with new or unorthodox strategies or they are successful for being forced to implement them. Some of the developing coaches coming up through the NAB league are creative, innovative and risk takers. But the elite level is too resistant to utilise their skillset. They are expected to conform instead of challenge. Clarkson came in with a radical strategy and Hawthorn had the guts to go on the ride with him. Hardwick was forced to change strategy because of injury and list structure. No available tall forwards turned their game plan upside down. Would Hardwick be a premiership coach had that not occurred? I have my doubts. How many of our coaches are victims of the system? Looking at the past, Denis Pagan left Carlton and a year or so later he was appointed coach of TAC club Northern Knights. He lasted 1 year. Why? Because he had become a model example of the system. He refused to adapt. He refused to accept feedback. He refused to view innovation and new ideas. The valuable coaches are those with ideas. They think outside the square. Perhaps 90% of their ideas are impractical but the other 10% could be gold. Caracella comes to mind. He may never be a senior coach but he gives me the impression that he is an innovator. I hated Sheedy but he is another perfect example. Some crazy ideas but he never failed to challenge, innovate, suggest and try. Any coach who doesn't embrace innovation or cannot decipher, dissect and grasp the nuggets of gold will put themselves behind the 8 ball. That's why I'm reluctant to take seasoned AFL coaches who have been in the system many years. Unless they have an elite team and can create an environment that embraces innovation, ideas and has a vision for how the game can be played. Not how it has been played. So that is the challenge. Select a coach that can be challenged and is not threatened by innovators. Select a team with a great understanding of the game but a willingness to value new ideas. The innovator and those who can harness his ideas and implement them are the future. Without knowing the incumbents, it's guesswork. But that's the criteria I'd want.

Author:	keogh [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Blue Vain wrote: I think it's a great question and the "team" would dictate who I want to coach. Not the figurehead. I would not be interested in giving Clarko or Ross the job without information on who they will bring to fill the supporting roles and most importantly, how they will interact with and empower them. My experience with AFL coaches is the system sucks the innovation and dare out of them. Many of the recent successful coaches come in with new or unorthodox strategies or they are successful for being forced to implement them. Some of the developing coaches coming up through the NAB league are creative, innovative and risk takers. But the elite level is too resistant to utilise their skillset. They are expected to conform instead of challenge. Clarkson came in with a radical strategy and Hawthorn had the guts to go on the ride with him. Hardwick was forced to change strategy because of injury and list structure. No available tall forwards turned their game plan upside down. Would Hardwick be a premiership coach had that not occurred? I have my doubts. How many of our coaches are victims of the system? Looking at the past, Denis Pagan left Carlton and a year or so later he was appointed coach of TAC club Northern Knights. He lasted 1 year. Why? Because he had become a model example of the system. He refused to adapt. He refused to accept feedback. He refused to view innovation and new ideas. The valuable coaches are those with ideas. They think outside the square. Perhaps 90% of their ideas are impractical but the other 10% could be gold. Caracella comes to mind. He may never be a senior coach but he gives me the impression that he is an innovator. I hated Sheedy but he is another perfect example. Some crazy ideas but he never failed to challenge, innovate, suggest and try. Any coach who doesn't embrace innovation or cannot decipher, dissect and grasp the nuggets of gold will put themselves behind the 8 ball. That's why I'm reluctant to take seasoned AFL coaches who have been in the system many years. Unless they have an elite team and can create an environment that embraces innovation, ideas and has a vision for how the game can be played. Not how it has been played. So that is the challenge. Select a coach that can be challenged and is not threatened by innovators. Select a team with a great understanding of the game but a willingness to value new ideas. The innovator and those who can harness his ideas and implement them are the future. Without knowing the incumbents, it's guesswork. But that's the criteria I'd want. In other words The best available Great post Makes sense Problem is the board are short sighted It always comes back to that A great example of a coach who needs to change is Adam Simpson Three years ago he was a premiership coach. Now he maintain possession safe option games is outdated If he was available to board would look at him too without thinking too deeply about it That’s why we need someone like Dunstall at the helm How unbroken is it that except for Patty Kinnersly we don’t have one “ footy person “ on this board a group of people guiding the clubs’ path

Author:	Cazzesman [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Crusader wrote: CEO: Ian Prendergast CCO & General Counsel: Cleaver Greene Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer Director of Football: Brad Scott Head Coach: Ross Lyon Forwards: David Teague Backs: Dale Amos Midfield: Luke Power Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe Development Coach: Eddie Betts Development Coach: Brendon Goddard Kudos Crusader for having the 'lads' to give it a crack. The Brad Scott one is interesting. Not sure I am a fan of his but it is fair to say he also had the 'lads' to call it as he saw it with the Roo's and spoke up. Got to give him credit for that. Like the Hickmont vibe. Regards Cazzesman

