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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:59 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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jim wrote:
redback wrote:
jim wrote:
redback wrote:
jim wrote:
Teague has years of shit to turn around. Was never happening in a season. 13-14 is a massive improvement on the previous 4-40. Just so much horrible shit that has to be turned around. He does need the side to take a step to finals next year though. Been similar to Ratten's first year.



He has had multiple opportunities to make statements and start to change the culture but has failed miserably, too late now. He needs to make a statement with who stays and who goes then keep going. First full year now so he needs to learn fast and and react faster.


We'll know in a couple of years about the culture. If you expected that to be changed in such a short time you are dreaming. Really dreaming. God knows how many years it took Hardwick at Richmond to change those years of horrible culture.

7 wins, doubt it'll be 8, is about 9.25 wins in a normal year. We'd have taken that at the start of the year. The culture and mental aspects has cost us finals this year. I'd leave that in no doubt, and it is really frustrating. 13-14 though is alot better than the previous 4-40. Those other aspects have alot of work ahead though otherwise we'll hit a massive roadblock. Get those right and the physical aspects will be more like the we showed in the Bulldogs game as they'll be great commitment. Years of a losing culture is really turned around in a year though. That's the next test.

7 wins this sounded sounded good at the start but now feels an under-achievement.



You change the culture by demanding the non negotiable in a second, you make a statement that is all inclusive, teague has not done that.


Those habits, 20 years worth, don't change in a year, unless you believe in miracles and have no conception of what that takes. It's not a light switch, alot to do with belief. Hardwick took years. We are not different. Part of it has got better, as we have often found a way to get over the line somehow, but the same issues that got us into those positions have caused unnecessary losses too, like today.


Teague needs to start by holding players accountable, he hasn't done that so they just keep doing the easy thing. I have played with absolute crap teams and some very good ones. Chalk and cheese jim. The good teams demand accountability starting with the coach and the senior players and continuously strive to not fail while the mediocre team have a excuse for failure. We have a young coach and he now needs to stamp his authority on the seniors and make examples of them. I agree we have been shit for a long time if you do not the rot to continue and want to instill a non losing mentality start with the old heads.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:50 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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redback wrote:
jim wrote:
jim wrote:
redback wrote:
jim wrote:
Teague has years of shit to turn around. Was never happening in a season. 13-14 is a massive improvement on the previous 4-40. Just so much horrible shit that has to be turned around. He does need the side to take a step to finals next year though. Been similar to Ratten's first year.



We'll know in a couple of years about the culture. If you expected that to be changed in such a short time you are dreaming. Really dreaming. God knows how many years it took Hardwick at Richmond to change those years of horrible culture.

7 wins, doubt it'll be 8, is about 9.25 wins in a normal year. We'd have taken that at the start of the year. The culture and mental aspects has cost us finals this year. I'd leave that in no doubt, and it is really frustrating. 13-14 though is alot better than the previous 4-40. Those other aspects have alot of work ahead though otherwise we'll hit a massive roadblock. Get those right and the physical aspects will be more like the we showed in the Bulldogs game as they'll be great commitment. Years of a losing culture is really turned around in a year though. That's the next test.

Who's our leader that's going to say "@#$%&! this"?
7 wins this sounded sounded good at the start but now feels an under-achievement.



You change the culture by demanding the non negotiable in a second, you make a statement that is all inclusive, teague has not done that.


Those habits, 20 years worth, don't change in a year, unless you believe in miracles and have no conception of what that takes. It's not a light switch, alot to do with belief. Hardwick took years. We are not different. Part of it has got better, as we have often found a way to get over the line somehow, but the same issues that got us into those positions have caused unnecessary losses too, like today.


Teague needs to start by holding players accountable, he hasn't done that so they just keep doing the easy thing. I have played with absolute crap teams and some very good ones. Chalk and cheese jim. The good teams demand accountability starting with the coach and the senior players and continuously strive to not fail while the mediocre team have a excuse for failure. We have a young coach and he now needs to stamp his authority on the seniors and make examples of them. I agree we have been shit for a long time if you do not the rot to continue and want to instill a non losing mentality start with the old heads.


