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 Post subject: Patience wearing thin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:40 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
My patience is wearing thin, with this football club and its team.

The unrelenting standard of excellence that was once this club's mantra is a distant memory. It is a blur in my rear vision mirror.

Today, this club seems incapable of sustaining the type of hunger and desperation needed to win for more than a fortnight. Let alone for 6 months.

And this is not down to a young list. The team we have fielded of late has not been young relative to their competition.

This comes down to a lack of leadership and quality culture. And poor recruiting.

The unwillingness, unpreparedness to be switched on early in games, to attack the contest with true conviction, which started last year, testifies to the lowly standards that have become the new benchmark of this below par football club.

Only one player last night seemed to be intent on giving 100% ruthless effort across 4 quarters.

Too long this club has relied on a great warrior in the most important part of the ground, and this trend doesn't look like it will end anytime soon. While the team has been competitive in most games after taking annual leave in the first terms, the cold hard reality is we wont see a meaningful uptick in performance and results until we fix this problem in the centre of the ground.

We can't lure the player we need and we sure as hell can't draft one.

Tick tock tick tock before we know it Doc will be 30 and Cripps 27. And it will be time to start again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction. This is a comment based on 12 months and 12 years observation.

The two things this club simply must do in the coming months is address the inept starts to games and recruit someone to assist the captain in the middle of the ground. Teague has to demand consistency of effort early in games. If he can't do this he needs to be moved on. And the recruitment team, list management team etc need to land the Coniglio type. If they cant they too should be moved on. The Carlton I grew up with, that settled for nothing but success, would not put up with failure on these two fronts.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:46 am 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
yes, we were beaten badly but....
I think we need to give St Kilda abit of credit - from all the teams I have watched they are a top 4 contender.

Saints have been rebuilding their list since Dal Santo and Goddard were traded for picks.

Don't think we are too far away but some teams will be better than us at this stage of our cycle but expecting at least a 50% win rate this year.

We havent gone hard on the trade table yet -


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:55 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
This is not about last night, granted it was the straw that broke my back.

Since we got Judd we have relied too much on the one great ball winner.

And since we got Teague we have been slow out of the gates.

These problems simply must end otherwise the hapless form will not end.

I don't care for the moderate improvement we have made. I can see the bigger problems.

And have we really improved? We could be 14 on the ladder in a few days.

Who's going to help Cripps? Setterfield is a baby still, Martin lacks the body, and Cuningham lacks consistency.

Teague has presided over slow starts across 2 seasons. When will it end? He says last night was about fumbling. That's a nice piece of trickery. Bottom line is it was another slow start.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:15 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Paddycripps wrote:
My patience is wearing thin, with this football club and its team.

The unrelenting standard of excellence that was once this club's mantra is a distant memory. It is a blur in my rear vision mirror.

Today, this club seems incapable of sustaining the type of hunger and desperation needed to win for more than a fortnight. Let alone for 6 months.

And this is not down to a young list. The team we have fielded of late has not been young relative to their competition.

This comes down to a lack of leadership and quality culture. And poor recruiting.

The unwillingness, unpreparedness to be switched on early in games, to attack the contest with true conviction, which started last year, testifies to the lowly standards that have become the new benchmark of this below par football club.

Only one player last night seemed to be intent on giving 100% ruthless effort across 4 quarters.

Too long this club has relied on a great warrior in the most important part of the ground, and this trend doesn't look like it will end anytime soon. While the team has been competitive in most games after taking annual leave in the first terms, the cold hard reality is we wont see a meaningful uptick in performance and results until we fix this problem in the centre of the ground.

We can't lure the player we need and we sure as hell can't draft one.

Tick tock tick tock before we know it Doc will be 30 and Cripps 27. And it will be time to start again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction. This is a comment based on 12 months and 12 years observation.

The two things this club simply must do in the coming months is address the inept starts to games and recruit someone to assist the captain in the middle of the ground. Teague has to demand consistency of effort early in games. If he can't do this he needs to be moved on. And the recruitment team, list management team etc need to land the Coniglio type. If they cant they too should be moved on. The Carlton I grew up with, that settled for nothing but success, would not put up with failure on these two fronts.


Agree on most things here except the point on landing a big fish.
Doesn’t have a great success rate.
Think Franklin Dangerfield
Smart recruiting does


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:18 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1071
I can't help but wonder how we'd go if we still had Crazy Robbo running around for us. I'm sure Cripps would appreciate his physical presence.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:19 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
cortez wrote:
I can't help but wonder how we'd go if we still had Crazy Robbo running around for us. I'm sure Cripps would appreciate his physical presence.


