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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:25 am 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Hopefully the idea is with these additions and the return of Newman & Marchbank it allows SPS to play in midfield from here on in. The reason he was drafted in the 1st place.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:21 am 
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Robert Walls

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Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:22 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:44 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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hope he finds some rough diamonds with our later picks


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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jamespul65 wrote:
hope he finds some rough diamonds with our later picks


That's what he's known for.

Bring home the bacon Nick.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
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Was he at the dogs when they got Caleb Daniel with pick 40 something?
I believe it was the pic we gave them for Liam Jones as we expected a 3rd rounder as compo for losing Waite.
Instead those clowns at afl house gave us nothing.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Have we sacked him yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Well said ABNS.

Still significant concerns over the midfield, especially given Cripps may depart for WA after the 2021 season.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:49 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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Top midfield doesnt guarantee a flag though. Collingwood, WCE and Bulldogs have better midfield than Richmond and Geelong imo its all about team synergy and right players to execute game plan is more important I think. We get the bal into our forward 50 alot and havnt completed plays due to delivery into forward 50 Zac and Saad will go a long way to fixing that with neck break speed.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:06 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Walsh wrote:
Top midfield doesnt guarantee a flag though. Collingwood, WCE and Bulldogs have better midfield than Richmond and Geelong imo its all about team synergy and right players to execute game plan is more important I think. We get the bal into our forward 50 alot and havnt completed plays due to delivery into forward 50 Zac and Saad will go a long way to fixing that with neck break speed.


...assuming there are any forwards within the forward 50 when Saad puts it in there. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14802
SurreyBlue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 13313
Location: threeohfivethree
Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.


Yeah but we would have denied them pick 8!

That’s the real bitch.

Best thing I ever learnt in business was to worry about my own shit and not obsess about what competitors were doing.

A few in here would enjoy life a whole lot more if they could learn that.

_________________
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

H.L.Mencken (1920)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
GWS wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.


Yeah but we would have denied them pick 8!

That’s the real bitch.

Best thing I ever learnt in business was to worry about my own shit and not obsess about what competitors were doing.

A few in here would enjoy life a whole lot more if they could learn that.

Hang on, everyone seems happy with both the recruits including myself, and I'm not even mildly concerned about Essendon* getting 8, they will just Parish and Francis it anyway.

What some and myself are saying, and this is something also good to think about from a business sense, is always extract the maximum value from your assets. There is no harm in discussing and having different opinions on whether that was accomplished or not.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:28 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 726
GWS wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.


Yeah but we would have denied them pick 8!

That’s the real bitch.

Best thing I ever learnt in business was to worry about my own shit and not obsess about what competitors were doing.

A few in here would enjoy life a whole lot more if they could learn that.


Spot on.
For the first time in a long time we got our targets in the trade period. I was happy that we had the courage to get our deals done early enough and not have to be drawn into what others were likely to do.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:04 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14802
toddkurnski wrote:
Hang on, everyone seems happy with both the recruits including myself, and I'm not even mildly concerned about Essendon** getting 8, they will just Parish and Francis it anyway.

What some and myself are saying, and this is something also good to think about from a business sense, is always extract the maximum value from your assets. There is no harm in discussing and having different opinions on whether that was accomplished or not.


Did Stephen Wells get maximum value for pick 30 by selecting a 32 year old Shaun Higgins? I wouldn't think so yet Geelong are being lauded as one of the biggest winners of there trade period. Why? Because they got their targets. Just like we did. Failing to get Tom Papley quite possibly cost us a finals campaign this year. That's the difference one player can make and the impact a failed outcome can have.
We went in with a strategy. We came out with the players we wanted, 2020 second and 3rd round draft picks to use and all of next years selections intact. How anyone can find fault in that amazes me.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:08 am 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:32 pm
Posts: 456
GWS wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I also want to make it clear that I am happy overall with our haul, particularly that we were able to get 2 really good players who each fill a need, and maintain our full deck for next year's assault on a gun midfielder.

But that said, I believe we played our hand too early, sacrificed any power we had in negotiations and unnecessarily left ourselves with no remaining currency to be a player in the final crazy moments where other clubs made us look like amateurs.

It's a feeling not unlike having a scrappy win over opposition you should've thrashed.

Agree with this. 2 very good players and we have come a long way from the Tutt and Fasolo days. Actually getting in quality so not complaints there.

