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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 am 
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Ken Hunter
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but not keogh's plan.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:34 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10326
Location: Coburg
keogh wrote:

Let me ask you this
I am intrigued by your pending answer
Adam Saad has 4 years left on a deal worth around $650000 a season
He cost us pick 10 basically
He is the most one sided player I have seen for a while
Clearly it’s a problem that GC Essendon** and Carlton have not addressed and it strikes me as incredibly lazy on his behalf
You could solve the problem with a weeks training
I did it in my younger years and I was a shit footballer
He then with some aerobic fitness become a better player playing more versatile roles


Okay just curious, when you were a shit footballer and turned yourself in a week from one-sided to dual-sided, were you still a shit footballer (albeit now dual-sided)? Because there is a world of difference between being a dual-sided shit footballer who never really gets his dual-sidedness tested except at training to an elite footballer who will get tested every single time by other elite footballers.

Oh and 1 week....really?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:47 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:40 am
Posts: 201
Location: Carlton
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blah, blah, blah........
Same negative bullshit with no solutions.
Boring as usual.


Boring
Yeah maybe
Solutions
Definitely
Have a read
The club give away picks again

Let me ask you this
I am intrigued by your pending answer
Adam Saad has 4 years left on a deal worth around $650000 a season
He cost us pick 10 basically
He is the most one sided player I have seen for a while
Clearly it’s a problem that GC Essendon** and Carlton have not addressed and it strikes me as incredibly lazy on his behalf
You could solve the problem with a weeks training
I did it in my younger years and I was a shit footballer
He then with some aerobic fitness become a better player playing more versatile roles

Why doesn’t it happen
As a club I wouldn’t have given up so much for such a limited player but now you have invested so much in him wouldn’t you push him to change
I’m just asking the question to you or anyone else?


a week :lol:

Imagine how much better the late, great Diego Maradona could have been if he spent just a week practicing on his right foot.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:14 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 5944
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blah, blah, blah........
Same negative bullshit with no solutions.
Boring as usual.


Boring
Yeah maybe
Solutions
Definitely
Have a read
The club give away picks again

Let me ask you this
I am intrigued by your pending answer
Adam Saad has 4 years left on a deal worth around $650000 a season
He cost us pick 10 basically
He is the most one sided player I have seen for a while
Clearly it’s a problem that GC Essendon** and Carlton have not addressed and it strikes me as incredibly lazy on his behalf
You could solve the problem with a weeks training
I did it in my younger years and I was a shit footballer
He then with some aerobic fitness become a better player playing more versatile roles

Why doesn’t it happen
As a club I wouldn’t have given up so much for such a limited player but now you have invested so much in him wouldn’t you push him to change
I’m just asking the question to you or anyone else?


Anyhow , just changing the subject a tad , i 'll betcha a squillion that when " Special K " was playing his shit football in that shit league and there was an " All In " he was the first one there . Right or wrong " K " ?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:31 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17569
Nah, he would have gone missing during the event and turned up later to tell his team mates what they did wrong

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:42 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17569
keogh wrote:
I always look at the premiership team and how they entered the AFL
Melbourne this year
AFL National Draft
Picks 1-10 5( some obvious guns there)
Picks 10-19 2
Picks 20-29 4
Picks 30-39 5
Picks 40-49 2
Picks 50-59 2
Rookie elevation 1
Pre Season 1
Zone 1
The majority have played for Melbourne from the time they were drafted as kids
They got Brown for nothing for a specific purpose
May was pretty much a swap for Hogan
Lever cost plenty they got pick 35 which was used to get Penny

They built their culture from the ground up
They trusted themselves to get there
People off field were trusted to get there with the right support


Melbourne have used 2 x top 20 picks in the past 5 years. 2 in 5 years!
You cherry pick the stats that partially suit your argument.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:29 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
dannyboy wrote:
keogh wrote:

Let me ask you this
I am intrigued by your pending answer
Adam Saad has 4 years left on a deal worth around $650000 a season
He cost us pick 10 basically
He is the most one sided player I have seen for a while
Clearly it’s a problem that GC Essendon*** and Carlton have not addressed and it strikes me as incredibly lazy on his behalf
You could solve the problem with a weeks training
I did it in my younger years and I was a shit footballer
He then with some aerobic fitness become a better player playing more versatile roles


Okay just curious, when you were a shit footballer and turned yourself in a week from one-sided to dual-sided, were you still a shit footballer (albeit now dual-sided)? Because there is a world of difference between being a dual-sided shit footballer who never really gets his dual-sidedness tested except at training to an elite footballer who will get tested every single time by other elite footballers.

