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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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He's probably about to write an article bagging the cats...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:01 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Crippa wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:



Cripps Murphy Doc and Simmo stood by and let a shit side like Melbourne get 7 goals up.
They coast like Gibbs used to and only go when the going is easy.





There's three players in that list I would not describe as coasters.
They are all coasters been doing it for years.
I seriously thought Gibbs was a gun . He looked a Gun at Carlton despite the fact that we kept losing.
We just need to fix our start and we will be ok. Funniest thing you will hear all year.

At some point in the game doesn't matter if it is 1st quarter of last the opposition is going to turn things up and we will sit back and watch them

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Well that just demonstrates how different peoples perspectives can be and why that can cause arguments on here. I always thought Gibbs was an overrated lazy footballer with no desire / drive and i would never consider Cripps, Simmo and Doc as coasters. We agree on Murph but that’s about all.

The boring truth is probably somewhere in the middle.


I don’t think Murphy coasts at all.
He gut runs and works hard.
His weakness is that he has no strength in his shoulders - hasn’t had any strength in his shoulders for years and can barely lift his arms above his head. So he can’t tackle and looks slack when he pretends to tackle. But even with that deficiency, he still gets the ball a lot and mostly punishes with his delivery and vision. He stuffs up occasionally and that’s what many people focus on.
But that’s much better than a player who hardly gets the ball and then doesn’t do much when he gets it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
I've gone off Plowman big time. Reckon he brings nothing in terms of team play, run, creativity. Often beats an opponent which is great but needs to do more than that.


...and often is beaten by an opponent because....he lets them...when he's not aggressive, desperate enough to snuff out an opportunity. Does his job, and just stands around or jogs off. Would like him to use some of that god given athleticism to go hard and create another opportunity.

I like him, but he nods off way too much in marking contests. Is too casual. Not focussed on being switched on for 120 minutes. There's times to laugh and times to be serious. I wish he could be totally switched on throughout a footy match...Just the way it looks to me.

I know he can run lines and be the next hit up. He can run hard for over 100 metres, continuously creating an option, but I rarely see that these days.

Both he and Marchbank are amazing physical specimens who can run. Both have played the wings, but when playing defense, first thing is to snuff out their opponent.

Come on boys, lift.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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17th Premiership wrote:

I don’t think Murphy coasts at all.
He gut runs and works hard.
His weakness is that he has no strength in his shoulders - hasn’t had any strength in his shoulders for years and can barely lift his arms above his head. So he can’t tackle and looks slack when he pretends to tackle. But even with that deficiency, he still gets the ball a lot and mostly punishes with his delivery and vision. He stuffs up occasionally and that’s what many people focus on.
But that’s much better than a player who hardly gets the ball and then doesn’t do much when he gets it.


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Good call 17th.

Problem I have is the coaches put him in the coal face of the midfield square, and he's not physically made for that role. He's an outside player who knows how to find the ball.

Until we have a quality link player like Murph who can also lay a tackle and play midfield too, Murph stays....preferably on the outside.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 am 
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Robert Walls

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OUT: Lang, Newman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Lose the game we should have won....we will have an honourable loss here, 20-30points guaranteed.

Typical of this team.

Get over confident and start slow against Essendon* and the cycle continues.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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bondiblue wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
I've gone off Plowman big time. Reckon he brings nothing in terms of team play, run, creativity. Often beats an opponent which is great but needs to do more than that.


...and often is beaten by an opponent because....he lets them...when he's not aggressive, desperate enough to snuff out an opportunity. Does his job, and just stands around or jogs off. Would like him to use some of that god given athleticism to go hard and create another opportunity.

I like him, but he nods off way too much in marking contests. Is too casual. Not focussed on being switched on for 120 minutes. There's times to laugh and times to be serious. I wish he could be totally switched on throughout a footy match...Just the way it looks to me.

I know he can run lines and be the next hit up. He can run hard for over 100 metres, continuously creating an option, but I rarely see that these days.

Both he and Marchbank are amazing physical specimens who can run. Both have played the wings, but when playing defense, first thing is to snuff out their opponent.

Come on boys, lift.


I don't see it.
Plowman was beaten once in a one on one which is unusual. The other times on a lead, SOS wouldn't have stopped it with the delivery.
The other one on one contests, Plowman won, as he usually does. The only player Ive seen get hold of him recently is Membrey. Other than that, he wins his spot. There not too many Carlton players other than Weitering at the moment that we can almost guarantee he'll beat his opponents.

As for needing to do more than beat his man. I disagree. Doc and Simmo play the creative roles. We need someone who can shut down the oppositions best small/mid forward whilst the others can run off the lesser players. That's what Plowman does. Fritsch kicked 1 goal and had no goal assists. I'd take that every week.

