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 Post subject: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:13 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 3790
Hi all,
These are my pros and cons for the year. I would be interested in hearing how others viewed the year:

Pros
- Docherty, Williamson and Cunningham got through the year unscathed.
- Significant improvement in Harry, Setters and Fish.
- DeKoning showing that he is an exciting ruck prospect.
- Walsh and Weiters stars continue to rise.
- Getting Jack Martin for nothing a real bonus.
- Pittonet and Newnes smart recruiting.
- I liked the look of Philp and think getting both him and Kemp for one top 10 pick should work out well for us.

Cons
- Dow and O'Brien not coming on as hoped.
- SPS a nice player but won't be the top line midfielder we badly need.
- Marchbank not getting on the park. Future looks doubtful.
- McGovern underwhelming again.
- A wasted year for Stocker. I think he has talent and I hope he can reach his potential.
- Cripps drop in form a concern, will he return to the player he once was? A positive is that we learnt to not rely on him so much this year.

On a positive note if we can recruit Zac Williams as a FA, trade for an established quality mid and get Charlie Curnow back to top form I think the next few years are looking very rosy for us.

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Last edited by Humpers on Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 9695
Location: Coburg
Pros:
Same players as you Humpers, except Cunningham, just don't think he does enough.
That we can play well anywhere and against anyone

Cons
Those runs. If we cannot fix that then middle of the road or worse is where we'll get stuck.
Too many players with little influence on games. The number of players each week or touched the ball less than 10 times!!!!
McGovern - If we could off load him for a 4th I'd take it in a flash or see of we can turn him into a fullback, Ironhands can't mark the ball, maybe he can punch it.
Cas after about 8 games - just seemed to lose it, too many angry pills - too far from home? We know its all about his mental state, perhaps time away just sapped it?
Curnow/Marchbank - bloody hell I hope we can get these two on the park.
Midfield development - at the moment its called Walsh and that isn't enough.
Scoring from forward 50 entries - Must be fixed.

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Author: Danny Fahey
Publisher: Dragonfall Press (http://www.dragonfallpress.com)
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:49 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 4752
Love it Danny boy
After banging on repeating repeating myself over and over again about what a diabolical trade it was you now want to offload McGovern for a 4 th rounder. :wink:

No more soft players please
We desperately need players that will run hard all day both ways
Unless the rules change drastically, you have 5 to 6 guys who play permanently in one half of the ground
The other 16 our mids
Cripps( with one arm)
Curnow
Walsh
Great
The rest not good enough
That’s why we get smashed in quarters all year
We are a good contested ball team but our run and pressure is so poor
Good to see Williamson playing on a wing. Further up
The ground. He looked a better player
Play blokes who are prepared to run hard for 4 quarters


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:03 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 543
Pros:
Setterfield, Weitering, Walsh, Harry, SPS, Martin, Docherty, Williamson, DeKoning, Gibbons, Cottrell
Plenty of room for improvement for many others
Matched it with the big teams and could have won most of them.
Solid gameplan just need players to be able to execute

Cons:
Charlie, Marchbank, Jack not having an impact this season
McGovern - surplus to requirements
Onfield leadership needs big improvement stemming five goal turnarounds in 10 minutes which costed us games
Need to challenge each other more on field rather than playing like best mates - not enough big moment plays and maybe players to challenge for top four or stem momentum which is disappointing.
Dow and O Brien just need more time and thats disappointing considering they were high draft picks.
Not enough hard edge and grit in many games played and need to be harder at the contest.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:13 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 9695
Location: Coburg
One can always hope Keogh.

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Publisher: Dragonfall Press (http://www.dragonfallpress.com)
http://dannybfahey.blogspot.com.au/


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:26 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 11181
Location: Melbourne
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:40 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 32536
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
Pros:
- Emergence of Walsh and Weitering as the future leaders of this club
- Harry McKay starting to realise his potential
- The number of quarters won (we're right up there)
- A solid, settled back 7
- Docherty and Williamson getting through unscathed
- De Koning and Pittonet will be a handy duo going forward
- Setterfield improving
- Making some of the best teams in the comp shit their pants
- Betts' and Cas' starts to the year

Cons
- The lapses....the @#$%&! lapses
- Lack of composure and poor decision-making
- Mental and physical softness - seriously, what do we gain from being a 'nice' team? Are we more respected by people outside the club? Do the umpires treat us any better?
- Kicking for goal has been shocking for years
- Player management during this run of games has been poor
- Ball movement into the forward line is disgusting
- McGovern and SPS need a serious kick up the arse, or to get traded
- Losing Simmo instead of other veterans who should've gone first
- Zero output from C.Curnow, Marchbank, Stocker, Dow and LOB (I guess Kemp counts too)
- Betts' and Cas' finishes to the year

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:44 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 4752
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


Our contested ball is ok
It’s the run we need


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:18 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 9695
Location: Coburg
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


Yep

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Title: Catalina
Author: Danny Fahey
Publisher: Dragonfall Press (http://www.dragonfallpress.com)
http://dannybfahey.blogspot.com.au/


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:25 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 9588
Location: Brisbane
Pros:


Thank you once again to all TCers for your contributions this season.

