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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:55 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:

Plowman's had two very poor games.




Gee...I am far from his biggest fan, but thought he played well last week.



As for tonight's game...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:42 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Lowest tackles in the AFL after round 1, and do we make this a focus, nah, again,-29 in tackles.
We turn up, expect it happen without doing anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:30 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Yes lack of tackles abysmal and indicated how soft the side is and how mentally unprepared we go into games leak goals defence gives up easy ones
4 years since we beat the pies great opportunity last night and we stuffed it
Lack of pressure on Collingwood terrible all over the ground
Slow start and winning margin effectively what it was at quarter time
Glad coach has faith in this side because after seeing the last 3 weeks including comedy cup against the Saints losing mine very quickly


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:40 am 
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McKay did well - his presence in forward 50 live was top notch by far the best tall forward on the ground.

Fogarty and McKay matching it with the best backman in the game was one of very few highlights on the night imo.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:04 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Clearly you missed the parts when Moore completely outplayed him.

If we can beat Freo and Gold Coast perhaps we can relaunch the season.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Thinking we got well and truly sucked in by the media scrutiny on the Pies. A team with Grundy, Pendles, Adams, Sidebotton, Crisp etc in decent nick is always beating us.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 am 
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Harry Vallence

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robertbb wrote:
Back from match. Usual random thoughts:

- Cripps: Not himself. Either the faster/more open game of 2021 has passed him by, he's carrying an injury or he's checked out. Or a combination of the above.
- Harry: Wins as many as he loses in the air, but some of his efforts seem half-assed. Nothing in the way of second efforts which is a shame because he's very quick over the first 5-6 meters. Goes to ground.
- Murphy: Cooked. Cookedy cook cookingly flower cooked. Looks for easy possessions and can't stick a tackle. Cannot believe he was our captain.
- Doc: Poor disposal continues, has been a major issue since the pre-season matches. Dunno what's going on there, he used to be up there with the best.
- SPS: Flat footed and reactive.
- Walsh: Star
- Saad: All class. We'll ruin him in good time I'm afraid.
- Williams: Can play. Already trying to do too much to compensate for the soft and fragile players around him.
- Fisher: Is way ahead of himself. You're not Dustin Martin pal, so don't try the fend offs. You're 5 foot nothing and 75 kegs soaking wet. Play the percentages and do the basics well.
- Williamson: Almost always tries to run around and almost always gets caught htb.
- Fogarty: Persist. He's got some good tools. Can be a solid role player in a team with good structure and discipline.
- Dow: No confidence anymore. Could have been a good role player and depth midfielder but we've destroyed him.
- Coaching: Deplorable. We simply have no structure and no good connection between the lines. I maintain John Barker MUST go.
- Mental strength: Weak as piss. The whole comp knows we'll buckle under sustained physical and mental pressure.
- Physical strength: Most of our team can't break tackles. Most of our team can't stick tackles.

- If I hear Teague say he "believes in the group" in the presser I'll vomit. They gotta earn your belief and they aint doing it. Find something else to say.
- The players likewise need to earn the coaching groups' belief. No gifted games.

I should be detached and it shouldn't worry or hurt me anymore, but it @#$%&! does. It @#$%&! hurts. Many of you have seen glory years. At my age, all I've seen (other than being barely 13 in '95) is mediocrity. We've been really crap for really long and we don't even look like we're close emerging from it.


Perfectly summed up !! And John barker has been at the club for a decade of a losing culture...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:33 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think Dow is worth persisting with, but he needs to impose himself on the game more.

Late in the game, think we were 3 goals down, before their final goal. We've got the ball on HBF-wing, Southern side of ground. Dow is inside the centre square just above our CHF, reckon 40m from the kicker. Nobody within at least 20 metres of him. Didn't call for it once, jogged to a contest instead. Needs to want it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:47 am 
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Geoff Southby
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BigGartos wrote:
While frustrated with the loss and the inconsistent umpiring the longer the game went, I go to bed reasonably content...
Because I got to go to the MCG on a pleasant night to watch my team against the old enemy with 51,000 making lots of noise, lots of entertaining footy, some emotion and plenty of people happy to be out. The post game walk back to Flinders Street with the moon and the city lights and the bubbling sound of the throng chatting about the game, or life.
After last year in Melbourne, with no live sport and exactly one year now working alone at home...it was great to be at the footy.