I'd be far more worried about Samo who gets the ball but gets far too easily beaten by his man. The back mans primary job is to beat his opponent. His defensive craft is almost non existent.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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We would have been 10 goals down without Plowman in the first qtr.

He was the only one clean with the ball and doing his job.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
We would have been 10 goals down without Plowman in the first qtr.

He was the only one clean with the ball and doing his job.


IMO, he's a serviceable defender on the right matchup, but was made to look good by some of the weak performances of his team mates.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Rexy wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
We would have been 10 goals down without Plowman in the first qtr.

He was the only one clean with the ball and doing his job.


IMO, he's a serviceable defender on the right matchup, but was made to look good by some of the weak performances of his team mates.


Thought Plowman was ok and not one of our concerns. Take your point though. On the match day thread, people were getting stuck into Lang for doing nothing.
The fact that he did nothing to half time meant there were at least 10 players who were worse than him with their fumbling, turnovers, poor decision making etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Vain wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Anyone calling for Doc's axing needs to give their head a wobble.


Yep. It's absolute nonsense. The same as calls for Murphy to be dropped. Yes Murphy frustrates with his lack of physical presence but he was in our better half dozen. As for calls for Ed to be dropped. :lol: Absolute stupidity.
Same with Newnes. He went back to stabilise the defence when Newman went off and SPS was getting his pants pulled down. Sometimes its like people are throwing darts at a board.
Yes we had another horrible start but we've shown we can play very good footy. We just need more of it.
It was our poor conversion that killed us in the end. We had plenty of opportunities to win the game and we blew it. Some games accuracy wins you games (Bulldogs game last year) and sometimes you blow it. Unfortunately we shot ourselves in the foot.


Agree BV re conversion, accuracy.

We don't do the basics well: Intensity, disposal efficiency, goal kicking accuracy all below par.

BTW Murphy has recorded the grand sum of: 0 (zero) tackles over the first 2 rounds. That is zilch, nil, naught, nada, nought and sweet F*** all.

If his shoulders are bung then l struggle to comprehend how he can front up week in week out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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Rod Waddell wrote:

BTW Murphy has recorded the grand sum of: 0 (zero) tackles over the first 2 rounds. That is zilch, nil, naught, nada, nought and sweet F*** all.

If his shoulders are bung then l struggle to comprehend how he can front up week in week out.


that is a terrible stat.

that alone should be a non negotiable.

no matter who the player is, every player should have at least one, if not two tackles as a minimum, you dont get two you are on notice, you dont lay one tackle ... enjoy a stint in the reserves ...

effort is non negotiable, it doenst matter how fit you are, how skilled you are, every single player can commit effort ... if you arent, you are out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Selection table statements have very mixed results, most recently at Adelaide when they dropped Betts and Gibbs (yes, I do see the theme here... :yikes: ) but it didn’t help the performance. And it’s particularly difficult without a VFL comp to work through a deficiency or find some form.

Much better would be Docherty and Cripps and the leadership group making a statement to/with the players (eg. Geelong players telling Stevie J and Ablett Jnr to pull their fingers out) or on the field (eg. Hawthorn’s line in the sand game against Essendon*).

And Teague has been brilliant since day one at responding tactically on match day. Now he needs better planning to set the right matchups and mindset from the first ball up.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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OK Blues if by chance we happen to kick the first goal or couple of goals against Geelong then keep going ...... don't think that it's job done.
We can only hope :smile:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Banned

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Agree with the posters that say we need to make a statement - line in the sand type game and away from home

Club should not be worried about suspensions etc for this game providing this young team takes the field like winners and brawlers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
I've gone off Plowman big time. Reckon he brings nothing in terms of team play, run, creativity. Often beats an opponent which is great but needs to do more than that.


...and often is beaten by an opponent because....he lets them...when he's not aggressive, desperate enough to snuff out an opportunity. Does his job, and just stands around or jogs off. Would like him to use some of that god given athleticism to go hard and create another opportunity.

I like him, but he nods off way too much in marking contests. Is too casual. Not focussed on being switched on for 120 minutes. There's times to laugh and times to be serious. I wish he could be totally switched on throughout a footy match...Just the way it looks to me.

I know he can run lines and be the next hit up. He can run hard for over 100 metres, continuously creating an option, but I rarely see that these days.

Both he and Marchbank are amazing physical specimens who can run. Both have played the wings, but when playing defense, first thing is to snuff out their opponent.

Come on boys, lift.


I don't see it.
Plowman was beaten once in a one on one which is unusual. The other times on a lead, SOS wouldn't have stopped it with the delivery.
The other one on one contests, Plowman won, as he usually does. The only player Ive seen get hold of him recently is Membrey. Other than that, he wins his spot. There not too many Carlton players other than Weitering at the moment that we can almost guarantee he'll beat his opponents.