Educational, entertaining, and, I have to say it, a big part of my life.




Cons:


A big part of my life. :yikes:




:smile:

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:38 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 9588
Location: Brisbane
Pros:

Unexpected win over Geelong, in Geelong.

Consistency from players like Walsh and Weitering.






Cons:

Disgraceful performance against Adelaide and Hawthorn.



Not physically tough, enough.
Too many turnovers.
Too many missed tackles.
Too many missed shots on goal.
Too many ordinary forward entries.
Inability to take marks on the lead inside forward 50.
Inconsistency from far too many players.
Multiple poor player selections.

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:40 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 339
Thanks Humpers for starting this thread.

Pros:
- think we have improved this year (we’re up there for quarters won, our biggest loss was 5 goals so we were pretty much always competitive, we remained a genuine finals chance until 3-4 games to go)
- the emergence of Weiters and Walshy as genuine future stars
- development of Harry and Setters
- return of Doc and Willo after 2 years out
- emergence of TDK
- recruitment of Martin, Pitto and Newnes
- Ed Curnow’s late career form
- giving a taste of senior footy to Cottrell, Philp, Honey and Owies

Cons:
- the complete inability to stop opposition momentum and runs (which ultimately cost us a lot of wins)
- mental weakness when expectation was placed on us (horrible performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn, and not much better against North and Syndey)
- mental weakness in key moments / pressure situations (up 2 points against Collingwood at 3 quarter time with finals on the line and capitulated, same the next game vs GWS when up 15 at the final change)
- the development (or lack thereof) of Dow and LOB
- not giving midfield opportunities to SPS, Fisher and Cunners
- injuries ruined the season of key youngsters (Charlie, Marchy, JSOS)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 6515
Pros:

Won 39 qtrs, one off the top, showing we are highly competitive against anyone, even the best. Encouraging!

Cons:

Won 39 qtrs and finished 13th. The number of qtrs won should've had us top 6 but it tells a huge story of where our issues are. Those bad qtrs/run ons/choking cost us a finals. Maybe it is telling us a story to that, while very competitive against anyone, we weren't quite mentally ready to take the step there. Frustrating!


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 1088
pros:
There's always next year to look forward to.

Cons:
Like already stated - the inability to stop opposition runs. Gives me the shits.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2279
Waste of a year


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1314
Pros

Weitering and Walsh
Setterfield has improved
Competitive
McKay looks promising, however needs a better midfield to fulfil potential

Cons

Lack of player development with our early draft picks and second tier midfielders such as Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Fisher & Cunningham. Could result in a failed rebuild if there is no significant improvement in 2021.

Murphy softness
Betts cooked and getting another contract
Lack of cohesive ball movement
Loser mentality still pervades this club
Cripps yet to sign an extension to contract


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:44 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8605
redback wrote:
Waste of a year


:lol:

Old school redback - positive reinforcement. :idea:

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 6515
WOW wrote:
Pros

Weitering and Walsh
Setterfield has improved
Competitive
McKay looks promising, however needs a better midfield to fulfil potential

Cons

Lack of player development with our early draft picks and second tier midfielders such as Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Fisher & Cunningham. Could result in a failed rebuild if there is no significant improvement in 2021.

Murphy softness
Betts cooked and getting another contract
Lack of cohesive ball movement
Loser mentality still pervades this club
Cripps yet to sign an extension to contract


One of the issues is we had there was throwing them to the wolves with big jobs way too early when they should've been developing playing lesser roles. I don't think it did them any good whatsoever. Hence why you still need experience when rebuilding. Dow was terrific for the first season and a bit but his confidence got shot performing tasks he wasn't ready for. We id the same with Weitering, and he struggled big time, copped plenty of flak,but thankfully he came good. Bolton playing the kids like that did them no good.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 2684
Cazzesman wrote:
Just looking at our game against the top 5 in terms of quarters won....

Lions won 3 of 4
Port 2.5 of 4 (drew a quarter)
Rich 2 of 4
WCE 1 of 4
Geelong 3 of 4.

