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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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frank dardew wrote:
Great post ABNS I agree I have not given up on Dow and OBrien
I would not trade them unless we got a fantastic deal .
Both as you say have attributes that we don’t have in great supply .
Both were obviously disappointing this year but have in my view shown in previous seasons enough to suggest they have potential to be competent senior players .

Agree 100% Frank.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Its amazing how your expectations shift.
I think that the main Pro this year is I actually considered tipping the Blues in every game. I actually thought if we got it together we could have beaten anyone.
I haven't felt that way for years.
The Con was we didn't beat enough teams and threw away to many games that we should have won.

I should be excited about the future but the disappointment of losing games we should have won is totally pissing me off.

We could go either way next year which worries the tripe out of me

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+1
I know I have to let it go but really, we could've won every game this year apart from the Richmond game
And yes, we could just as easily have lost some of the ones we won
On balance, my view is that we should now be getting excited about playing at least one final
For 2021:
1. Find Teague some quality assistants with experience in a winning/GF culture, maybe even a Director of Coaching
2. Teague to reflect on his shortcomings as a coach...he'll need to work that out with those at the club who undertake peer reviews at the end of the year
3. Teague to work on a plan of amelioration after the aforementioned reflection
4. Get a couple of quality mids/hb/small forwards to improve list

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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aboynamedsue wrote:
I think the improvement will need to largely come from within in 2021


I just got around to watching Teague’s presser from last night and he said exactly this.

Things can change, but it sounds like we’re banking on improvement from what we have rather than trading aggressively.

Staying the course with this group makes sense to me; it’s been a long rebuild and they have shown enough to justify that approach, but - as Teague said last night - they simply must improve in 2021.

Hopefully we can improve our list via a quality FA and astute DFA/NB selections, but what will really improve us as a club is the current core cattle realising their potential.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14800
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
I know you need to give something good to get something good, but my instinct with Dow is to keep him. Dow is exactly the type of player we need if he can get his act together. I appreciate that’s a rather big “if”.

Different story if he wants out, which might be the case if he feels he needs a fresh start. My asking price would be steep though....

I’m a little more minded to trade SPS if a reasonable offer is out there. If he stays, he needs to graduate to a mid/forward role.


I agree. Keep Dow for another year. I'd also keep SPS for another year but the needs significant re-programming.
No more of these bullshit dinky 10 metre sideway kicks. He needs to hit targets 40 metres away. He has the talent but we've let him get away with the crap he's turning out since day 1.


Maybe the coaches have encouraged him to hit a target when he sees one because he's the only one capable.


Hitting a target 10 metres away sideways doesn't advantage the team. It just allows the opposition time to push back.
If the coaches encourage it, they should be sacked.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Pros:
Setterfield becoming an effective inside mid. Thought he was still too slight for the role but he's done well - lots more clearances, contested possessions and tackles. Good hands in close.
Walsh work ethic and never give up attitude.
Harry second half of the year.
Docherty return, although it's interesting teams locked down on him after 4-5 rounds. He ran amok early - 26, 24, 23, 32, 20 in his first five games then only one game with 20+ disposals.
Solid season from Martin, but needs to be doing it more often.
Newnes a solid season.
Fisher looked great as a creative small forward.
Weitering an excellent year
Jones very good year.
Plowman a pretty solid season.
TDK progress
Williamson's durability.

Cons
Still lack class/depth in the midfield. Yes we beat the Dogs, but look at the depth and class in that midfield - Hunter, Bontempelli, Macrae, Dunkley, Liberatore, Bailey Smith. Look at West Coast - Shuey, Yeo, T Kelly, Gaff, Sheed
We don't have that depth, and until we do it's hard to see us getting in a position to have a tilt for a premiership. Ed Curnow still a key midfielder (not his fault, he busts a gut).
Still lack class/depth in the small forward stakes - cameos from Cuningham, Gibbons, Betts.
McGovern - it's frustrating because he's actually very talented.
Marchbank's inability to get on the park.
Cripps down season
Charlie injury
Newman injury
Stocker's absence.

Dow/O'Brien/SPS - stagnated/gone backwards. Three critical early picks and the signs are not great.

SOS did a good job with the talls but it's not looking good in terms of building a good group of mids/smalls.

