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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:25 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:51 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:13 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9296
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


Betts cooked? Almost single handedly won us two games this year.
Teague win loss is the same as Bolton? Wait..... what?

Wowee.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22926
Location: Bondi Beach
DesEnglish wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

You are suggesting Murphy offers this week in week out?
Murphy has been as consistent as a new draftee this year.

Murphy escapes scrutiny, and Murphy's output should not be compared with Cripps and Curnow who show more commitment to the contest than Murphy in spades.
I can understand how Cripps and Curnow earn their spots, and there's no argument any of the young players could take their spot, but they same can't be said about Murphy. I'm not an my own here, and the point is, Murphy divides Carlton fans: that alone says something that his time as an auto selection is almost up. I expect him to continue to provide leadership for the remainder of the year, but come the last few rounds, and finals are not on the radar, I wouldn't be surprised to see MC try other players, looking to the future, ahead of Murph.

Last week he scored a few coaches votes.
He had 22 disposals and 1 tackle; a few clangers in that too.
The way some supported Murphy's case here was that he was a revelation.
That was his best game for the year: its round 10.


Not disagreeing but I thought Murphy was important against *. For me that was his best game of the year


I thought apart from his horrible first quarter, Marc played really well the remainder of the Richmond game.
Having said that, I thought Fisher played better despite being injured. Fisher still hasn't returned to the team.

I thought Marc's round 2 game was his best thus far. After that, other than the North game, where he got coaches votes for his 20 odd possessions and 1 tackle, I thought he's been carried.

Marc's game against *Druggies I thought was valuable because he laid a couple tackles in the last, but before the last qtr he was ... lets say carried.

In our win against Doggies he was a no how, got smashed against Saints ....

Marc Murphy is selected by MC week in week out. That should say it all.

We have to accept that the MC selects him for a reason, so I support that, but it does raise more questions for me than it answers given Marc's form fluctuates on a weekly basis.

Maybe there's no competition for his spot because:

(a) Long list of injuries

(b) No Reserves competiton, and the fact no scratch matches doesn't give the MC

(c) The need for experience around the youngsters

(d) MC expect Marc to have an impact

The point is, despite being inconsistent and not racking up any numbers to write home about, he is selected by the MC, week in week out....and there's no one knocking the door down. Maybe because the MC is expecting 3 good practise games in a row, which Kennedy and Moore achieved, but there hasn't been much match practise for anyone the last few weeks. Maybe that's what is saving Murphy from ommission. Just sayin' its not all black n white, just because Murph is selected even when his form over a 3-4 week period doesn't warrant selection from my perspective.

I question Teague's suggestion that there's pressure on spots, because the team is virtually the same whether we win or lose, other than injury. Form doesn't seem to be playing a part.

I like the ballsy decisions Rhyse Shaw made with the Polec, even after he was voted best on ground in that game vs Carlton, when he had more disposals, tackles and metres gained than Murphy playing in a losing team. For those that don't know, Polac was dropped.

Teague says he likes to back his players. It seems he does this whether they are consistent or not. Thems the facts.

Come on Fisher, you can do it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22926
Location: Bondi Beach
robertbb wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


Betts cooked? Almost single handedly won us two games this year.
Teague win loss is the same as Bolton? Wait..... what?

Wowee.


Just get the ball to Betts and he will fight hammer and tong to make something of it.
Busts a gut week in week out.
Is the most dangerous forward we have when the ball is near him....imo

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
robertbb wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


Betts cooked? Almost single handedly won us two games this year.
Teague win loss is the same as Bolton? Wait..... what?

Wowee.


Betts has kicked multiple goals in just 2 games this year .
In the last 3 games he has kicked 1 goal.
In the last 2 games he has kicked 0 goals.

Teague's win loss ratio...

2019 54%
2020 44% (will be 40% by Sunday night)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 16658
Location: Left Cuckistan
Just as a risk management point of view shouldn't we be getting games into younger blokes? We are going to lose circa 900 games of experience, a good chance of it all in the one off-season. We are 12th, which is great, but we aren't winning it this year. I'm not saying throw everyone out and play all <50 game players each week - but lets look to the future and start cycling them through.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:32 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
Heavs wrote:
Just as a risk management point of view shouldn't we be getting games into younger blokes? We are going to lose circa 900 games of experience, a good chance of it all in the one off-season. We are 12th, which is great, but we aren't winning it this year. I'm not saying throw everyone out and play all <50 game players each week - but lets look to the future and start cycling them through.

Agreed Heavs.

Think this becomes almost a necessity as we move into 4-5 day breaks. All the other teams currently playing on such short breaks are managing players. For instance, Geelong was playing yesterday on a 4 day break (from their game vs West Coast) and a 5 day break from the game before that (vs Freo), they managed 3-4, only played Danger at one centre bounce and played Selwood basically the whole game on the wing. So I don’t think we’ll be losing that much given other teams will be doing the same thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:35 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Heavs wrote:
Just as a risk management point of view shouldn't we be getting games into younger blokes? We are going to lose circa 900 games of experience, a good chance of it all in the one off-season. We are 12th, which is great, but we aren't winning it this year. I'm not saying throw everyone out and play all <50 game players each week - but lets look to the future and start cycling them through.



Great question.

I would like to see that very soon. Once we decide finals are highly unlikely. LOB should come in for Simpson. Dow should come in for Newnes. Marchbank for Jones. Honey for Betts.