:clap:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:57 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Can’t defend, collectively or individually (save for a select few). Can’t tackle. Can’t pressure. Can’t kick.

Sobering and flat out depressing how far off it we are. Still. Finals are a pipe dream.

Once again we completely butcher a golden opportunity to take a major step forward.

Lots of question marks, players and coaches.

We have invited all the external scrutiny, again.

Shouldn’t we be past all this now?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:32 am 
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Bob Chitty

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There seems to be a disconnect between coach (or at least what the coach says) and the players.
The coach says we want to play the game in our forward half by getting it in quickly and then squeezing up the ground so the opposition can’t get the ball out of our half.
The problem is to play that way you need to (a) win the clearances to get it forward and (b) put on significant pressure to keep the ball in.
We aren’t doing either at the moment. The pressure was abysmal and when combined with our players squeezing up the ground, results in the opposition getting fast breaks into an open forward line that we can’t defend.
It beggars belief then why we continue to pick players that are conditional and not willing to tackle and pressure.
Until the midfield actually stand up and we find players willing to pressure. I fear we’re in for some massive scores against.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:11 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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bluedog wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.


Disagree entirely, I thought it was a good battle between him and Moore.


Moore clearly had a much better game than H.

H’s second efforts are rarely there, and many times his first efforts are sub-standard.


I agree with dannyboy.

We all love the fact he kicked 4 goals using a couple drop punts.

But....dannyboy has said it. lace out passes helped the big fella.

If it was left to "Harry the "Autumn Leaf" to win his own ball with strong positioning, he would have nothing next to his name because you can't score goals with your face facing the ground from a fall tripping over yourself.

Seriously weak, as in, physically weak body. Needs to work on his strength.
Over to you Andrew Russell.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:15 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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WOW wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
WOW wrote:
GMCbris wrote:
We need a ruck


Carlton at their best had great ruckmen

The last decent ruck was Matty Allan and we haven’t looked like it since

I am hopeful De Koning might be the ruckman that we desperately need


Bit rough on big Kreuze


I never rated Kreuzer as a ruckman

Lion hearted and gave his all

But never had the impact of a Fitzpatrick or Madden. Particularly in the middle.

Our centre clearance work has been deplorable over the first two rounds, so De Koning becomes even more important going forward.


Agree.

I wasn't a big fan of Krueze after his 11th goal straight. It wasn't the knee injury that saw his demise. he was missing them (marks and shots at goal) long before the knee.

Pitto was smashed AGAIN.
I know we have no alternative till De Koning gets stronger and becomes available, but we need the King asap.

Anyone who suggests rucks are not important don't understand Aussie Rules and haven't discussed the importance of having a good ruckman with bonafide midfielders.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sydney Blue wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
na, Moore easily beast him in the one on ones unless we hit him on the chest - why is it a beast over 203 tall cannot mark in a contest...cos he doesn't work hard, goes to ground instead. In a final if he plays like that, he will kill us but he'll go home saying I kicked 4! We've all played with that bloke and that bloke is not a great footballer.
No one this year will kick more Goals on Moore than Harry did tonight

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Its not the point dannyboy is making.

Big call SB. I think they will, let alone match it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:20 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Are we allowed to have an honest discussion about Williamson on a Carlton forum without getting into a tizz?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:22 am 
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Rod Ashman
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One of the benefits of going to the game is you can see strategies and team placements more clearly.
TV viewing doesn’t give you the panoramic view.

Settlefield on the wing was devastatingly bad for the Blues.
I guess they put him there as he’s tall.. adheres to the stereotype requirements on the wing.
I watched him closely and two key turnovers in the 2nd quarter came from his fumbles/poor decisions.
On top of that, in one of the rare occasions they got it out of midfield square he hand passed to Cripps-5 metres behind him!