Yes he would be quite handy right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:21 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
keogh wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
My patience is wearing thin, with this football club and its team.

The unrelenting standard of excellence that was once this club's mantra is a distant memory. It is a blur in my rear vision mirror.

Today, this club seems incapable of sustaining the type of hunger and desperation needed to win for more than a fortnight. Let alone for 6 months.

And this is not down to a young list. The team we have fielded of late has not been young relative to their competition.

This comes down to a lack of leadership and quality culture. And poor recruiting.

The unwillingness, unpreparedness to be switched on early in games, to attack the contest with true conviction, which started last year, testifies to the lowly standards that have become the new benchmark of this below par football club.

Only one player last night seemed to be intent on giving 100% ruthless effort across 4 quarters.

Too long this club has relied on a great warrior in the most important part of the ground, and this trend doesn't look like it will end anytime soon. While the team has been competitive in most games after taking annual leave in the first terms, the cold hard reality is we wont see a meaningful uptick in performance and results until we fix this problem in the centre of the ground.

We can't lure the player we need and we sure as hell can't draft one.

Tick tock tick tock before we know it Doc will be 30 and Cripps 27. And it will be time to start again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction. This is a comment based on 12 months and 12 years observation.

The two things this club simply must do in the coming months is address the inept starts to games and recruit someone to assist the captain in the middle of the ground. Teague has to demand consistency of effort early in games. If he can't do this he needs to be moved on. And the recruitment team, list management team etc need to land the Coniglio type. If they cant they too should be moved on. The Carlton I grew up with, that settled for nothing but success, would not put up with failure on these two fronts.


Agree on most things here except the point on landing a big fish.
Doesn’t have a great success rate.
Think Franklin Dangerfield
Smart recruiting does


I didn't mean to imply a big fish.

Sydney are an example, up until recently anyhow of a club that had about a handful of quality ball winners. They weren't all big fish. 8/10 players at worst but not all the top top bracket.

If we get Wines, will it turn out to be a good recruit or another failure out of desperation (see McGovern)?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:39 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
Walsh wrote:
yes, we were beaten badly but....
I think we need to give St Kilda abit of credit - from all the teams I have watched they are a top 4 contender.

Saints have been rebuilding their list since Dal Santo and Goddard were traded for picks.

Don't think we are too far away but some teams will be better than us at this stage of our cycle but expecting at least a 50% win rate this year.

We havent gone hard on the trade table yet -


Even so. Switch on last night and we beat them


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:45 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
Paddycripps wrote:
My patience is wearing thin, with this football club and its team.

The unrelenting standard of excellence that was once this club's mantra is a distant memory. It is a blur in my rear vision mirror.

Today, this club seems incapable of sustaining the type of hunger and desperation needed to win for more than a fortnight. Let alone for 6 months.

And this is not down to a young list. The team we have fielded of late has not been young relative to their competition.

This comes down to a lack of leadership and quality culture. And poor recruiting.

The unwillingness, unpreparedness to be switched on early in games, to attack the contest with true conviction, which started last year, testifies to the lowly standards that have become the new benchmark of this below par football club.

Only one player last night seemed to be intent on giving 100% ruthless effort across 4 quarters.

Too long this club has relied on a great warrior in the most important part of the ground, and this trend doesn't look like it will end anytime soon. While the team has been competitive in most games after taking annual leave in the first terms, the cold hard reality is we wont see a meaningful uptick in performance and results until we fix this problem in the centre of the ground.

We can't lure the player we need and we sure as hell can't draft one.

Tick tock tick tock before we know it Doc will be 30 and Cripps 27. And it will be time to start again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction. This is a comment based on 12 months and 12 years observation.

The two things this club simply must do in the coming months is address the inept starts to games and recruit someone to assist the captain in the middle of the ground. Teague has to demand consistency of effort early in games. If he can't do this he needs to be moved on. And the recruitment team, list management team etc need to land the Coniglio type. If they cant they too should be moved on. The Carlton I grew up with, that settled for nothing but success, would not put up with failure on these two fronts.


Exactly! I am sick of pissing 4 points down the drain because we do not come ready and switched on. We're 8-8 with Teague, fine effort on the surface, but shit we should've won quite a few more if we brought the required attitude from the start. That's very annoying. We proved against Geelong we can match anyone when switched on, and I expect that attitude every week. Even last night we whittled back half the 6 goal lead we again gave up but again too late. If we come switched on to every game this year we'd be finals contenders at 4-1 or 3-2, but we don't always bring the required attitude.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
I am not a massive Malthouse fan but I do agree with him , I think It was him who once said there is no such thing as shoulda or coulda etc, you win or you lose, and at the end of the year the number of wins and the spot on the ladder is how good or bad you are. Teague's inability to get the team up early is a massive red cross for him across 2 seasons.

