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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1573
GWS wrote:
keogh wrote:
If we all looked back over the posts we have written over the years we would be embarrassed by some of them
Myself included
But there were many of you buoyed by the Saints win last year.

A bit premature
At the end of the year where are we on the ladder is where we are at in terms of the other 17 teams
No matter what people’s opinions are on whatever the ladder position doesn’t lie.
Particularly this year with home ground advantage often a zero factor and no playing 5 teams twice.

Yesterday’s loss didn’t surprise me at all
Imo
We overate players
We hand over generous contracts to some
Many players are 2 one dimensional ( Docherty is a great example)
We were pathetic in the last 30 minutes because we are simply not good enough
Recruiting and List Management
That’s my opinion


This time last year we'd won two games.

This year we've won six.

So last year we were bottom end at this point and this year we're mid table.

What exactly is your point?

Did you think we'd go from 18th to first in a year?


I prefer to compare Teague's stats at Carton.
His W/L ratio is about the same as it was for him in 2019, we haven't gone forwards.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:09 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 4752
Paddycripps wrote:
GWS wrote:
keogh wrote:
If we all looked back over the posts we have written over the years we would be embarrassed by some of them
Myself included
But there were many of you buoyed by the Saints win last year.

A bit premature
At the end of the year where are we on the ladder is where we are at in terms of the other 17 teams
No matter what people’s opinions are on whatever the ladder position doesn’t lie.
Particularly this year with home ground advantage often a zero factor and no playing 5 teams twice.

Yesterday’s loss didn’t surprise me at all
Imo
We overate players
We hand over generous contracts to some
Many players are 2 one dimensional ( Docherty is a great example)
We were pathetic in the last 30 minutes because we are simply not good enough
Recruiting and List Management
That’s my opinion


This time last year we'd won two games.

This year we've won six.

So last year we were bottom end at this point and this year we're mid table.

What exactly is your point?

Did you think we'd go from 18th to first in a year?


I prefer to compare Teague's stats at Carton.
His W/L ratio is about the same as it was for him in 2019, we haven't gone forwards.

Exactly
Refer to my previous post
The lack of midfielders coming through is a concern


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:54 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:18 pm
Posts: 326
frank dardew wrote:
Good measured post Blue Champion
Hear, hear!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 392
we are to slow we need to inject some pace /speed into the team priority is the midfield and then our backline sps plowman and simmo and docherty slow need to fix this for 21 .


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:51 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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jamespul65 wrote:
we are to slow we need to inject some pace /speed into the team priority is the midfield and then our backline sps plowman and simmo and docherty slow need to fix this for 21 .


This was supposed to come from Dow and O'Brien - at this stage neither of these picks can be classified as a success, happy to give them more time but no more than another season to step up.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 6515
Paddycripps wrote:
GWS wrote:
keogh wrote:
If we all looked back over the posts we have written over the years we would be embarrassed by some of them
Myself included
But there were many of you buoyed by the Saints win last year.

A bit premature
At the end of the year where are we on the ladder is where we are at in terms of the other 17 teams
No matter what people’s opinions are on whatever the ladder position doesn’t lie.
Particularly this year with home ground advantage often a zero factor and no playing 5 teams twice.

Yesterday’s loss didn’t surprise me at all
Imo
We overate players
We hand over generous contracts to some
Many players are 2 one dimensional ( Docherty is a great example)
We were pathetic in the last 30 minutes because we are simply not good enough
Recruiting and List Management
That’s my opinion


This time last year we'd won two games.

This year we've won six.

So last year we were bottom end at this point and this year we're mid table.

What exactly is your point?

Did you think we'd go from 18th to first in a year?


I prefer to compare Teague's stats at Carton.
His W/L ratio is about the same as it was for him in 2019, we haven't gone forwards.


You expect us to? You expect this suddenly leap forward to entrench us in the 8 so quickly? Really?

12-12, 24 games, essentially played just over a real season. Ratts won 10 in his first year and didn't have top contend with this type of year that favors the very established sides with high established structures. Takes alot of work to get to that level of structure unfortunately otherwise we'd entrenched in the 8. Bit hard to work on it this year as you can only work with 8 players at a time on the training track. Many forget that. This year is highly advantageous to very established sides for that reason, as Hodge said this morning. Sides with ingrained structures. It's why the Pies can forever miss top players but not miss a beat making GF's and PF's with a number of good ones missing. We are still working to establish that and not alot of chance to improve on it on the training track.