We don't know what he does behind closed doors but there's alot to what you said. Culture change is huge and easy to slip back into, which we did a few too many times. We fought just about every game out, which was something but too many times we slipped back at the start or during games. We needed the leaders to come out and say, "that's not good enough" and make everyone accountable. Making it come from within the group itself. That's what happened in 2007 when Geelong had failed the year before. After starting 2-3 Paul Chapman spat it and told the playing group, in no uncertain terms, that it wasn't good enough. Lost one more for the year and won the flag by 119pts. Haven't looked back. Think there was something similar in 1995. we lost a practice match to Essendon* by over 100 after an inglorious finish to 1994. Leaders took control and said enough was enough, with the result there for all to see. Sometimes a coach can only push it so many times and it has to come from within.

Who's our leader that's going to stand up and say "@#$%&! this"?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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:thumbsup: Hopefully we can find out who our true leaders are and soon


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:06 pm 
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Banned

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Correct - players during time of pressure need to step in and stop the rot. A big tackle, an elbow to the head, a scuffle, anything to stifle play with hardness and stop the rot and say we dont stand for this if you want to beat us then we're going to make your life hell. Toby Green, Mummy, Cotchin, vlastuin, hodge, lewis, hurn do anything possible to slow momentum and play very very hard. it's the players - some players in womens league are better at this than our whole squad. talent is one thing - wanting to win is another.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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The faith he is showing in the older guys is adorable BUT cmon David enough is enough and it's time we moved past them.
The only time we looked likely today was when Cunningham and Gibbons after 3 quarters were finally played through the midfield.
Shock horror who would have thought that would work.
Maybe just maybe they might use SPS in there or HF at least.
Today broke me.
Adelaide last on the ladder.
Adelaide lost 14 straight and we got embarrassed.
The scoreboard flattered us.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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deano35 wrote:
The faith he is showing in the older guys is adorable BUT cmon David enough is enough and it's time we moved past them.
The only time we looked likely today was when Cunningham and Gibbons after 3 quarters were finally played through the midfield.
Shock horror who would have thought that would work.
Maybe just maybe they might use SPS in there or HF at least.
Today broke me.
Adelaide last on the ladder.
Adelaide lost 14 straight and we got embarrassed.
The scoreboard flattered us.


I'm just glad they hadn't lost 15 straight. That would've been worse.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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keogh wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
I wonder:

I wonder if this team is not Teague's team?

I wonder if Teague's team will have Cripps and Setters and Walsh; the rest he will cast off, not his type - whatever that means.
I wonder if the Gov will be set free, to wander some distant desert land talking a crock of shit while sipping tea - 'oh Lawrence, remember the good old days when the Arabs and we went dancing with the camels?'
I wonder if Fish is doomed to never dance in the center again, a bridesman never a groom? Or worse he too, to make room for a new crop of 'whomevers' that Teague claims as his own.

I wonder if this club is paid by the anguish is brings is a reverse bizarre world to the one that once brought joy, fishing up wins like a plethora of John the Baptist head's bleeding on the platter of our third quarters?And in my ears still rings the pounding of the signage, ah the glory of the yesteryears - who remembers? Who recalls with me the days of gold and plunder?

I wonder what side we might be when we scored every scored rather than one of our two or three?
I wonder if Weitering is sad and sore knowing his body carries the weight of a backline - will he, like Cripps, find Atlas was a god and so a mantle no man can maintain?
I wonder if Harry secretly loves Gov cos he shines all the brighter in that sow's ear of empty illusions - and if so beware, beware the Jabberwocky Curnow the younger, beware the jibbedy-jab that sends your talent trickling into this century's long line of Carlton could-have-beens - perhaps have a chat with Gibbs if you're around Curnow lad, talk to him about missed opportunities. Beware the tale that tells the story of Harry as the one who stood tallest while you fell into the endless cycle of disrepair.

