TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)

Agreed re Harry. The Waite traits of running under the footy and the pretend efforts for show frustrate.

Feel like the 3 talls works as Martin is playing taller as the medium lead out forward role. He's too good to be doing that role. Prefer Martin goes into the guts full time and you have Kennedy do that role instead, and TDK for Harry or you revert back to 2 talls and rotate Martin and Kennedy's snaps.

I've potted Walsh on here before this season, and another poor one. A lot of selfish attributes coming through. Would like one of the line coaches to sit down with him and instill the idea that just because you can get the ball doesn't mean you should call for it. One thing that he's panicking and rushing his decision making, its another that its largely from touches he's willingly gone and got.

I feel like there's a large element of "if he weren't pick 1, they'd have dropped him".

Marsh probably had the best game of his career up until half time and was a reasonable match up in theory for Plowman. Wasn't close till he rolled his ankle. Agree with Cornes. Limited. Is the team structure that much better for him being there instead of an extra runner?

Murphy poor for reasons already well summarised by Heavs. Two bloody good games before it.

Really liked Philp's game. Might offer more than Fisher in that role. I'd like to see Zac given a run in the role SPS isn't doing at the moment.

The lack of situational awareness from both the umpires and teammates when Cripps was deliberately smashed after every disposal, downfield free kick to no advantage, allowed Saints to get numbers back. Play on at least once. Make them question the tactic and we took the bait every time. No one enforcing either.

Are we talking about the same Marsh who had 10 touches and kicked a point?
Hardly a dominant display

Different look at Harry contribution

Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances:

• Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal
• Smooth gather, set shot
• Draws a free, advantage, goal
• Marks down the line, set shot
• FWD50 pressure
• Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Sydney Blue wrote:

2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy!
More impotent than important.

Sydney Blue wrote:

2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy!
More impotent than important.

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy!
More impotent than important.

If you torture the data long enough it will confess.
SydBlue makes a valid point and one I made two weeks ago: H is contributing in some less obvious ways and is learning the game after a number of interrupted years. I'm not happy with his output but we are a bit quick to pot him. How many quality inside 50s did we have? How often did he compete for the same ball as the other key forwards?
He needs to deliver more but it is Gov who really should be delivering more.

BigGartos wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy!
More impotent than important.

McGovern is well below standard but he's still providing double Harrys performance.

If nothing else, important that Kennedy gets rewarded - and is seen to be rewarded - for his consistent form in the 2s.
Fair to say he’d offer more than Harry’s output. He has shown he can kick goals and from all reports has improved his speed, so is another midfield rotation option.
Give the bloke a chance.

Author:	GMCbris [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
hated losing like we did, was very salty after the game

Author:	Rod Spooky Galt [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Agreed re Harry. The Waite traits of running under the footy and the pretend efforts for show frustrate. Feel like the 3 talls works as Martin is playing taller as the medium lead out forward role. He's too good to be doing that role. Prefer Martin goes into the guts full time and you have Kennedy do that role instead, and TDK for Harry or you revert back to 2 talls and rotate Martin and Kennedy's snaps. I've potted Walsh on here before this season, and another poor one. A lot of selfish attributes coming through. Would like one of the line coaches to sit down with him and instill the idea that just because you can get the ball doesn't mean you should call for it. One thing that he's panicking and rushing his decision making, its another that its largely from touches he's willingly gone and got. I feel like there's a large element of "if he weren't pick 1, they'd have dropped him". Marsh probably had the best game of his career up until half time and was a reasonable match up in theory for Plowman. Wasn't close till he rolled his ankle. Agree with Cornes. Limited. Is the team structure that much better for him being there instead of an extra runner? Murphy poor for reasons already well summarised by Heavs. Two bloody good games before it. Really liked Philp's game. Might offer more than Fisher in that role. I'd like to see Zac given a run in the role SPS isn't doing at the moment. The lack of situational awareness from both the umpires and teammates when Cripps was deliberately smashed after every disposal, downfield free kick to no advantage, allowed Saints to get numbers back. Play on at least once. Make them question the tactic and we took the bait every time. No one enforcing either.