Oh and 1 week....really?

Took me three hours on an oval by myself one day
I do it because the game before I was running left towards the boundary and didn’t have time to go to my right side
I tried to got caught
Holding the ball
Goal to the opposition
Like Saad does from time to time
It’s fixable particularly when he is a full time footballer
Who if he fixes it will add to the team

Isn’t that what we all want
Maybe Voss will be unique
Have less meetings and refuse to play blokes who for whatever reason don’t want to improve themselves


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17270
Location: threeohfivethree
I taught myself to kick 80 metre torps in 17 minutes.

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Mort Sahl


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:45 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
GWS wrote:
I taught myself to kick 80 metre torps in 17 minutes.


Into a howling wind


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17270
Location: threeohfivethree
keogh wrote:
GWS wrote:
I taught myself to kick 80 metre torps in 17 minutes.


Into a howling wind


Almost a cyclone actually.

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"Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen."

Mort Sahl


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17569
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overall picture. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:55 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overview. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:


Hang on a minute
You want some solutions from me
I give one and you are just negative
Don’t you want us to get better

This is not negative
It’s a fact
14 of the last 21 years we have finished bottom 6
Why
According to the club it’s because of the last 6 coaches based on the their contracts not lasting the distance
Even you would acknowledge that there must be other reasons

Saad is overrated
He needs to be challenged to get better
All the little things count
Case in point
When we played WC reserves in Sydney the only guy that could win the game for them was Ryan
Argue that one
Good luck
Where was Saad.
Not playing on him
Neither was Williams
Neither was Docherty
The job for the entire game was handed to Stocker a kid in his 8 th or 9 th game

That my friend is [REDACTED]
It don’t make sense
I hope Voss challenges all the players
Saad has cost us goals chasing kicks not having a right side not been given the big jobs
He didn’t play on Toby either

So pull your head out of you know what
All things matter
You wrote yourself that the new coach must be innovative
How about making sure all players use both sides of their body
Play in multiple positions
That would make us harder to play against

As usual you can’t see the forest from the trees


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
no way i would of given p8 for saad and i wouldnt give p6 for cerra ,need to trust the recruiters and go to the draft or play hard ball with managers


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17569
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overview. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:


Hang on a minute
You want some solutions from me
I give one and you are just negative
Don’t you want us to get better


You'll have to direct me to your "solution". I don't see sooking about Saad, being remotely close to a solution.
It's just more of the same negativity.
Happy to be educated though. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17270
Location: threeohfivethree
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overview. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:


Hang on a minute
You want some solutions from me
I give one and you are just negative
Don’t you want us to get better


You'll have to direct me to your "solution". I don't see sooking about Saad, being remotely close to a solution.
It's just more of the same negativity.
Happy to be educated though. :thumbsup:


The solution is to teach him to kick as well on his non-preferred foot as his preferred foot in a week.

I still can’t work out why none of his football coaches have ever thought of this.

It must be Carlton’s fault!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 16704
Location: Left Cuckistan
The solution is to go to the draft and back in our recruiters.
Also, Dow is a bust and LOB is a cat.

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Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overview. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:


Hang on a minute
You want some solutions from me
I give one and you are just negative
Don’t you want us to get better


You'll have to direct me to your "solution". I don't see sooking about Saad, being remotely close to a solution.
It's just more of the same negativity.
Happy to be educated though. :thumbsup:

I thought it was a solution
Other than coac being innovative you have given any
What about the midfield
Adding Cerra and Hewett doesn’t solve the total problem
Got a solution
I’ve given you mine if you go back and read


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:06 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5990
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
He BV
Any SOLUTIONS for Saad
Still curious or are you just going to be negative


i couldn't give four fifths of a @#$%&! about Saad's non dominant side.
Sam Walsh also kicks on the outside of his preferred foot when corralled. Once again I couldn't care because he's a gun player and his strengths overwhelmingly surpass his weaknesses.
All this does is highlight exactly what I've been saying. You focus on the negative of everything, I look past the negatives to see the overview. Saad has weaknesses but he was still good enough to finish top 3 in B&F's in 2019 and 2020. And despite carrying injuries, he'll finish high up in ours as well.
I'm rapt he's on our team and with a coach that will hopefully utilise his assets, I expect him to be an absolute star for us in 2022.