But the club won't do this. Too stupid they are and have been for 20 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


Obviously you have me confused with someone else. :?
I haven't said anything about Teagues record compared to his record last year.
I just said we've improved win/loss significantly from this stage last year. That's not a stat. It's a fact.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.

Now now.
You entered the discussion, said I was a keyboard warrior and then left it when it was obvious you were just clinging to Murphy's past status and not his present form.
Now we are a lynch mob. Playing the man is usually regarded a s poor excuse for a counter argument.
That's OK but please don't pretend otherwise. The thread speaks for itself.
He is playing and getting numbers that Fisher can get. He is a sacred cow at Carlton and nobody has the guts to tap him on the shoulder and say it's time.
Now he has a one year contract and we will have to play him every week or the list manager will look as though he has no idea.
It was a bad move.
I acknowledge your stuff by and large because you're usually pretty astute IMHO but on Murphy you are clinging on to his past like a social worker.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28221
I'd have thought the lesson from the last 20ys is that match committee list/selection decisions shouldn't automatically be considered correct decisions.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.

Now now.
You entered the discussion, said I was a keyboard warrior and then left it when it was obvious you were just clinging to Murphy's past status and not his present form.
Now we are a lynch mob. Playing the man is usually regarded a s poor excuse for a counter argument.


WTF?
I haven't personally attacked anyone in this thread. You're the one who quoted me this morning. :?
And when I bite back, you're playing the victim. Go and troll someone else.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:35 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 5816
david31 wrote:
Heavs wrote:
Just as a risk management point of view shouldn't we be getting games into younger blokes? We are going to lose circa 900 games of experience, a good chance of it all in the one off-season. We are 12th, which is great, but we aren't winning it this year. I'm not saying throw everyone out and play all <50 game players each week - but lets look to the future and start cycling them through.

Agreed Heavs.

Think this becomes almost a necessity as we move into 4-5 day breaks. All the other teams currently playing on such short breaks are managing players. For instance, Geelong was playing yesterday on a 4 day break (from their game vs West Coast) and a 5 day break from the game before that (vs Freo), they managed 3-4, only played Danger at one centre bounce and played Selwood basically the whole game on the wing. So I don’t think we’ll be losing that much given other teams will be doing the same thing.


Spot on Heav's............just gotta do it if only for fatigue management's sake let alone getting games into the young blokes..........reckon you illustrate that well Dave.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28221
Mickstar wrote:
david31 wrote:
Heavs wrote:
Just as a risk management point of view shouldn't we be getting games into younger blokes? We are going to lose circa 900 games of experience, a good chance of it all in the one off-season. We are 12th, which is great, but we aren't winning it this year. I'm not saying throw everyone out and play all <50 game players each week - but lets look to the future and start cycling them through.

Agreed Heavs.

Think this becomes almost a necessity as we move into 4-5 day breaks. All the other teams currently playing on such short breaks are managing players. For instance, Geelong was playing yesterday on a 4 day break (from their game vs West Coast) and a 5 day break from the game before that (vs Freo), they managed 3-4, only played Danger at one centre bounce and played Selwood basically the whole game on the wing. So I don’t think we’ll be losing that much given other teams will be doing the same thing.


Spot on Heav's............just gotta do it if only for fatigue management's sake let alone getting games into the young blokes..........reckon you illustrate that well Dave.


I reckon just play the best team available at the time, which doesn't automatically include some of the older blokes.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6315
Location: Bendigo
Who's on the injured list that would be ready to take Murphy's spot, ahead of Gibbons, Setterfield, Cunningham, Newnes & Kennedy?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:58 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
Young guys already got games and need more development on the track.

Murphy is not in our best 10-15 though might come close making it in our top 10 B &F he is for sure in our best 22.

Young guys need more development if you want to see us win games consistently and not hope they get 12 posessions and give a glimpse to the future, we have done that past four years - they got a taste now they need to step up to the plate and replace the guys who make up our bottom 10 in our best 22.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't stand in the way of the lynch mob with your facts Cecil. :lol:

Says BV who disappeared from the Murphy thread in the face of facts...


What are you waffling on about this time?
You obviously don't understand what facts are. Cecil provided actual data. You dont.
Marc Murphy is nowhere near the player he was but he is still best 22 IMHO . It seems the coaches have agreed to date as well and let's be honest, they're the ones who know. He'll get rested at times but it's up to others to keep him out.
The way I see it, we were dead last this time last year and at the start of this round we were 12th. That's with the 5th worst injury list according to the AFL. We're doing relatively OK but whenever we lose, doomsayers run to threads wanting people dropped, sacked etc and carrying on like the world is ending.

If you want me to hang around threads to pacify bedwetters after every loss , you're out of luck.


Talk about misleading stats. That was under Bolton. Under Teague our win loss ratio has not improved.

I do agree though we still need Murphy. But Betts is cooked and Simpson is in the marinating bowl.


Obviously you have me confused with someone else. :?
I haven't said anything about Teagues record compared to his record last year.
I just said we've improved win/loss significantly from this stage last year. That's not a stat. It's a fact.


Yes true but that was because we were a lame duck under Bolton who went too young in the midfield.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Crusader wrote:
Who's on the injured list that would be ready to take Murphy's spot, ahead of Gibbons, Setterfield, Cunningham, Newnes & Kennedy?


Dow.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Paddycripps wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Who's on the injured list that would be ready to take Murphy's spot, ahead of Gibbons, Setterfield, Cunningham, Newnes & Kennedy?


Dow.


Murph is so far ahead of Dow its not even funny.


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