Can't understand what is happening with M Kennedy - shows glimpses in the midfield but doesn't seem to get a big run at it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 1166
keogh wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


Our contested ball is ok
It’s the run we need


I agree with both Cazz and you. "Hard nosed contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins" are also hard runners ... when the ball escapes their immediate area they keep moving to hunt the ball or dispossess the opposition. The likes of SPS and Dow can't rack up the big numbers in midfield because they lack the hunt in the first instance and when the ball escapes them by 3 metres they are on most occassions out of the picture.

Yes, our run is poor ... we have little connection from half back and centre line, hence there is no surge coming through the arcs. Likewise with our contested ball winning ... the ball winner is often kicking off one step as their is little movement running wide off them to handball and if there is then very rarely is there is a secondary player who has moved well into space and receiving into the open and surging.

Take a look at Richmond ... win possession and then it is flick, flick


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4752
bondiblue wrote:
keogh wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
PROS
- Walsh. No second year blues, in fact he improved in difficult circumstances and is a B&F chance. Gun.
- Weitering. Has become the player we hoped he would be. An example for persisting with young talent because he had his doubters 18 months ago. Dow & O’Brien take note!
- Martin. We’d like him to be more consistent, but for a guy we got for nothing he has been a resounding success. A match winner type.
- Setterfield. After a shaky start to the year, established himself and should get better. I wish more tackled like him.
- Newnes & Pittonet. Exceeded expectations and should be handy over the next few seasons.
- Docherty & Williamson. Their form fluctuated, but it was great to see them back out there. They will be better next year.
- TDK & Harry. It’s exciting to have couple of talented young talls coming through. I’ve been critical of Harry but it looked the penny started to drop late in the season.
- E Curnow, Gibbons & Plowman were solid.
- Cottrall, Philp, Honey & Owies got a taste.
- Number of quarters won.

CONS
- No proper reserves competition meant our group of young players missed a year of development and the step up from 12 a side scratch matches to AFL was simply too much when they came in.
- Dow, O’Brien, Cunningham & McGovern did not take the steps forward we needed them to.
- Charlie, SOJ, Newman, Marchbank & Macreadie had wasted years.
- Stocker. We still don’t know what happened there. I hope he is busy getting fit somewhere.
- Kreuzer. The end came quickly and cruelly.
- Our bad was the worst in the competition and we showed it too often.

SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN
- Betts helped us pick up some extra members, TV viewers and ‘good will’ - but his on field impact was marginal. He applied good forward pressure and was like playing assistant coach, but simply did not kick enough goals.
- Murphy’s season was not as bad as some say (I expect him to be top 10 in the B&F) but it is an indictment on our young mids that he is still comfortably in our best 22.
- Casboult was a Pro in the first half of the year and a Con in the second half. He served up some absolute rubbish late in the season. He may have been carrying an injury, or the mental/emotional toll of 2020 may have got to him. It’s a shame because he was terrific before that.
- Cripps did not have one of his better seasons, but on the flip side, we won games when he was quiet. In fact, I thought there were times we looked better when he was out of the middle.
- Simmo retiring while still playing good footy.

WHERE WILL THE IMPROVEMENT COME IN 2021?
We will be better with Charlie, Marchbank, Newman, SOJ & Kemp available. But that’s offset to a degree by the loss of Simmo and the inevitability of other injuries.
A lot rests on the continued improvement of Docherty, Fisher, Harry, Setterfield, SPS, TDK & Williamson.
Martin, Walsh & Weitering must maintain their 2020 form; and we need at least a couple of Cottrell, Cunningham, Dow, Honey, Kemp, O’Brien, Philp, Ramsay & Stocker to step up a level.
Cripps should have a better year in 2021.

DELISTINGS/TRADES
It’s a very important off season coming up. Wrong decisions on our list could set us back significantly at this point. I suspect that the likes of Dow & SPS won’t attract the return to make trading them worthwhile. Moreover, the club has publicly said it will look to stabilise the list; ie. no major turnover planned.
Accordingly, I expect us to make the minimum number of delistings (noting the minimum number will increase if list sizes are reduced).
Kreuzer, Lang, O’Dwyer, Simpson & Goddard (rookie list) will be cut. Kennedy, Macreadie, Polson, B.Silvagni & Owies (rookie list) could go too, depending on list numbers next year.

