TalkingCarlton :: View topic

Fair to say SOS stuffed the midfield recruitment.

Did he or have we got the worse developers of young talent in the AFL
Arguably yes and have we got great assistant coaches coaching the midfield no
Thirdly do we have a coach who coaches midfielders well and has a game plan that suits the strengths of our midfield -answer is no

I get the argument that SOS wasn’t good with midfielders but I think it’s S little bit more than that

We get rid of SpS and we are morons. It’s that simple.

SurreyBlue wrote:

We get rid of SpS and we are morons. It’s that simple.

Then he should run, chase, harass and tackle.

Sydney players chase and tackle unconditionally what place in the AFL world do lazy 23 year olds have?

How’s your favourite coach going Walsh you shouldn’t be talking about favourites and you have been running agendas since you got here
Your completely subjective almost scary adoration and defensiveness in respect to the coach is bordering on worrying
You have no idea who my favourites are in any case stop talking nonsense
You continue to play the man not the ball
We want arguments not hyperbole and vitriol

Maybe you have had a few today but your intolerant crap about people of all persuasions or who don’t fit in with your cookie cutter view of life earlier in the day proved to me if I wasn’t already convinced that you have no absolutely no idea

Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield.
Cripps
Walsh
Dow
Curnow 1
Curnow 2
Cunningham
Stocker
Fisher
SPS
Fogarty
JSOS
Obrien
Murphy
Williams
Kennedy
Setterfield
Cottrell
Newnes
Ramsey
Durdin
Kemp
Carroll

Plus Philp

That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in

How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players.

Our issue isn't who it is how.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield.
Cripps
Walsh
Dow
Curnow 1
Curnow 2
Cunningham
Stocker
Fisher
SPS
Fogarty
JSOS
Obrien
Murphy
Williams
Kennedy
Setterfield
Cottrell
Newnes
Ramsey
Durdin
Kemp
Carroll

That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in

How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players.

Our issue isn't who it is how.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Sydney Blue wrote:

Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield.
Cripps
Walsh
Dow
Curnow 1
Curnow 2
Cunningham
Stocker
Fisher
SPS
Fogarty
JSOS
Obrien
Murphy
Williams
Kennedy
Setterfield
Cottrell
Newnes
Ramsey
Durdin
Kemp
Carroll

That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in

How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players.

Our issue isn't who it is how.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

When I agree with Syd on an argument, it shows how clear it is.

Doesn’t matter how many times I ask the question, no one ever responds with who we should’ve brought in instead based on their track record at the time.

The fact is our midfield development has been dog shit for years, regardless of who we brought in (a big reason why I think Barker got the boot), with our midfielders poorly led on the field by piss-poor ‘leaders’ with major flaws to their game, or have been conditional players themselves.

I don’t blame our recruiters, because they did what they were asked and aren’t responsible for development.

I also don’t blame Teague alone for this, as it’s been systemic for years. But he certainly hasn’t helped the issue.

Let’s get 22 players on the same page, ready to do what is required in every contest and play as a team, and then we can weed out the non-compliance. Having 20 players not willing to do the little things is a virus that infiltrates. That’s on the coaches and not the talented kids.

‘Most’ top draft picks are talented. That is why they get drafted so high.
Not all make it, but it’s not because of talent. Many reasons and one is definitely environment.

Sydney Blue wrote:

Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield.
Cripps
Walsh
Dow
Curnow 1
Curnow 2
Cunningham
Stocker
Fisher
SPS
Fogarty
JSOS
Obrien
Murphy
Williams
Kennedy
Setterfield
Cottrell
Newnes
Ramsey
Durdin
Kemp
Carroll

That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in

How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players.

Our issue isn't who it is how.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

‘Most’ top draft picks are talented. That is why they get drafted so high.
Not all make it, but it’s not because of talent. Many reasons and one is definitely environment, another is attitude and want.