I wonder if Kemp feels a strain on the knee already as expectations grow that he is the next in the hunched-shoulders and weary eyes of so many dismayed saviors?
I wonder if Essendon*** and Carlton are in a heroic struggle to the bottom of the pit? It is too close to call that tussle between the pride and folly of two clubs so lost in the shadows, like moons fallen to the silent lands beneath.
I wonder if I will ever believe again?

Am I then damaged, fallen, lost, trussed up in the twine of too many gloriously explored avenues to losing?
Carlton my Carlton, I remember and that memory makes the present so much harder to bear.



I wonder what we'll be like next year?


Instead of given us an English lesson you may like to inform us why after a 5 year rebuild we are 12 th


easy, didn't win enough games to get to 11th.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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jim wrote:
deano35 wrote:
The faith he is showing in the older guys is adorable BUT cmon David enough is enough and it's time we moved past them.
The only time we looked likely today was when Cunningham and Gibbons after 3 quarters were finally played through the midfield.
Shock horror who would have thought that would work.
Maybe just maybe they might use SPS in there or HF at least.
Today broke me.
Adelaide last on the ladder.
Adelaide lost 14 straight and we got embarrassed.
The scoreboard flattered us.


I'm just glad they hadn't lost 15 straight. That would've been worse.


Exactly what I was thinking when Hawks got beaten then again today, coz it was on the cards.

I'm going to have to talk to some elders to see if they can point the bones elsewhere or to lift a curse.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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For the first time this year I didn't watch the whole game. After half-time I went out to enjoy the Melbourne Spring sunshine. Season over.
To see the final result was disappointing but it could have blown out to a 10+ goal defeat.

My question. Is it worth watching the reply of the second half?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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The sad thing is 8 weeks ago I picked Adel to beat us, that's how flaky Carlton are.

Teague has no idea. There is no unique game plan.
In fact there is no evident game plan at all.

He has no idea how to stop run ons.

He has no idea how to get the players up for the start of games.

Cuners has a break out game in midfield , has one poor game after that Teague banishes him from the midfield.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:38 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Paddycripps wrote:
The sad thing is 8 weeks ago I picked Adel to beat us, that's how flaky Carlton are.

Teague has no idea. There is no unique game plan.




It doesn’t have to be unique but it does need to be executed- if half our inside 50s hit a target today then that would have been a start.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
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:garthp:
jim wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
Come back Gibbsy, we’ve got a minimum 16 vacancies!

Yet again, another (dis)honourable loss.

Yet again, a quarter and a bit of decent footy, the rest insipid, bruise free ball watching

Yet another unanswered 6-7 goal deficit allowed to occur before the team wakes up

Yet again zero tactical changes made by the coaching staff during gameplay

Yet again another match peppered with deplorable butchering of F50 entries

Yet again second to the ball, falling over on the spot, zero second efforts

Yet again no discernible structure, no hunger for the contest and far too many passengers

Does the Teague Train come with a 12 month manufacturer’s warranty? Not convinced by a long shot :mad:


Teague has years of shit to turn around. Was never happening in a season. 13-14 is a massive improvement on the previous 4-40. Just so much horrible shit that has to be turned around. He does need the side to take a step to finals next year though. Been similar to Ratten's first year.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
jim wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
I find it more Diabolic that we have a photo of Lachie O'Brian on front of this Forum.... Every time I log on, I almost throw up, remembering the pathetic recruitment that continues on and on and on......

Paddy Dow- pick 3
O'brian- Pick 10


Do those two players look like a top 10 to you?? They won't even make it to my local footy team....Get rid of them both... Skinny useless Skeletons


Never sure about O'Brien. We wrecked Dow. Was good for a season and a bit but we gave him jobs he simply wasn't ready for. Needed lesser roles to develop.


Dow went backwards when we had our coaching change....

Same thing happened with SPS and Fisher....