Be thankful we are talking finals still, even if we miss out, rather than the no.1 draft pick.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:11 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 4752
Jim
McAdam looks like a player Judging by this year

I assume you watch other games
I bet Sos or anyone else on our recruiting staff didn’t know who he was
Hopefully Austin learns from the clubs past mistakes And looks over the minor leagues with a fine tooth comb

We had him only because Adelaide wanted him so we could get the Gov
We gave away two more potential mids on top of this because we gave away 2 picks in the 20s

SOs’ legacy is turning to faeces
The signs were there in 2018 that our midfield needed more depth

Poor recruiting trading and list management kills ya in the end


Last edited by keogh on Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Jim
This year is the same for everyone
Treloar and Sidebottom out and we were pants in the midfield
Says where we are sadly lacking


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:18 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Martin was pathetic
He is meant to be in the middle
Daicos made him look second rate


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:13 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5189
Location: Melbourne
Keogh, I think you are fighting a bit of a straw man argument here, I don’t see much evidence internally from the club or externally with our own supporters who think we are any better than what we are.

We have some good talent, some holes and also some unknowns.

The trick is now to build on it, after 2012 we got Malty who destroyed anything remaining good in the list. We don’t want or need to do that again.

I think where we are now we look to do trades and get in free agents to strengthen the side on a case by case basis. All of Zac Williams, Papley and Crouch should be looked at and would help us.

Setterfield has certainly improved, whether he ends up being a gun remains to be seen but his trajectory has been good, and his tackling numbers have been great.

Plowman does have some limitations but is generally very solid.

If I or others were overrating us wouldn’t of we been expecting finals? We are about where I expect us to be and know for us to improve further it won’t just happen, we all knew we lacked midfield depth start of season, that hasn’t changed.

With many of our younger ones, like Dow and O’Brien they’d want to be showing something soon otherwise they will be out of the system within a year or 2.

Bit rough to say we are worse than last year and only compare to 2nd half of last year. Does that mean we should be top 4?

But overall i think to get better we need missing pieces which don’t exist on the list currently.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Would you give Plowman a 3 year deal?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Three hour deal would be too long.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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jim wrote:
This year is highly advantageous to very established sides for that reason, as Hodge said this morning.



Heard him speak, was very favourable to Carlton

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5189
Location: Melbourne
keogh wrote:
Would you give Plowman a 3 year deal?


I think on the list of our issues that is very low.

I’m fine with Plowman really, seems he’s a whipping boy whenever we lose though for some.

I’m sure he’s not on huge money and if not with us he’d be on an AFL list in 3 years time somewhere.

Polson getting a 2 year deal in 2018 is way more confusing to me.

Also the extended deals we got for LOB and even Cuningham, though I think the logic was to try and get some continuity in the list and they wouldn’t be on big bucks, and if they are no good by the end of their contracted time we can delist or trade.

Most of the other younger ones we still need to sift through.

At least we are competitive now so will be more attractive to trade and free agency targets.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:51 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 14041
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Martin was pathetic
He is meant to be in the middle
Daicos made him look second rate


Thats not true.

Martin got blocked for that special daicos goal in traffic.
Martin was on the last line of defence...not as a forward.

Martin is a fantastic player. Period.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:34 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 392
i want to ask our defence coach how coll manage to get 3 easy goals from front and centre and the other how can they leave mr undroppable(plowman ) on stephenson for so long pace was always going to get LP.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:17 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14801
jamespul65 wrote:
i want to ask our defence coach how coll manage to get 3 easy goals from front and centre and the other how can they leave mr undroppable(plowman ) on stephenson for so long pace was always going to get LP.


What a surprise. After a month of exceptional form, Plowman was undroppable. :lol:
He didn't have a great game but he only conceded 2 goals when the delivery was lace out. Perhaps your expectations are a bit unrealistic.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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jamespul65 wrote:
i want to ask our defence coach how coll manage to get 3 easy goals from front and centre and the other how can they leave mr undroppable(plowman ) on stephenson for so long pace was always going to get LP.



That’s because we don’t have a small lock down defender on our list.


List being the operative word here - management would be the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 392
collingwood game plan to good/ successful for our team.They highlighted a weakness in our defence plowman v stephenson who is to quick and left space open for stephenson to lead into .(blame our team defence
to help lachie but it didn't come).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:21 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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So not Plowman’s fault that Stephenson too quick for him.

So fault of match committee/coach for going with that match up then.


Please then tell us what type of player is a Plowman best suited to, there are quite a few of us on this forum that would like to know.


:thumbsup:

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Message to “you know who you are” - my name is not Chris or Carrot and I’ve been happily married for 31 years and still going strong.


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