Page 1 of 4	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	keogh [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Cazzesman wrote: Crusader wrote: CEO: Ian Prendergast CCO & General Counsel: Cleaver Greene Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer Director of Football: Brad Scott Head Coach: Ross Lyon Forwards: David Teague Backs: Dale Amos Midfield: Luke Power Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe Development Coach: Eddie Betts Development Coach: Brendon Goddard Kudos Crusader for having the 'lads' to give it a crack. The Brad Scott one is interesting. Not sure I am a fan of his but it is fair to say he also had the 'lads' to call it as he saw it with the Roo's and spoke up. Got to give him credit for that. Like the Hickmont vibe. Regards Cazzesman Not a big Brad Scott fan either

Author:	Drewgirl [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Russell - I dont think players can run out a full game. We have so many injuries. And Cripps just doesnt seem right with his body. He has lost power and seems ever slower than before. Lloyd - needs to go. If he overpaying with player contracts? The recruiting team - Outside of Austin the others have been there too long, we need fresh eyes. They are just not nailing the later picks. Liddle - Not sure as he seems to be a shrewd good operator in terms of memberships etc. But sick of hearing rumours of him getting involved in other depts and having fights with everyone. I am on the fence with this one. Assistant coaches - That is up to the new coach, but apart from Power all should go too. I wish we could sack some of the board as well. Need to break up the boys club. This is my worry with Ross as he is part of the boys club. We need to break away from this.

Author:	Crusader [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
keogh wrote: Cazzesman wrote: Crusader wrote: CEO: Ian Prendergast CCO & General Counsel: Cleaver Greene Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer Director of Football: Brad Scott Head Coach: Ross Lyon Forwards: David Teague Backs: Dale Amos Midfield: Luke Power Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe Development Coach: Eddie Betts Development Coach: Brendon Goddard Kudos Crusader for having the 'lads' to give it a crack. The Brad Scott one is interesting. Not sure I am a fan of his but it is fair to say he also had the 'lads' to call it as he saw it with the Roo's and spoke up. Got to give him credit for that. Like the Hickmont vibe. Regards Cazzesman Not a big Brad Scott fan either As long as we all agree that having Cleave on the executive could only be a good thing.

Author:	AGRO [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
I’ve heard Dave Misson is being or has been sounded out for a role.

Author:	carntheblues [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
Blue Vain wrote: I think it's a great question and the "team" would dictate who I want to coach. Not the figurehead. I would not be interested in giving Clarko or Ross the job without information on who they will bring to fill the supporting roles and most importantly, how they will interact with and empower them. My experience with AFL coaches is the system sucks the innovation and dare out of them. Many of the recent successful coaches come in with new or unorthodox strategies or they are successful for being forced to implement them. Some of the developing coaches coming up through the NAB league are creative, innovative and risk takers. But the elite level is too resistant to utilise their skillset. They are expected to conform instead of challenge. Clarkson came in with a radical strategy and Hawthorn had the guts to go on the ride with him. Hardwick was forced to change strategy because of injury and list structure. No available tall forwards turned their game plan upside down. Would Hardwick be a premiership coach had that not occurred? I have my doubts. How many of our coaches are victims of the system? Looking at the past, Denis Pagan left Carlton and a year or so later he was appointed coach of TAC club Northern Knights. He lasted 1 year. Why? Because he had become a model example of the system. He refused to adapt. He refused to accept feedback. He refused to view innovation and new ideas. The valuable coaches are those with ideas. They think outside the square. Perhaps 90% of their ideas are impractical but the other 10% could be gold. Caracella comes to mind. He may never be a senior coach but he gives me the impression that he is an innovator. I hated Sheedy but he is another perfect example. Some crazy ideas but he never failed to challenge, innovate, suggest and try. Any coach who doesn't embrace innovation or cannot decipher, dissect and grasp the nuggets of gold will put themselves behind the 8 ball. That's why I'm reluctant to take seasoned AFL coaches who have been in the system many years. Unless they have an elite team and can create an environment that embraces innovation, ideas and has a vision for how the game can be played. Not how it has been played. So that is the challenge. Select a coach that can be challenged and is not threatened by innovators. Select a team with a great understanding of the game but a willingness to value new ideas. The innovator and those who can harness his ideas and implement them are the future. Without knowing the incumbents, it's guesswork. But that's the criteria I'd want. Yes good post BV

Author:	azzablue [ Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who survives - Who Replaces
[quote="Crusader"]CEO: Ian Prendergast Footy boss : Chris bond Vacant board seat: Norma Plummer Director of Football: sos after liddle leaves Head Coach: Ross Lyon Forwards: Voss plus senior assistant Backs: Mcquartler Midfield: Luke Power Head of Development: Adrian Hickmott VFL Coach: Daniel O’Keeffe Development Coach: Eddie Betts Development Coach: Lenny Hayes