As for needing to do more than beat his man. I disagree. Doc and Simmo play the creative roles. We need someone who can shut down the oppositions best small/mid forward whilst the others can run off the lesser players. That's what Plowman does. Fritsch kicked 1 goal and had no goal assists. I'd take that every week.

I'd be far more worried about Samo who gets the ball but gets far too easily beaten by his man. The back mans primary job is to beat his opponent. His defensive craft is almost non existent.


Its not the end of the world. We only lost by a point.
Problem is, we lost after giving a head start of 42 points.

Fritsch scored 1 goal 4. We lost by 1 point.
Hence, I, like others look to areas we can improve in. Its just 1% here and 1% there.
I'm not far more worried by anyone in particular....other than Murphy playing an inside role.
Everyone needs to lift. Everyone is on notice from the supporters in 2020.

There's no way anyone, including SOS, could have stopped that first goal to Fritsch.
By no means was it Plowman's fault.
I'm not questioning the contests Plowman wins. I question the ones he loses.

Fritsch and Membey have similar attributes in size and marking ability.
I think he should be muscling up on those types more to put them off their line.
Its not just Fritsch and Membrey either. He gets beaten in the air too much for my liking.
I also believe, and Ive seen him do it in the past, is run to provide options when we have possessions.

The game is quick today, and its not left to Gorliias to make a run, give an option out.
Plowman, Jones, Weitering should all be running to create options when we have the ball, not just Simmo Doch and Sammo.
When they have the ball, we defend. When we have the ball, we become a nightmare with plenty of options.
Every backman's primary job is to beat his opponent, but what I'm saying is there's a team game to play after their opponent is beaten, and Plow is capable of creativity. He is an athlete.

Even in the 70's Full Backs like David Dench and Geoff Southby ran the ball after they beat their opponent. They were athletic KP's not gorillas who can't run.
Even Christou in the 90's was running off the backline to create options. Weitering had a shot at goal on Saturday.

Like I said, I'm glad to have Plow, but I'd like to see him and every Carlton player take some angry pills for the game, to attack the ball and man, with physical and athletic presence, just a bit more than the last 2 weeks.

Thank god Fritsch only kicked 1 goal 4 behinds, but then again, it wouldn't have made a difference to the final score.

Sammo had a mare of a day because that first mistake is the one we all remember. He made up for it in the end, but we all still remember his couple of early mistakes. I saw a few from Plow too. Maybe I'm being picky, but all those 1%ers will see us winning games with the list we have.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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ScottSaunders2 wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:

BTW Murphy has recorded the grand sum of: 0 (zero) tackles over the first 2 rounds. That is zilch, nil, naught, nada, nought and sweet F*** all.

If his shoulders are bung then l struggle to comprehend how he can front up week in week out.


that is a terrible stat.

that alone should be a non negotiable.

no matter who the player is, every player should have at least one, if not two tackles as a minimum, you dont get two you are on notice, you dont lay one tackle ... enjoy a stint in the reserves ...

effort is non negotiable, it doenst matter how fit you are, how skilled you are, every single player can commit effort ... if you arent, you are out.


...and then expecting Murphy to take on the bull Petracca ... the MC have to take ownership ... they picked him to play there.

Personally, I'd like to see a player who can't tackle play in the FP and hope his presence creates perceived pressure, unless everyone knows Murphy can't tackle.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Does anyone give us a chance next week against the Cats? :smoking:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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We need 2 smaller defenders this week. Willo to replace Newman and perhaps Setterfield to replace SPS in defence.
I'd push SPS to half forward and leave out Lang for Silvagni. SPS either doesn't have the intensity or defensive craft required to play defence IMO. Too often he lets his opponent get goal side and his effort to chase are below standard.
I'm tempted to give Harry the arse as I think we're too tall with Harry, Levi, McGovern and JSOS up forward but I can't see it happening.

Plowman Jones, Simpson
Williamson Weitering Docherty
Newnes Cripps Walsh
Gibbo Levi Martin
Eddie JSOS McGovern
Pittonet Ed Murphy

Setterfield (7th defender), Cuningham, SPS, Harry

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
We would have been 10 goals down without Plowman in the first qtr.

He was the only one clean with the ball and doing his job.


Slight exaggeration.

They scored virtually every time they went to the HF line .
7 shots to zip.

Plow was playing on the full back line.

He had 3 handballs in the first.
He nded with 5 HB's and 1 kick.
Ended the game with -26 metres gained ... well not gained but you know....
Never seen that before. What I can take from that is its not attacking.

He is an athletic specimen. Not an ounce of fat on him and he can run...really run.

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