Author:	keogh [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Rod Spooky Galt wrote: Agreed re Harry. The Waite traits of running under the footy and the pretend efforts for show frustrate. Feel like the 3 talls works as Martin is playing taller as the medium lead out forward role. He's too good to be doing that role. Prefer Martin goes into the guts full time and you have Kennedy do that role instead, and TDK for Harry or you revert back to 2 talls and rotate Martin and Kennedy's snaps. I've potted Walsh on here before this season, and another poor one. A lot of selfish attributes coming through. Would like one of the line coaches to sit down with him and instill the idea that just because you can get the ball doesn't mean you should call for it. One thing that he's panicking and rushing his decision making, its another that its largely from touches he's willingly gone and got. I feel like there's a large element of "if he weren't pick 1, they'd have dropped him". Marsh probably had the best game of his career up until half time and was a reasonable match up in theory for Plowman. Wasn't close till he rolled his ankle. Agree with Cornes. Limited. Is the team structure that much better for him being there instead of an extra runner? Murphy poor for reasons already well summarised by Heavs. Two bloody good games before it. Really liked Philp's game. Might offer more than Fisher in that role. I'd like to see Zac given a run in the role SPS isn't doing at the moment. The lack of situational awareness from both the umpires and teammates when Cripps was deliberately smashed after every disposal, downfield free kick to no advantage, allowed Saints to get numbers back. Play on at least once. Make them question the tactic and we took the bait every time. No one enforcing either. Plowman pick 3 2012 draft Marsh pick 77 2013 draft Both at their second clubs Recruiting is so important

Author:	doofdoof [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Are we talking about the same Marsh who had 10 touches and kicked a point? Hardly a dominant display

Author:	Rod Spooky Galt [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Arrived at second club with 3 other players for a late pick vs one of the last players added to an AFL list last year seems a more appropriate comparison. Unless you're potting GWS recruiting?

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36921	Page 8 of 9

Author:	keogh [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
doofdoof wrote: Are we talking about the same Marsh who had 10 touches and kicked a point? Hardly a dominant display You missed the point

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:	R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk Agree SB.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X 2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy! More impotent than important.

Author:	BigGartos [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Blue Vain wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X 2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy! More impotent than important. If you torture the data long enough it will confess. SydBlue makes a valid point and one I made two weeks ago: H is contributing in some less obvious ways and is learning the game after a number of interrupted years. I'm not happy with his output but we are a bit quick to pot him. How many quality inside 50s did we have? How often did he compete for the same ball as the other key forwards? He needs to deliver more but it is Gov who really should be delivering more.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Blue Vain wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X 2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy! More impotent than important. I didn't say I agreed with it . It was just how someone else saw it. If the best they can find is a 1.49 minutes in a 1hour long game then that basically says the whole story Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Author:	Blue Vain [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
BigGartos wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X 2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy! More impotent than important. If you torture the data long enough it will confess. SydBlue makes a valid point and one I made two weeks ago: H is contributing in some less obvious ways and is learning the game after a number of interrupted years. I'm not happy with his output but we are a bit quick to pot him. How many quality inside 50s did we have? How often did he compete for the same ball as the other key forwards? He needs to deliver more but it is Gov who really should be delivering more. McGovern is well below standard but he's still providing double Harrys performance.