But it just feels like there was more meat on the bone this year.

Did we not fully understand how much shit the Pies were in? If not, why not?
Saad had walked out on the Cheats, was uncontracted, why did we refuse to get in the media and continuously talk about our superior leverage in that situation? Give the trade a sense of inevitability which is what Port ended up doing and paid just about the right price. It just seemed like a case of not wanting to walk a player through the draft or PSD two years running.

Anyway, we are much stronger next year. Anything less than finals will be a disappointment so there is expectation now. I know how ell this team deals with expectation...


Another nice summary. :clap:


How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.


Yeah but we would have denied them pick 8!

That’s the real bitch.

Best thing I ever learnt in business was to worry about my own shit and not obsess about what competitors were doing.

A few in here would enjoy life a whole lot more if they could learn that.


I remember reading about this psychology experiment. There’s you and one other person. You have two options. Option 1 - you get given $20 and the other person also gets $20. Option 2 - you get given $30, but the other person gets given $40. Most people chose option 1 even though they were materially worse off than if they chose option 2.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:29 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Blue Vain wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Hang on, everyone seems happy with both the recruits including myself, and I'm not even mildly concerned about Essendon*** getting 8, they will just Parish and Francis it anyway.

What some and myself are saying, and this is something also good to think about from a business sense, is always extract the maximum value from your assets. There is no harm in discussing and having different opinions on whether that was accomplished or not.


Did Stephen Wells get maximum value for pick 30 by selecting a 32 year old Shaun Higgins? I wouldn't think so yet Geelong are being lauded as one of the biggest winners of there trade period. Why? Because they got their targets. Just like we did. Failing to get Tom Papley quite possibly cost us a finals campaign this year. That's the difference one player can make and the impact a failed outcome can have.
We went in with a strategy. We came out with the players we wanted, 2020 second and 3rd round draft picks to use and all of next years selections intact. How anyone can find fault in that amazes me.

Pretty sure I was just told not to worry about what competitors were doing... I care as much about what Wells has done as what Dodoro got. I can see your point of view, get in, get what you want, get out and look to the finals in 2021.
Blue Vain wrote:
How anyone can find fault in that amazes me.
A shame that you can't acknowledge that others just see it differently.

Go Blues.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:33 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8607
Blue Vain wrote:
How is it a nice summary?
Firstly, how can we walk him to the PSD when the Bombers had already stated they'd take him? No doubt other times like the Kangas would have jumped at him as well.
Secondly, had we taken him in the ND, we would have paid more than we did. At least we got some change from pick 8 doing the trade. Nobody involved in the industry is saying we've overpaid. Yet some posters here can't let it go.


I agree, the PSD would have been a gamble. I also doubt very much * would have taken him but North or Hawks would have. It would have been up to the Saad camp to make sure they didn’t. Definitely a gamble. IMHO, National Draft was ridiculous talk. Never going to happen. As for the industry talk, well I’ll be nice and not repeat how I feel with the * cheer leaders.
On our trading, Saad in isolation, we overpaid. Pick 8 for Saad with a small change is overpaying.
The club might have been pleased to pull the trigger, but it doesn’t mean we didn’t overpay. I would have held on as much as possible and made * sweat. We had no other deals and we should have held firm for longer. I also don’t believe the bulldust being thrown around, that we couldn’t downgrade our pick 8. Maybe in the end there wasn’t a suitor, but I don’t, for a minute believe all the talk of * trumping us. I would have actually forced that upon them. These are the same guys that wanted Dunkley, made him nominate, and then wouldn’t deal appropriately. :garthp:
Pick 30 went for Fogarty and small upgrades. Can’t say we overpaid or didn’t and hopefully the recruiting team know more about this kid. Time will tell. My gut feel, he isn’t worth a round 2 pick but we’ll see.
Overall our first 2020 2 picks went for Saad and Fogarty. Fogarty will have a big say if we get value. Saad will most probably hold his end of the bargain.
That’s it from me. Enough already.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:15 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14802
SurreyBlue wrote:
Overall our first 2020 2 picks went for Saad and Fogarty. Fogarty will have a big say if we get value.


I don't believe that's looking at the selections in their entirety. We had a slide of picks but we ended up with a downgrade of our second and an upgrade of our 3rd round pick. So we still retain second and third round selections.

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