I would drop Settlefield and put someone with good disposals on the wing-Martin eg.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:24 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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robertbb wrote:
Back from match. Usual random thoughts:

- Cripps: Not himself. Either the faster/more open game of 2021 has passed him by, he's carrying an injury or he's checked out. Or a combination of the above.
- Harry: Wins as many as he loses in the air, but some of his efforts seem half-assed. Nothing in the way of second efforts which is a shame because he's very quick over the first 5-6 meters. Goes to ground.
- Murphy: Cooked. Cookedy cook cookingly flower cooked. Looks for easy possessions and can't stick a tackle. Cannot believe he was our captain.
- Doc: Poor disposal continues, has been a major issue since the pre-season matches. Dunno what's going on there, he used to be up there with the best.
- SPS: Flat footed and reactive.
- Walsh: Star
- Saad: All class. We'll ruin him in good time I'm afraid.
- Williams: Can play. Already trying to do too much to compensate for the soft and fragile players around him.
- Fisher: Is way ahead of himself. You're not Dustin Martin pal, so don't try the fend offs. You're 5 foot nothing and 75 kegs soaking wet. Play the percentages and do the basics well.
- Williamson: Almost always tries to run around and almost always gets caught htb.
- Fogarty: Persist. He's got some good tools. Can be a solid role player in a team with good structure and discipline.
- Dow: No confidence anymore. Could have been a good role player and depth midfielder but we've destroyed him.
- Coaching: Deplorable. We simply have no structure and no good connection between the lines. I maintain John Barker MUST go.
- Mental strength: Weak as piss. The whole comp knows we'll buckle under sustained physical and mental pressure.
- Physical strength: Most of our team can't break tackles. Most of our team can't stick tackles.

- If I hear Teague say he "believes in the group" in the presser I'll vomit. They gotta earn your belief and they aint doing it. Find something else to say.
- The players likewise need to earn the coaching groups' belief. No gifted games.

I should be detached and it shouldn't worry or hurt me anymore, but it @#$%&! does. It @#$%&! hurts. Many of you have seen glory years. At my age, all I've seen (other than being barely 13 in '95) is mediocrity. We've been really crap for really long and we don't even look like we're close emerging from it.


This.

I don't know if we've destroyed them, or SOS got it wrong. I'm convinced its more the latter.
There's no tough nuts drafted.

No 1 picks don't count. They are default selections.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:28 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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BigGartos wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.

Don't know if you watched on tv or at ground (I went) but he was more competitive than you give him credit for: certainly more than last week.
In fact he had a great battle with Moore and I think this motivated him to be more competitive, certainly in the third quarter when he was down where I could see him.
The other big improvement from last week was backing himself to kick the goal.
Murphy on the other hand seemed to have no impact.


Thanks for the insight Big Gartos. I'm glad to get your perspective from the ground. Heartening TBH>

I think dannyboy and some of the others, including me, can't believe how often Harry fell over... yeah, like a drunk...he wasn't pushed, monstered...he fell over half a dozen times. Could you see why that was happening? Something heartening please. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:30 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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david31 wrote:
An observation from level 4 of the Olympic stand: our forward pressure was atrocious. Every time the ball hit the deck inside 50, the Collingwood players raffled it, had 3 easy handball options and then just walked it out of the 50. Just really disappointing. Fogarty tried on the pressure front but didn’t have many mates


Again, thanks for your insight from the ground.

That's what it looked like on TV.

No forward pressure...plenty of talk about it.
Who are the leaders in the forwardline to motivate, and demand this MO? Murphy? Yeah right.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:32 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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kingkerna wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.
Finally someone has said it, he got well and truly pantsed tonight.

Like many others

Williamson
Murphy
Casboult

Out.

I was at the game and thought Dow is absolutely worth keeping. Fogarty was very good. Martin, Saad also good.

Weitering was shown by Moore why he isn't all Australian.



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Not being facetious. I'm really keen to hear what you saw in him.

I thought Dow did a few good things too, just don't think he's ready for this level.
IMO, needs to improve his upper body strength yto give him confidence to take on the tackler or to break lines which is what he was recruited to do. It seems to me he is desperate to get rid of the pill without taking in too much of his surrounds, and opportunities.

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