RECRUITMENT PRIORITIES
It’s a no brainer, the best result would be to land a quality midfielder via FA so that we don’t need to trade out good players or picks. Carlton has not been good at doing this, so Austin & co will need to work very hard to turn it around.
A ruckman (ideally a 21-24 year old from another club or state leagues) and a small forward are needs I would attempt to address via DFA (there might be some decent players available via DFA this year, due to reduced lists), secondary trades (mid/late draft picks) or in the draft itself.

In short, I think the improvement will need to largely come from within in 2021; it will be a massive, massive bonus if we can somehow attract a quality midfielder via FA.


I agree with most of it
Not on Martin
Setterfield needs to get his hands dirty. He is often second in line at ball ups
That’s why his tackle numbers are high

Free Agency
I have said no
I’ll retract
Yes but it’s got to be the right player
We need a runner
Not a slow inside beast

On Martin
He isn’t as good as people make out
As I said before the industry for whatever reason overrates certain players
Shiel Cogs
Martin couldn’t even get a game at GC at times
Needs a rocket up his arse


Care to elaborate on that.

Prefer something closer to the truth as to why he was dropped.


...and what do people make out of Martin's form or ability you don't agree with? Interested to see who said he was as good if not better than Dusty, Danger, Cripps ... or whoever....that should tell us something about those posters.


Frank Zappa and the Mother’s of Invention
Album
Where only in it for the money
Does that apply to his effort in the first quarter that lead to Mc Carthy’s goal
Pathetic
Instead of putting his head over the ball he squibbed it big time

I repeat Ryan Houlihan 201 games
That’s embarrassing
I’m sure Ryan is a decent bloke
But 201 games
That’s embarrassing man
It’s being going on for too long
If your half arsed play some where else
You want to play finals change the culture


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Hawthorn are shit but they played for Stratton and Poppy today


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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aboynamedsue wrote:
I know you need to give something good to get something good, but my instinct with Dow is to keep him. Dow is exactly the type of player we need if he can get his act together. I appreciate that’s a rather big “if”.

Different story if he wants out, which might be the case if he feels he needs a fresh start. My asking price would be steep though....

I’m a little more minded to trade SPS if a reasonable offer is out there. If he stays, he needs to graduate to a mid/forward role.


I want to keep them both but obviously that depends on improvement from them as well.
SPS worries me. He has all the skills but he is timid with ball in hand. He is very double sided and should be able to take ground with every possession in space. His instinct is to go back and take the kick and go short. I think he is too scared he is going to make a mistake.
Dow just seems to have lost his way. In his first season he seemed more confident.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:52 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 14041
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
I know you need to give something good to get something good, but my instinct with Dow is to keep him. Dow is exactly the type of player we need if he can get his act together. I appreciate that’s a rather big “if”.

Different story if he wants out, which might be the case if he feels he needs a fresh start. My asking price would be steep though....

I’m a little more minded to trade SPS if a reasonable offer is out there. If he stays, he needs to graduate to a mid/forward role.


I agree. Keep Dow for another year. I'd also keep SPS for another year but the needs significant re-programming.
No more of these bullshit dinky 10 metre sideway kicks. He needs to hit targets 40 metres away. He has the talent but we've let him get away with the crap he's turning out since day 1.


Maybe the coaches have encouraged him to hit a target when he sees one because he's the only one capable.


Hitting a target 10 metres away sideways doesn't advantage the team. It just allows the opposition time to push back.
If the coaches encourage it, they should be sacked.


I wouldn' be surprised if those short passes have something to do with tempo footy, holding onto ball, keeping out of opponents control for longer.

I keep hearing this criticism of SPS and I think posters believe that's all he does, and don't see the need, despite seeing the game on the box. I see why he does those short passes, because I can't see further up field on tv. I have also seen SPS find players 40 ,metres away by foot. My conclusion if there's targets to hit he hits them at 10, 15 or 30-40, or, if within 30-40 of the 50 metre carc, bomb it long as have been the modus operandi in 2020. He doesn't seem to be kicking those short ones when he's within reach of the arc.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:04 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 2437
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


AND have got some zip and appetite to move the ball

Con:
Lost to 5 teams in the 8 by 17 points or more in a low scoring season


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:08 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Blue Vain wrote:

Hitting a target 10 metres away sideways doesn't advantage the team. It just allows the opposition time to push back.
If the coaches encourage it, they should be sacked.


hallelujah :donk:


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:13 am 
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Horrie Clover
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london blue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


AND have got some zip and appetite to move the ball

Con:
Lost to 5 teams in the 8 by 17 points or more in a low scoring season


Whether players were weary or not but the highlights showed how slow we were to chase and apply pressure. Kennedy and Murphy were two examples. Foot speed offensively and defensively is of equal importance.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:33 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 14041
Location: Bondi Beach
Beijing Blue wrote:
london blue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


AND have got some zip and appetite to move the ball

Con:
Lost to 5 teams in the 8 by 17 points or more in a low scoring season


Whether players were weary or not but the highlights showed how slow we were to chase and apply pressure. Kennedy and Murphy were two examples. Foot speed offensively and defensively is of equal importance.