11.5 of 20

That tells me that we can match it with the big guys but that 20 min purple patch we allow each team in a game is the killer.

We need hard nosed, contested beasts who hunt the footy for 100 mins.

Regards Cazzesman


Couldn't agree more.
I said this last year and I will repeat it again.
We lack b+ mature age talent in the middle where the game is won and lost.
If the club is serious about stopping these 5 goal lapses, then they need to stop playing around and only target mids.
We don't need small forwards, we don't need running backs, we need mids. And if the other spots become issues next season we can look at them then.
Last night it seemed that Brisbane had just about every midfielder they had on the ground and they all popped up at some point to cause us some damage.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 4156
PROS
- Walsh. No second year blues, in fact he improved in difficult circumstances and is a B&F chance. Gun.
- Weitering. Has become the player we hoped he would be. An example for persisting with young talent because he had his doubters 18 months ago. Dow & O’Brien take note!
- Martin. We’d like him to be more consistent, but for a guy we got for nothing he has been a resounding success. A match winner type.
- Setterfield. After a shaky start to the year, established himself and should get better. I wish more tackled like him.
- Newnes & Pittonet. Exceeded expectations and should be handy over the next few seasons.
- Docherty & Williamson. Their form fluctuated, but it was great to see them back out there. They will be better next year.
- TDK & Harry. It’s exciting to have couple of talented young talls coming through. I’ve been critical of Harry but it looked the penny started to drop late in the season.
- E Curnow, Gibbons & Plowman were solid.
- Cottrall, Philp, Honey & Owies got a taste.
- Number of quarters won.

CONS
- No proper reserves competition meant our group of young players missed a year of development and the step up from 12 a side scratch matches to AFL was simply too much when they came in.
- Dow, O’Brien, Cunningham & McGovern did not take the steps forward we needed them to.
- Charlie, SOJ, Newman, Marchbank & Macreadie had wasted years.
- Stocker. We still don’t know what happened there. I hope he is busy getting fit somewhere.
- Kreuzer. The end came quickly and cruelly.
- Our bad was the worst in the competition and we showed it too often.

SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN
- Betts helped us pick up some extra members, TV viewers and ‘good will’ - but his on field impact was marginal. He applied good forward pressure and was like playing assistant coach, but simply did not kick enough goals.
- Murphy’s season was not as bad as some say (I expect him to be top 10 in the B&F) but it is an indictment on our young mids that he is still comfortably in our best 22.
- Casboult was a Pro in the first half of the year and a Con in the second half. He served up some absolute rubbish late in the season. He may have been carrying an injury, or the mental/emotional toll of 2020 may have got to him. It’s a shame because he was terrific before that.
- Cripps did not have one of his better seasons, but on the flip side, we won games when he was quiet. In fact, I thought there were times we looked better when he was out of the middle.
- Simmo retiring while still playing good footy.

WHERE WILL THE IMPROVEMENT COME IN 2021?
We will be better with Charlie, Marchbank, Newman, SOJ & Kemp available. But that’s offset to a degree by the loss of Simmo and the inevitability of other injuries.
A lot rests on the continued improvement of Docherty, Fisher, Harry, Setterfield, SPS, TDK & Williamson.
Martin, Walsh & Weitering must maintain their 2020 form; and we need at least a couple of Cottrell, Cunningham, Dow, Honey, Kemp, O’Brien, Philp, Ramsay & Stocker to step up a level.
Cripps should have a better year in 2021.

DELISTINGS/TRADES
It’s a very important off season coming up. Wrong decisions on our list could set us back significantly at this point. I suspect that the likes of Dow & SPS won’t attract the return to make trading them worthwhile. Moreover, the club has publicly said it will look to stabilise the list; ie. no major turnover planned.
Accordingly, I expect us to make the minimum number of delistings (noting the minimum number will increase if list sizes are reduced).
Kreuzer, Lang, O’Dwyer, Simpson & Goddard (rookie list) will be cut. Kennedy, Macreadie, Polson, B.Silvagni & Owies (rookie list) could go too, depending on list numbers next year.

RECRUITMENT PRIORITIES
It’s a no brainer, the best result would be to land a quality midfielder via FA so that we don’t need to trade out good players or picks. Carlton has not been good at doing this, so Austin & co will need to work very hard to turn it around.
A ruckman (ideally a 21-24 year old from another club or state leagues) and a small forward are needs I would attempt to address via DFA (there might be some decent players available via DFA this year, due to reduced lists), secondary trades (mid/late draft picks) or in the draft itself.

In short, I think the improvement will need to largely come from within in 2021; it will be a massive, massive bonus if we can somehow attract a quality midfielder via FA.

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