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R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37163 |
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Author: | TheBluesMuse [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Blue Vain wrote: keogh wrote: Win lose or draw I reckon you need to look at the game in context to three areas 1 The opposition Freo were shit. They didn’t come to play . Their midfield stunk up the big one. Taberner is their only decent forward he was just ok Their defence had nobody to match McKay given the supply 2 our best players Walsh Jones had their best games. Walsh is an aerobic contested beast. Jones actually kicked the ball beautifully. Don’t expect it 2 weeks in a row! Cripps played really well. Fogarty looks really good. Early days but that prick Scott might regret not keeping him and getting Higgins. Gibbons was excellent Mc Kay had his best game. Still hate it when he kicks check sides. He will never get it easier. If Curnow comes back it would be fantastic seeing those 2 dudes in action. 3 our worst players Please drop Murphy and Betts. Not up to it . Period Give Owies an extended time in the seniors as a small forward Plowman got. bit of it and is trying to become more offensive but makes too many mistakes under pressure Casboult and Dow not up to it Dow has no game sense and has been granted games ahead of others because he was a pick 3 Bring in McDonald and Stocker And don’t drop Cottrell and Parks. Give them an extended run Both have some mongrel about them something we have sadly lacked for a long time The opposition were shit. Our players had their best game. Don't expect it again. Blah blah blah We won by 45 points Keogh. Dwell in your own negativity without coming here and trying to drag the rest of us into it. I don’t pay enough attention to know the usual suspects but I can tell you it only took me half a paragraph to know I needn’t waste my time reading it. |
Author: | Bluetears [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
A kick off the ground walloped williams straight in the janglies. Happened with 5 minutes to go in the second. Hee dropped like a sack of spuds. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Williams seems quite durable. He took a big knock to his leg in the 1st qtr. and played out the game ok. He looks bigger in the carlton jersey than in the gws one, i was thinking |
Author: | litho_43 [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Walsh stays in the contest like no other. It's a joy to watch, especially live |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Blue Vain wrote: bondiblue wrote: supercoach wrote: bondiblue wrote: grrofunger wrote: A 45 point win BOG a toss up between Walsh Cripps jones Fogarty McKay ....Inhavent even seen the stats yet. Walsh is a phenomena. His disposals usually count. Glad to win by 1 point let alone 45. We were 46 up at half time and 62 points during the third. Dow pick 3 beat Cerra pick 4 on the day. Neither were stars but hey...it's about them. Go Blues How did Dow beat cerra Bondi ? Look, they were both below average. Cerra more disposals, but on the outside whilst eveyone else was doing the hard work. Dow put his head over the ball more and got in close to distribute. Cerra a better kick. Dow a harder player. My vote. Dow. Now drop him for Stocker. Cerra is a class player. Yet there's another player who was taken later in the draft than both Dow and Cerra that is playing great footy. Averaging 22 possessions this season, 4.3 tackles, 8.3 contested possessions, more effective disposals than Cerra, more stoppage clearances and more goals. And IMHO, he has far more scope for improvement. Lachie Fogarty. Interesting you bring this up implying the clubs recruiting staff are now genius . Austin can’t be any worse than sour puss SOS. SOS did a deal with Geelong in 2016 Remember it Pick 63 Billie Smedts and a future first rounder for Tuohy and a future second rounder in Lachie Fogarty So clearly now is a another all mighty @#$%&! up when you look back at it The future first rounder wound up somehow with the Lions and Bailey was picked Another nail in SOSs coffin He actually traded this pick for Marchbank Pickett and a future second rounder SOS was definitely not a genius As for the pussies well their time is up and it’s time to rebuild Fogarty is a good pick up it seems What goes around comes around |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
I want us to be successful Not just one game where the opposition don’t turn up. You virtually cannot carry any passengers if you want to get into a Preliminary Final. The club has once again come out with this goal of winning a flag in 2 years or whatever. You can’t win one if your carrying 5 or 6 players which is what happened Sunday. That’s a fact. It ain’t being negative at all. I would love to see what Owies, Carroll, Stocker etc can bring to the table Cottrell and Parks need to be given a couple more goes . |
Author: | Blue Vain [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