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Paddycripps wrote: Fair to say SOS stuffed the midfield recruitment. Nailed the talls Butchered the smalls. Talls are harder to nail so no problem.

Author:	frank dardew [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Did he or have we got the worse developers of young talent in the AFL Arguably yes and have we got great assistant coaches coaching the midfield no Thirdly do we have a coach who coaches midfielders well and has a game plan that suits the strengths of our midfield -answer is no I get the argument that SOS wasn’t good with midfielders but I think it’s S little bit more than that

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
frank dardew wrote: Did he or have we got the worse developers of young talent in the AFL Arguably yes and have we got great assistant coaches coaching the midfield no Thirdly do we have a coach who coaches midfielders well and has a game plan that suits the strengths of our midfield -answer is no I get the argument that SOS wasn’t good with midfielders but I think it’s S little bit more than that Maybe - development of players has been above average in my eyes. Because your favourites have likely peaked in ability shouldn't blind you with the overall development efforts. Yes high prized draftees have failed - Dow, SPS and LOB. But I think if we weigh up these three failures with development successes then I think the club has done an above average job in development. Not all picks were going to work out. Maybe it will still work out for Dow as he has another year on his contract but the others are another statistic like all other clubs have.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
We get rid of SpS and we are morons. It’s that simple.

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
SurreyBlue wrote: We get rid of SpS and we are morons. It’s that simple. Then he should run, chase, harass and tackle. Sydney players chase and tackle unconditionally what place in the AFL world do lazy 23 year olds have?

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Midfield? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37306	Page 2 of 5

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Walsh wrote: SurreyBlue wrote: We get rid of SpS and we are morons. It’s that simple. Then he should run, chase, harass and tackle. Sydney players chase and tackle unconditionally what place in the AFL world do lazy 23 year olds have? He is one of our best tacklers, defensive minded players and offensive users in our team. Unless i’m confusing him with another player. Martin, Stoker, Betts and SpS have the best tackling techniques in our team. How can someone single him out when our whole midfield, including our captain is worse then him? Team mentality and attitude towards 1% footy is not within the whole playing group. Until that changes, my mind won’t change on one player alone. Just like Dow, O’Brien, Setterfield, etc...... Team ethos!!!! I stand by my statement - moving SpS will be a big mistake and one that will highlight our incompetence.

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
We can't have so many one way runners in the team. Cripps has versatility and should be the only one way runner in the team can't afford any more. Either drop Cripps and play SPS but both definitely can not play in the same team as both run only one way. Trade.

Author:	frank dardew [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
How’s your favourite coach going Walsh you shouldn’t be talking about favourites and you have been running agendas since you got here Your completely subjective almost scary adoration and defensiveness in respect to the coach is bordering on worrying You have no idea who my favourites are in any case stop talking nonsense You continue to play the man not the ball We want arguments not hyperbole and vitriol Maybe you have had a few today but your intolerant crap about people of all persuasions or who don’t fit in with your cookie cutter view of life earlier in the day proved to me if I wasn’t already convinced that you have no absolutely no idea

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
frank dardew wrote: How’s your favourite coach going Walsh you shouldn’t be talking about favourites and you have been running agendas since you got here Your completely subjective almost scary adoration and defensiveness in respect to the coach is bordering on worrying You have no idea who my favourites are in any case stop talking nonsense You continue to play the man not the ball We want arguments not hyperbole and vitriol Maybe you have had a few today but your intolerant crap about people of all persuasions or who don’t fit in with your cookie cutter view of life earlier in the day proved to me if I wasn’t already convinced that you have no absolutely no idea Nice unwarranted attack!