Author:	redback [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Blue Vain wrote: BigGartos wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Different look at Harry contribution Harry didn't have the best night but he's so important to our structure. Involved in a few scoring chances: • Crashes pack, Blues get out & goal • Smooth gather, set shot • Draws a free, advantage, goal • Marks down the line, set shot • FWD50 pressure • Spoil leads to goal https://t.co/FexI8dJP4X 2 kicks, 1 mark, 1 tackle, 1 score involvement, 0 goal assists. 1 free against, 1 x 50 metre penalty against in 4 quarters of footy! More impotent than important. If you torture the data long enough it will confess. SydBlue makes a valid point and one I made two weeks ago: H is contributing in some less obvious ways and is learning the game after a number of interrupted years. I'm not happy with his output but we are a bit quick to pot him. How many quality inside 50s did we have? How often did he compete for the same ball as the other key forwards? He needs to deliver more but it is Gov who really should be delivering more. McGovern is well below standard but he's still providing double Harrys performance. below his own lofty standards

Author:	kennyhunter [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
If nothing else, important that Kennedy gets rewarded - and is seen to be rewarded - for his consistent form in the 2s. Fair to say he’d offer more than Harry’s output. He has shown he can kick goals and from all reports has improved his speed, so is another midfield rotation option. Give the bloke a chance.

Author:	Mickstar [ Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
A week is a long time in football.............Gibbons,Setterfield and Cunningham couldn't put two games together.Thats it in a nutshell to me.So long as the second tier players can't perform week in week out we are up against it.Not enough consistently contributing.Many hands make light work but i am afraid not enough want to put there hand up.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
I've re-watched the game with a calmer. cooler head and here are some thoughts. We weren't as bad as I thought. Some players had shockers but mostly I want to apologise to Docherty - not that he would care what I think. I was really harsh on him. Was again one of our better players and certainly didn't lower his colors. Martin is a revelation and will be great to watch over the next 5-10 years. Seriously classy and hopefully he keeps it up. Setterfield and Williamson are both building. They will have break out games soon. Some posters very, very harsh on Plowman. I think he is great. Having said that my thoughts haven't changed on McGovern or Ed Curnow. Newnes isn't adding much unfortunately, needs to go. Casboult and Jones had shockers. Casboult missed goal in the 1st was a killer. Cripps - just play the ball. Ignore everything going on around you and hopefully the umpires will start to pay those frees for you. Just play the ball - you're that good when you do and can't be stopped!!! Please get your kicking for goal right. Again missed a crucial in the 3rd. Our midfield rotations where better then I thought. Setterfield, Cuningham and Martin in particular in the center bounces were great to watch. Our backline with SpS and Simmo was monstered by the Aints players. They have some serious size on them compared to us. This is an issue that needs addressing. I feel if we can get Marchbank up and running that will allow Plowy and Willy to play on the smaller/mid size mids and alleviate the size difference. If we had kicked that goal late in the 3rd quarter when we had all the play, instead of them getting an easy one against the flow, this game would have ended differently and they will not beat us next time - as long as we come to play. It's obvious during the game we lose concentration and structure and the opposition punish us too easily. Must fix. Also, terrible start in the 4th quarter by us, which was disappointing and the umpiring, especially for some reason when the game was up for grabs late in the 3rd - horrendous against us. Anyway worth watching the game again with a cooler head. We aren't that far off.

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Author:	redback [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
kennyhunter wrote: If nothing else, important that Kennedy gets rewarded - and is seen to be rewarded - for his consistent form in the 2s. Fair to say he’d offer more than Harry’s output. He has shown he can kick goals and from all reports has improved his speed, so is another midfield rotation option. Give the bloke a chance. You're right bring in Kennedy but Harry needs a extended set of games and some coaching, mcgovern on the other hand needs to be shown he is a expensive senior recruit that needs to set the standard. No more excuses or pampering we are not babies anymore. If we need to gain some respect we need to drive our players to hate loosing and right now that doesn't seem to be the case unfortunately.

Author:	Waterman [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
Saints were to quick, to clean by hand and foot and to committed . They out pressured and out tackled us . We were chasing backsides all night , especially the first half .

Author:	jamespul65 [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R5: Carlton vs St Kilda (post match discussion)
i agree with waterman ,how many teams have beaten us because they are to quick /stronger than us ,happening for years .Our recruiters need to find strong quick players no more light weights.Eg how many goals are kicked because our tackles dont stick. For me nothing changed