keogh wrote: Blue Vain wrote: bondiblue wrote: supercoach wrote: bondiblue wrote: A 45 point win BOG a toss up between Walsh Cripps jones Fogarty McKay ....Inhavent even seen the stats yet. Walsh is a phenomena. His disposals usually count. Glad to win by 1 point let alone 45. We were 46 up at half time and 62 points during the third. Dow pick 3 beat Cerra pick 4 on the day. Neither were stars but hey...it's about them. Go Blues How did Dow beat cerra Bondi ? Look, they were both below average. Cerra more disposals, but on the outside whilst eveyone else was doing the hard work. Dow put his head over the ball more and got in close to distribute. Cerra a better kick. Dow a harder player. My vote. Dow. Now drop him for Stocker. Cerra is a class player. Yet there's another player who was taken later in the draft than both Dow and Cerra that is playing great footy. Averaging 22 possessions this season, 4.3 tackles, 8.3 contested possessions, more effective disposals than Cerra, more stoppage clearances and more goals. And IMHO, he has far more scope for improvement. Lachie Fogarty. Interesting you bring this up implying the clubs recruiting staff are now genius . No. I've read my post several times Keogh and I cant see how I implied that anywhere. Once again you are deflecting and pulling untruths out of your arse. I'm happy to debate with you but I cant be bothered when you stray so far from reality. Whenever you're called out you deflect and fabricate. As recently as the past week I've been very critical of Silvagni's recruiting. But that has nothing to do with me complimenting Fogarty on his abilities nor the club trading him in. Some of our selections have been poor. This trade was excellent. That's the difference Keogh. I offer criticism when it's required and praise when it's due. You should try objectivity. It may help drag you out of the negative mire that you dwell in. |
Author: | Teddy Hopkins [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
keogh wrote: I want us to be successful Not just one game where the opposition don’t turn up. You virtually cannot carry any passengers if you want to get into a Preliminary Final. The club has once again come out with this goal of winning a flag in 2 years or whatever. You can’t win one if your carrying 5 or 6 players which is what happened Sunday. That’s a fact. It ain’t being negative at all. I would love to see what Owies, Carroll, Stocker etc can bring to the table Cottrell and Parks need to be given a couple more goes . I back Keogh on this. Dominant players: Walsh, Harry, Cripps, Jones, Fogarty, Good players: JSOS, Plowman, Curnow, Docherty, Gibbons. OK players: Newnes, Williams (& knocked up twice), Saad, Weitering, SPS. Players with an excuse: Parks - debut, Cottrell first game for the year and still under double figures for his career but both still did a reasonable job. 17 out of 22. We are 5 short IMHO. Out of the 5 Dow may still come good. We have kids in the wings in form. Play them. |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
We agree to disagree on several points I do take exception to the fact you think I am too negative Do you agree that to make top 4 you have to have every player bar maybe one contributing significantly That’s what we all want as supporters I don’t get to carried away with a win like that Walsh is amazing Cripps had a good game If those 2 have a bad one who picks up the slack I do read your posts Ed shouldn’t be dropped because he is our next best mid I went to the Hawks Carlton game last year in Perth and in the last 3 quarters we were obliterated because Walsh and Cripps had shockers. Setterfield and Kennedy virtually didn’t touch it after quarter time Other than Ed who picked up the slack . Nobody Has that changed I reckon Gibbons should play more midfield because he can get it but after that there is daylight to the rest Fogarty looks good and has definitely helped Williams was recruited to bolster the midfield He has played virtually all his footy has a back flanker He hasn’t proved anything as a mid yet and $850000 a season for 5 is a massive risk I deal with the facts and where I reckon we need to get better Fogarty has definitely helped but we need to bat 3 or 4 deeper in the midfield because 1 We will play better opposition 2 Walsh and Cripps won’t play that well every week We are 6 years into a rebuild Fair enough |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Teddy Hopkins wrote: keogh wrote: I want us to be successful Not just one game where the opposition don’t turn up. You virtually cannot carry any passengers if you want to get into a Preliminary Final. The club has once again come out with this goal of winning a flag in 2 years or whatever. You can’t win one if your carrying 5 or 6 players which is what happened Sunday. That’s a fact. It ain’t being negative at all. I would love to see what Owies, Carroll, Stocker etc can bring to the table Cottrell and Parks need to be given a couple more goes . I back Keogh on this. Dominant players: Walsh, Harry, Cripps, Jones, Fogarty, Good players: JSOS, Plowman, Curnow, Docherty, Gibbons. OK players: Newnes, Williams (& knocked up twice), Saad, Weitering, SPS. Players with an excuse: Parks - debut, Cottrell first game for the year and still under double figures for his career but both still did a reasonable job. 17 out of 22. We are 5 short IMHO. Out of the 5 Dow may still come good. We have kids in the wings in form. Play them. Absolutely |
Author: | CK95 [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Reckon you are being harsh on Williams there Keogh. He's been good in his 2 games for us. And he started in the centre regularly for us on Sunday not the HBF. The centre 4 was generally Pitto-Cripps-Ed and one of Walsh/Williams. Plus he went off the ground for 2 stints with injury Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk |
Author: | CK95 [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
I agree with you though that we need more midfield cover in general for Cripps & Walsh though. Kennedy & Stocker looked good in the 2s Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk |
Author: | grrofunger [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Coaches votes: 9 Harry McKay (CARL) 8 Liam Jones (CARL) 6 Sam Walsh (CARL) 5 Patrick Cripps (CARL) 2 Lachie Fogarty (CARL) |