So as to your question about solutions, I don't see a significant problem to solve. :thumbsup:


Hang on a minute
You want some solutions from me
I give one and you are just negative
Don’t you want us to get better


You'll have to direct me to your "solution". I don't see sooking about Saad, being remotely close to a solution.
It's just more of the same negativity.
Happy to be educated though. :thumbsup:

I thought it was a solution
Other than coach being innovative you have given none
What about the midfield
Adding Cerra and Hewett doesn’t solve the total problem
Got a solution
I’ve given you mine if you go back and read


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:13 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
I always look at the premiership team and how they entered the AFL
Melbourne this year
AFL National Draft
Picks 1-10 5( some obvious guns there)
Picks 10-19 2
Picks 20-29 4
Picks 30-39 5
Picks 40-49 2
Picks 50-59 2
Rookie elevation 1
Pre Season 1
Zone 1
The majority have played for Melbourne from the time they were drafted as kids
They got Brown for nothing for a specific purpose
May was pretty much a swap for Hogan
Lever cost plenty they got pick 35 which was used to get Penny

They built their culture from the ground up
They trusted themselves to get there
People off field were trusted to get there with the right support


Melbourne have used 2 x top 20 picks in the past 5 years. 2 in 5 years!
You cherry pick the stats that partially suit your argument.


Spot on.

He is cherry picking and doesn't actually give the forum all the facts. Ever.
Like when the rebuild started for Melbourne. You may ask, which rebuild? :grin:

But even if he wants to cherry pick rebuilds, the latest "reset" with generous AFL assistance supplying a coach (Roos) and a new CEO (Jackson), a book a fitness guru, new recruitment team...sound similar??? well, the start of their recent rebuild was at the 2013 Draft, when Dees already had Brown, Gawn, Viney, Howe, Dunn, T. McDonald, Frawley, Jetta, Dawes (Pick 1 Watts, Pick 2 Trengrove, Pick 4 Toumpas) etc etc....they got Neil Craig as Director of coaching, new assistants ....miles ahead in terms of personnel than Carlton was when their rebuild started.


Point is ours started in 2015 without the Trade collateral Dees had, and no AFL Assistance, but plenty hinderance.... yet everything Carlton does for keogh and the Carlton One mob is bad.

Dees took 8 years to win the Flag ...against a bashed up opponent. The cards fell their way, but they put themselves in a position to contest for the Holy Grail.

Carlton's journey is 2 years behind Dees, but they had a lot of things in their favour. Carlton today are in great shape despite all the doom and gloom from keogh, CVarlton One and the headline seeking anti Carlton media. I've heard a bunch of lies, plenty of cherry picking and headlines taken out of context and lies that no one wanted to come to Carlton, players, coaches along with assistants.

I stopped responding to made up facts, but there comes a time when this anti Carlton vitriol gets to me.

As for the defamation of Saad ... tell me anyone, anywhere who has had a bad word to say about Saad, other than keogh. How his coach played him is another story. He is so quick and talented he's one who doesn't need a right foot, and I'm usually a stickler for ability on both sides of the body. He's that quick ... keoghs is a moot point. I can kick and handball on both sides, played at a high level, but I was shit compared to saad. Not many are in his stratosphere mate. Get real picking on his right peg, when the guy shows everyone he doesn't need one like us mere mortals.

.. and how many first round picks have Dees Traded since their rebuild?

In 2019 Dees traded up to get a first round pick, Pickett , and had the other from ladder position for Jackson.
In 2015 Dees had 2 first round picks with Oliver and Weideman
In 2014 Dees had 2 first round picks with Petracca and Brayshaw
In 2013 Dees had 1 first round pick with Salem

Answer is 4 first round picks traded by Dees to get this far.

... and you criticise Carlton's trading of pick 8 and pick 10 in 2020 and 2021 after amassing 11 first round picks since 2015! FMD!

keogh... love yu mate, even with your Effendope viewpoints of everything Carlton, but you're working yourself up to a lather again...frothing at the mouth.

Lets stick to facts, and look forward to a new era...a reset. Give the club a break. There's more good coming than bad. But give us all the facts, not cherry pick the ones you want aimed at slandering everything Carlton.

The Blues have a very good list, albeit underdeveloped, but a good list nonetheless.
Of field, never been better. Never.
The coaching and development group is the best this century.
The Fitness Guru doesn't have a coach barking instructions and telling him how to do his job.

There's still years to run with the contacts of Williams, Martin and Saad. The jury is still out. Gov too...but sorry SOS, he's a bust...so were plenty for the recent Premiers: that's life...and that's in the past and we are still working towards a Top 4 finish to give us a chance, that will come.

Cerra 22yo, Hewett 26yo, Young 21yo and pick 25 to come is nothing short of brilliant.

Smell the roses and stop the bullshit keogh and thank Mr Sayers for having the guts to raise the bar and discard the under performing.

Please :wink:

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