Look Carlton fans need to stop making excuses. That's a losers mentality. We have become used to poor performance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:09 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
jim wrote:
Walsh wrote:
yes, we were beaten badly but....
I think we need to give St Kilda abit of credit - from all the teams I have watched they are a top 4 contender.

Saints have been rebuilding their list since Dal Santo and Goddard were traded for picks.

Don't think we are too far away but some teams will be better than us at this stage of our cycle but expecting at least a 50% win rate this year.

We havent gone hard on the trade table yet -


Even so. Switch on last night and we beat them


See my last post.

We didn't turn up. That is all that matters.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1890
Let’s cut to the chase, we are a loser club

Until we establish a winning culture, we will continue to remain in the wilderness

I also don’t think we have the list that will take us to a premiership

Too many weaknesses in the middle

Still relying on Curnow and Murphy as part of our premier midfield is an indictment on our recruiting


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 Post subject: Patience wearing thin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 1:26 am
Posts: 7974
Location: Melbourne
“Wearing”? I’m at worn stage. Nothing I see gives me hope. We keep repeating our errors, with little sign of improvement. We don’t have a brand other than “below average”. Our skills are no better.
And I’m expected to keep paying my membership for the same old.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
If I hear '16 flags' once more from a Carlton fan, to quote Wallace "I'll spew up". 25 long years and counting.

_________________
"I had to eat"


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:17 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
Paddycripps wrote:
My patience is wearing thin, with this football club and its team.

The unrelenting standard of excellence that was once this club's mantra is a distant memory. It is a blur in my rear vision mirror.

Today, this club seems incapable of sustaining the type of hunger and desperation needed to win for more than a fortnight. Let alone for 6 months.

And this is not down to a young list. The team we have fielded of late has not been young relative to their competition.

This comes down to a lack of leadership and quality culture. And poor recruiting.

The unwillingness, unpreparedness to be switched on early in games, to attack the contest with true conviction, which started last year, testifies to the lowly standards that have become the new benchmark of this below par football club.

Only one player last night seemed to be intent on giving 100% ruthless effort across 4 quarters.

Too long this club has relied on a great warrior in the most important part of the ground, and this trend doesn't look like it will end anytime soon. While the team has been competitive in most games after taking annual leave in the first terms, the cold hard reality is we wont see a meaningful uptick in performance and results until we fix this problem in the centre of the ground.

We can't lure the player we need and we sure as hell can't draft one.

Tick tock tick tock before we know it Doc will be 30 and Cripps 27. And it will be time to start again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction. This is a comment based on 12 months and 12 years observation.

The two things this club simply must do in the coming months is address the inept starts to games and recruit someone to assist the captain in the middle of the ground. Teague has to demand consistency of effort early in games. If he can't do this he needs to be moved on. And the recruitment team, list management team etc need to land the Coniglio type. If they cant they too should be moved on. The Carlton I grew up with, that settled for nothing but success, would not put up with failure on these two fronts.

Appreciate the post - it sums up many of my thoughts about this club.

I think possibly the most disappointing thing is that I hoped the Geelong game would be a line in the sand. Where we have a mighty effort for 3 quarters and got over the line in the end. This is possibly the hardest road trip in footy the past 10-15 years and the numbers back that up. That game should have shown the players that when they’re prepared to give 100% effort for 4 quarters, they can beat anyone. However, here we are two weeks later after a completely heartless 1.5 quarters. Back to square one.

It’s iust not good enough. We’ve been through 15 years of crap as a footy club. And unfortunately there’ll be another 10 years of it if this club doesn’t find a way to be a consistent 4 quarter effort team. We can build a talented team but if we don’t have the intangible desire and hunger to win, it’s going no where. Pretty much every other team in the competition has found a way to get non negotiable effort out of their playing group. We need to find a way too. It’s not on one player or one coach or one recruiter. It’s on everyone within the 4 walls of the club. And it needs to change now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:48 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
I actually disagree with these posts but it may be because I am looking through navy blue glasses.

Have a look at what we have. And I am not talking about the oldies. Or rejects from other clubs such as Newman, Newnes even though they are servicable.