Hopefully a big preseason and a seriously good sprint coach can get those 2 to the level required for AFL.

Lack of ability to run defensively is a liability that is too hard to hide, especially in the midfield.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:01 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Location: Half back flank
Pros:

- The Newnes goal. Iconic moment in the club's history & so nice for supporters to finally be on the right end of one of these games
- TDK. I hadn't seen him play before this year but went from 0 to 100 in my appreciation of him very quickly, even though he didn't play a lot of games
- No thrashings. Understand that's a weird thing to celebrate, but look where we've come from


Cons:

- Leading GWS by 15 points at 3q time & losing. Just terrible given most sides held on to 3q time leads this year.
- Really think we could've learned more about midfield options this year. I thought Honey deserved a game or 2 more than what he got, for example
- Forward line too crowded with no crumbing options once Eddie's form dropped away

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 392
pros ; we didn't really get belted in 2020 Cons; our under12 game plan get ball and boot it


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:09 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:16 am
Posts: 60
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
I know you need to give something good to get something good, but my instinct with Dow is to keep him. Dow is exactly the type of player we need if he can get his act together. I appreciate that’s a rather big “if”.

Different story if he wants out, which might be the case if he feels he needs a fresh start. My asking price would be steep though....

I’m a little more minded to trade SPS if a reasonable offer is out there. If he stays, he needs to graduate to a mid/forward role.


I agree. Keep Dow for another year. I'd also keep SPS for another year but the needs significant re-programming.
No more of these bullshit dinky 10 metre sideway kicks. He needs to hit targets 40 metres away. He has the talent but we've let him get away with the crap he's turning out since day 1.


Maybe the coaches have encouraged him to hit a target when he sees one because he's the only one capable.


Hitting a target 10 metres away sideways doesn't advantage the team. It just allows the opposition time to push back.
If the coaches encourage it, they should be sacked.


I wouldn' be surprised if those short passes have something to do with tempo footy, holding onto ball, keeping out of opponents control for longer.

I keep hearing this criticism of SPS and I think posters believe that's all he does, and don't see the need, despite seeing the game on the box. I see why he does those short passes, because I can't see further up field on tv. I have also seen SPS find players 40 ,metres away by foot. My conclusion if there's targets to hit he hits them at 10, 15 or 30-40, or, if within 30-40 of the 50 metre carc, bomb it long as have been the modus operandi in 2020. He doesn't seem to be kicking those short ones when he's within reach of the arc.


I agree with this.

SPS ball use isn't the issue imo. I find his attack on the ba and player worrying - always reaching out, he doesn't play with fknals like intensity.

Nevertheless, he's an asset to the team and he improved this year.

Setters :thumbsup: :thumbsup: fish :thumbsup: Kennedy :thumbsup: Walsh :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hopefully a thumbs up for Dow next year and the boys above keep improving and that's some natural progression for the team.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:43 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Love the intensity of the Port onballers tonight against Collingwood. They all are ferocious at the ball. 100% See ball, get ball mentality.

Boak is such a marvelous leader and sets the standard.

That is the Beast mentality I want to see. Take the ball, take the man, take the hit.

I miss Robbo. I know why we let him go but I still miss him.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Cazzesman wrote:
Love the intensity of the Port onballers tonight against Collingwood. They all are ferocious at the ball. 100% See ball, get ball mentality.

Boak is such a marvelous leader and sets the standard.

That is the Beast mentality I want to see. Take the ball, take the man, take the hit.

I miss Robbo. I know why we let him go but I still miss him.

Regards Cazzesman

100% agree


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:09 am 
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Bruce Doull
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It's difficult not to be a fan of Port right now (unless you live in SA, I'm guessing). They just get the job done without fuss.

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