O’Brien was closer to pick 50 (and not a very good pick 50) than pick 10 and the club are aware of that...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Posts: 1291
deano35 wrote:
WOW wrote:
The most important things I wanted to see this year was a marked improvement in our second tier running/midfield players such as Dow, O’Brien, Cunningham, Fisher, SPS & Setterfield.

Apart from Setterfield, it just has not eventuated.

Our rebuild will be a failure if they don’t start improving quickly.

If you are going to hang your hat on rebuilding through early and more picks through the draft, then we have failed if these players don’t develop to the standard expected to win premierships.


Tell me how they are supposed to develop when ALL are played out of position.
Fisher, Cunningham, Gibbons and Dow have played more forward then Midfield
SPS in defence has been absolutely wasted and his development gone.
It took 17 rounds to finally play Walsh in the middle. His first 12 weeks on a wing were average but he is a superstar and tried to make it work. Setterfield should be played off half Back as an intercept player or 70% forward swapping with Cripps in the middle.
O'Brien just a wasted year and is no where


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It’s not like we have an elite and deep midfield....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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deano35 wrote:
The faith he is showing in the older guys is adorable BUT cmon David enough is enough and it's time we moved past them.
The only time we looked likely today was when Cunningham and Gibbons after 3 quarters were finally played through the midfield.
Shock horror who would have thought that would work.
Maybe just maybe they might use SPS in there or HF at least.
Today broke me.
Adelaide last on the ladder.
Adelaide lost 14 straight and we got embarrassed.
The scoreboard flattered us.


Agree Deano. That display today should never be accepted. That was disgraceful. Our offield leaders should be asking the hard questions.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:02 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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We lack system and cattle.

I'm turning over assistant coaches this offseason given the plethora of coaches on the market.

Give me a forwards coach, give me a defensive coach and a development coach to help Power and a specialist kicking coach.

For cattle we need a number of outside midfielders with footspeed and we need to move on some of the great servants of the club and get back to the job of winning a flag not trying to wallpaper over the cracks.

I think this year was a mistake, I've said before the board lost their nerve and moved to win now v win a flag.

The attempt to win now has just made us a middle of the road team and frustrated everyone of our fans..

The worst moment for me today was in the last qtr when we got some back of goal vision with Adel attacking and saw 9 v 6 their way and not a single reinforcement heading our way. The realisation hit me of how far behind the best teams we are tactically, we are playing one on one footy down back too often, not layers of defence.

In summary, I think I would give Teague a new team of coaches and one more season to show he has the goods. Other teams like Fremantle went past us in the 2nd half of the season with game plan. Also telling is statistically we are nowhere in the stats that measure premiers.

CB


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Coach B wrote:
Give me a forwards coach, give me a defensive coach and a development coach to help Power and a specialist kicking coach.

Also telling is statistically we are nowhere in the stats that measure premiers.

CB

Yep, and a coach that teaches mids how to deliver to forwards.

I've posted these key stats elsewhere...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36994

Carlton has the LOWEST UNCONTESTED POSSESSION COUNT in the competition!

Carlton also has the lowest % of total possessions as Uncontested.

Carlton is 2ND LOWEST FOR HANDBALLS

Carlton is WORST FOR GOALS FROM INSIDE 50s. (19%)

Carlton is 2ND WORST FOR TOTAL POSSESSIONS

Tragically, we ARE getting the ball in... we are still 4TH FOR INSIDE 50s

but...

NINTH for Marks Inside 50!

So much wasted delivery.
It's like mids and forwards live on different continents!

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Last edited by CC1961 on Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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CC1961 wrote:
Carlton is WORST FOR GOALS FROM INSIDE 50s. (19%)

Early in the year we were one of the best in this area.

Since the bye it has gone to complete shite.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:24 pm 
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John Nicholls
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For the first time ever, I cut my membership card today. Went out for a bike ride at half time, with tears in my eyes. TEARS.

Losing is one thing. Lack of pride...... not good enough. Shattered.

Won't be watching next week. Need some time.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:25 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7830
Yeah, that's a pretty telling stat at the best of times. But especially since the fall away has been so significant.


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