Author:	bondiblue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Sydney Blue wrote: Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield. Cripps Walsh Dow Curnow 1 Curnow 2 Cunningham Stocker Fisher SPS Fogarty JSOS Obrien Murphy Williams Kennedy Setterfield Cottrell Newnes Ramsey Durdin Kemp Carroll Plus Philp That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players. Our issue isn't who it is how. Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk I'm not discounting Ed but he's not the future, he's the present and working his arse off...now at HF tagging the HBF There's enough there to have a great midfield group. Add another like Cerra and some of the green step up, and all we need is a ruckman to feed them, and a strategy to win the ball, and we can with Cripps and Walsh in there, get the ball out with system. Get a new coach because we are not losing the games just because of the midfield. Players like Philp a bloody quick, and he's an inside mid who has pace to burn. Players like Philp can run 2 ways. Just need a coach who demands that from 5-6 mids and they will do it.

Author:	Donstuie [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Midfield?
Sydney Blue wrote: Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield. Cripps Walsh Dow Curnow 1 Curnow 2 Cunningham Stocker Fisher SPS Fogarty JSOS Obrien Murphy Williams Kennedy Setterfield Cottrell Newnes Ramsey Durdin Kemp Carroll That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players. Our issue isn't who it is how. Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk When I agree with Syd on an argument, it shows how clear it is. Doesn’t matter how many times I ask the question, no one ever responds with who we should’ve brought in instead based on their track record at the time. The fact is our midfield development has been dog shit for years, regardless of who we brought in (a big reason why I think Barker got the boot), with our midfielders poorly led on the field by piss-poor ‘leaders’ with major flaws to their game, or have been conditional players themselves. I don’t blame our recruiters, because they did what they were asked and aren’t responsible for development. I also don’t blame Teague alone for this, as it’s been systemic for years. But he certainly hasn’t helped the issue.

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
I think we drafted too many skinny flashy players and only one bull in Stocker. You are right in saying who should we have drafted instead. Dow came roaring home in his draft year but disposal and decision making was a an issue. I actually thought we would get Cerra as he had a more consistent year. SPS had quality under 16s but his under 18s was average at best and mostly injured - that was a weak draft with Scrimshaw, Logue, Brodie, Gallucci in the same draft. 2016 was always going to be a miss after a bumper 2015. 2017 was a straight up miss and seriously did not think we would draft Dow and LOB. I was bemused we didnt walk away with Cerra and Higgins

Author:	WOW [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Donstuie wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield. Cripps Walsh Dow Curnow 1 Curnow 2 Cunningham Stocker Fisher SPS Fogarty JSOS Obrien Murphy Williams Kennedy Setterfield Cottrell Newnes Ramsey Durdin Kemp Carroll That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players. Our issue isn't who it is how. Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk When I agree with Syd on an argument, it shows how clear it is. Doesn’t matter how many times I ask the question, no one ever responds with who we should’ve brought in instead based on their track record at the time. The fact is our midfield development has been dog shit for years, regardless of who we brought in (a big reason why I think Barker got the boot), with our midfielders poorly led on the field by piss-poor ‘leaders’ with major flaws to their game, or have been conditional players themselves. I don’t blame our recruiters, because they did what they were asked and aren’t responsible for development. I also don’t blame Teague alone for this, as it’s been systemic for years. But he certainly hasn’t helped the issue. Consistently losing for twenty years is a sure sign the club has cultural and player development issues. Both issues are intertwined. In a socialist competition, the club has had ample opportunities to recruit quality players, who have suffered due to those issues.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Let’s get 22 players on the same page, ready to do what is required in every contest and play as a team, and then we can weed out the non-compliance. Having 20 players not willing to do the little things is a virus that infiltrates. That’s on the coaches and not the talented kids.

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Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
SurreyBlue wrote: Let’s get 22 players on the same page, ready to do what is required in every contest and play as a team, and then we can weed out the non-compliance. Having 20 players not willing to do the little things is a virus that infiltrates. That’s on the coaches and not the talented kids. Did we think the same with Luke Livingstone, Trent Sporn, Simon Wiggins because you know all first round picks are bonafide super talented players no questions asked. F

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
‘Most’ top draft picks are talented. That is why they get drafted so high. Not all make it, but it’s not because of talent. Many reasons and one is definitely environment, another is attitude and want.