Author: | Teddy Hopkins [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
grrofunger wrote: Coaches votes: 9 Harry McKay (CARL) 8 Liam Jones (CARL) 6 Sam Walsh (CARL) 5 Patrick Cripps (CARL) 2 Lachie Fogarty (CARL) Would not give 9/10 for a full forward who cannot kick straight. That's his job. Saying that, 8/10. Doesn't matter how well he did in other areas. |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
CK95 wrote: Reckon you are being harsh on Williams there Keogh. He's been good in his 2 games for us. And he started in the centre regularly for us on Sunday not the HBF. The centre 4 was generally Pitto-Cripps-Ed and one of Walsh/Williams. Plus he went off the ground for 2 stints with injury Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk On 850000 for 5 years he should be in the middle To me the issue that the club has addressed is leg speed on the outside That’s why they got Fogarty Williams and Saad They are also excellent uses of the ball but now Williams has to step up and play in a harder position I thought he was just ok on Sunday Their was an excellent discussion on On the Couch last night About how defenders have had it so easy with slow ball movement into forward 50 s Williams has had it easy for 8 years playing at HB and how the game has been played Defenders are going to have to player shoulder to shoulder like the good old days otherwise there will be more blow outs Mc Kay has huge upside but where was Cox his opponent Away from him Mc Kay got an armchair ride Williams now is in the midfield and it’s too early to call how good he will be over the next 5 years in that position |
Author: | dannyboy [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
so you think we should not have recruited Williams? |
Author: | club29 [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Does anyone really know how much Williams is really on? I know Keogh said he deals only in fact and he said Williams is on $850k but is that fact? |
Author: | Blue Vain [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
club29 wrote: Does anyone really know how much Williams is really on? I know Keogh said he deals only in fact and he said Williams is on $850k but is that fact? No. Keogh is quoting guesswork from the media. FWIW, Williams is averaging more clearances than Cripps or Walsh. (Rated our number 1) He's equal 3rd for tackles with Cripps, leading our inside 50 entries and is top 3 for contested possessions. He's a hard worker who is playing excellent footy. |
Author: | kingkerna [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
Why do we fall into the trap of basing players on their supposed salary? If they are getting paid 800k and playing like a good 500k player they are still worthwhile to the team. As long as we have a good grip on our overall TPP I don't have a problem. Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk |
Author: | keogh [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
dannyboy wrote: so you think we should not have recruited Williams? It was widely reported in the media that Williams is on $850000 a year for 5 years Saad is in $600000 a season for 5 years Mc Govern is in the third year of a 5 year deal around $700000 a season Martin( not the Dusty version) was the fifth highest paid player in AFL last year He is now on $600000 a season roughly for the next 4 Of course this is speculation because unlike say the NBA where players salaries are made public the clubs will not disclose what players get to their supporters which I think is bullshit personally Should we have got Williams No He was on 500000+ and as you know I assume free agency means you have to bid higher to get that player . Very rarely does the original club match the offer particularly if it’s $850000 for a guy who has played 98% of his games on a HBF the easiest position on the ground. Williams and Saad and Fogarty were recruited because we lacked leg speed and good distributors I get that but as is customary at Carlton we payed IMO way overs It can bite you on the arse down the track If you have a gun player who wants more money can you fit him into the salary cap McKay Walsh Cripps? In a general context my opinion is some players are incredibly overrated Neutral example Brad Hill On 850000 a year for at least 4 years Saints gave up pick 10 68 a future second rounder and Blake Acres for a future third rounder and a guy who looks a million dollars when he is on but has the heart of a grape seed The Saints were like us Lacked leg speed So they go and get Jones and Hill Big deal they went into the second week of the finals in 2020 The List Manager overrated their list. They won’t win a flag in the short term Martin cost us bugger all in picks but he is our Hill Brilliantly skilled but a pea heart Williams is unproven as a mid It’s a huge risk On the flip side someone like Fogarty may be underrated I hope so for our sake He did his work experience at Geelong As I said boys the key to being a success on the field is a good List Management team Numero Uno |
Author: | dannyboy [ Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: R3: Carlton Vs Fremantle (Post Match Discussion) |
You wouldn't have gone after Williams. Okay, we disagree. I think Williams has been really good so far and will get better. I also think its silly to guess what we pay. We do not know - the media does not know, it's a game to sell papers, that is all. As long as we spend what we can and bank what we can't, I don't give a rat's. Take Martin, you take his whole contract (in context of all our contracts) not 1 year (and ignoring all our other contracts) - but that mightn't suit your argument. |
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