Forwards: McKay, TDK, Kennedy, Harry, JSOS, Martin, Fisher, Cuninham, Curnow C, Gibbons, Owies, BSOS.

Mids: Dow, O'Brien, SPS, Kemp, Walsh, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Ramsay, Philp, Cripps, Honey, Gibbons, Setterfield Cottrell.

Backs: SPS, Stocker, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, BSOS, Williamson.

Rucks: Pittonet, TDK.


These are the players I believe could be the future. There a lot of good players and decent prospects there. Just need to get games into them to find out.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
I actually disagree with these posts but it may be because I am looking through navy blue glasses.

Have a look at what we have. And I am not talking about the oldies. Or rejects from other clubs such as Newman, Newnes even though they are servicable.


Forwards: McKay, TDK, Kennedy, Harry, JSOS, Martin, Fisher, Cuninham, Curnow C, Gibbons, Owies, BSOS.

Mids: Dow, O'Brien, SPS, Kemp, Walsh, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Ramsay, Philp, Cripps, Honey, Gibbons, Setterfield Cottrell.

Backs: SPS, Stocker, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, BSOS, Williamson.

Rucks: Pittonet, TDK.


These are the players I believe could be the future. There a lot of good players and decent prospects there. Just need to get games into them to find out.

I agree that (subject to some tweaking) the raw talent is there. It’s now about continuing to develop that talent.

The questions I have are:
(a) do enough of the players in this group have a win at all costs mentality?
(b) are we developing these kids to have a win at all costs mentality?

Chris Judd said after retirement he was astounded by how different the expectations were walking through the door at West Coast and Carlton. I’m paraphrasing here, but he pretty much said at West Coast it was all about winning flags and at Carlton it was more about winning contracts and remaining on the list. This is my biggest worry. Are we demanding success and a win at all costs mentality of every player that walks in the door? This is what creates a ruthless culture. It’s between the ears. It’s got little to do with raw talent. If we demand anything less of our players, all the talent in the world will only take us so far.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
david31 wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
I actually disagree with these posts but it may be because I am looking through navy blue glasses.

Have a look at what we have. And I am not talking about the oldies. Or rejects from other clubs such as Newman, Newnes even though they are servicable.


Forwards: McKay, TDK, Kennedy, Harry, JSOS, Martin, Fisher, Cuninham, Curnow C, Gibbons, Owies, BSOS.

Mids: Dow, O'Brien, SPS, Kemp, Walsh, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Ramsay, Philp, Cripps, Honey, Gibbons, Setterfield Cottrell.

Backs: SPS, Stocker, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, BSOS, Williamson.

Rucks: Pittonet, TDK.


These are the players I believe could be the future. There a lot of good players and decent prospects there. Just need to get games into them to find out.

I agree that (subject to some tweaking) the raw talent is there. It’s now about continuing to develop that talent.

The questions I have are:
(a) do enough of the players in this group have a win at all costs mentality?
(b) are we developing these kids to have a win at all costs mentality?

Chris Judd said after retirement he was astounded by how different the expectations were walking through the door at West Coast and Carlton. I’m paraphrasing here, but he pretty much said at West Coast it was all about winning flags and at Carlton it was more about winning contracts and remaining on the list. This is my biggest worry. Are we demanding success and a win at all costs mentality of every player that walks in the door? This is what creates a ruthless culture. It’s between the ears. It’s got little to do with raw talent. If we demand anything less of our players, all the talent in the world will only take us so far.

You can develop that culture but it’s also part of a skills set that makes up a player
Look at Cuningham or McKay
Contrast them with Gibbons and Ed Curnow
You don’t need to be a qualified psychologist to spot the difference


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Good thread this
I’m in agreement with David :smoking:

I think we have a lot of talent and potential but question whether we have players that are mentally tough and have a win at all costs mentality .
The 5 games this season demonstrates clearly that this is the case .3 games out of 5 have had a holiday mentality for half the match.Cant trust them in Melbourne imagine how disengaged they will be after their sojourn up to the GC and Brisbane
May get cranked up in the 4th quarter rather than 10 minutes before the end of second

Very unlikely to rise up the ladder very far without these vital ingredients and has been a problem for 10 years -an indictment on our board executive coaches and players
Can’t understand why this group can’t or won’t take steps to rectify these deficiencies or are happy to be second best when they have talent

What an indictment the rest of the competition thinks we are too nice


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10059
Successful culture!! Off field leadership!! - you say!!

I ask again - who is our current day Wes Lofts? Who has the b@11$ to shake this club up and demand the change?


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