Author:	Walsh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
SurreyBlue wrote: ‘Most’ top draft picks are talented. That is why they get drafted so high. Not all make it, but it’s not because of talent. Many reasons and one is definitely environment. Draft is hit and miss - most show raw junior talent doesn't necessarily translate to AFL quality unless something stands out by a long way from the pack. Go through previous drafts and over 50% of top 10 picks have flopped. We should have traded 2016 pick for a player as draft was always going to be weak. SOS nailed the talls and choked on the smalls. I love SOS but stuffed up the draft when it came to mids. Did good with late picks must be said... Fisher, Williamson, Owies, Cottrell , Gibbons are very good rookie picks. But stuffed it at the top end - went for too many skinny flaky youngsters. If they're not strong around the hips then the hit and miss is huge imo.

Author:	keogh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Donstuie wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Well if you read every 2nd post we have a shite load of players who should be in the midfield. Cripps Walsh Dow Curnow 1 Curnow 2 Cunningham Stocker Fisher SPS Fogarty JSOS Obrien Murphy Williams Kennedy Setterfield Cottrell Newnes Ramsey Durdin Kemp Carroll That is 22 players capable of playing in the midfield 17 drafted 5 traded in How can anyone possibly suggest we have not drafted enough midfield players. Our issue isn't who it is how. Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk When I agree with Syd on an argument, it shows how clear it is. Doesn’t matter how many times I ask the question, no one ever responds with who we should’ve brought in instead based on their track record at the time. The fact is our midfield development has been dog shit for years, regardless of who we brought in (a big reason why I think Barker got the boot), with our midfielders poorly led on the field by piss-poor ‘leaders’ with major flaws to their game, or have been conditional players themselves. I don’t blame our recruiters, because they did what they were asked and aren’t responsible for development. I also don’t blame Teague alone for this, as it’s been systemic for years. But he certainly hasn’t helped the issue. I ll give it go I’ll stop after 3 years of SOS’s tenure before he cracked shits because someone actually thought he was shit at something 2015 Cuningham What we could have got Dunkley Keays Dawson Snelling Greenwood 2016 SPS What we could have got Florent Simpkin Berry Haywood Witherdon Parfitt 2016 Fisher What we could have got Bolton Drew Stewart 2016 Polson What we could have got Narkle 2017 Dow What we could have got Davis-Uniacke Cerra Stephenson Clark I’ll throw Naughton in for the sake of it 2017 O’Brien Bailey Richards Higgins Starcevich Powell Allen Kelly Ryan Worpel Mires Fuc me dead On top of this after the worst year ( 2018) in the club’s history he trades away 3 picks in the 20s plus 2 freebies from the lower leagues for McGovern who has been useless and Setterfield who hasn’t done much better He may have got the 2019 draft right or wrong We don’t know But for the last time Silvangi wouldn’t know a good young mid if he fell over one His time as List Manager is a definite fail and this review whenever it’s let out should have a special section called “ Jobs for the boys is instigated at your own peril “ For what it’s worth JSOS Owies Stocker Play midfield As Walsh said Too many flashy players who don’t want their shorts to get dirty

Author:	keogh [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
Here it is very simply We have the best key forward by a long way this year in McKay Possibly the best defender and best one on one player in Weitering and Jones And where 13 th You can’t play consistent footy and be in the contest every week when your midfield bats 3 deep Walsh Cripps ( just) Kennedy ( roughly a 6 th stringer) That’s it Overall Dow has been very disappointing for a 4 th year player There isn’t anyone else this year

Author:	london blue [ Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Midfield?
SurreyBlue wrote: ‘Most’ top draft picks are talented. That is why they get drafted so high. Not all make it, but it’s not because of talent. Many reasons and one is definitely environment, another is attitude and want. Must be about attitude and want with Samo, his career ave on most important stats is ave or below average.